Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[NJClaw]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

 

[Sweeper]

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game

I can't imagine anyone playing Decline: Overrated Shit for that long.

 

[catfood]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

 

[NJClaw]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

During the early game it was nothing impressive, but when you reach the last tier skills you get Rain of Arrows and Arrow Spray. I have never seen a single non-boss enemy survive Rain of Arrows with more than a bunch of HP left and Arrow Spray literally halved the boss' health in the last fight.

 

[catfood]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

During the early game it was nothing impressive, but when you reach the last tier skills you get Rain of Arrows and Arrow Spray. I have never seen a single non-boss enemy survive Rain of Arrows with more than a bunch of HP left and Arrow Spray literally halved the boss' health in the last fight.

Which version did you play?

 

[NJClaw]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

During the early game it was nothing impressive, but when you reach the last tier skills you get Rain of Arrows and Arrow Spray. I have never seen a single non-boss enemy survive Rain of Arrows with more than a bunch of HP left and Arrow Spray literally halved the boss' health in the last fight.

Which version did you play?

EE, I never reached high-tier skills with the original version.

 

[catfood]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

During the early game it was nothing impressive, but when you reach the last tier skills you get Rain of Arrows and Arrow Spray. I have never seen a single non-boss enemy survive Rain of Arrows with more than a bunch of HP left and Arrow Spray literally halved the boss' health in the last fight.

Which version did you play?

EE, I never reached high-tier skills with the original version.

Yeah, the only thing the archer was good for in the original was as a control monkey with the use of special arrows.

 

[Lacrymas]

I found the only piece of interesting lore in the entire game. There's a book in the library called a Pirate's Life (I'm translating from German, but it's probably that) and it's a sort of memoir from a ship's crew member. He tells the story of how someone had the idea of going to Cyseal to look for treasures, so they go there but discover that the laws are extremely restrictive and sketchy. One has to pay taxes for doing basically anything with one's ship and there's a catch-22 with the taverns, you have to pay a tax to go into taverns if you aren't a Cysealian but there's also a law that forbids non-Cysealians from going into taverns in the first place. So you end up in prison for paying taxes if someone rats you out to the watch. That's where the interesting part ends, but it would've been so much more engaging if that was now. There could've been an entire quest line made up only of that, how you deal with being a non-Cysealian and having to enter a tavern to get to Jake's murder scene. Maybe you shouldn't have been called by authorities, but sent here by your order without their approval, so the people distrust you and the authorities don't give you free reign over the case, so you not only have to pay taxes to get into the tavern, but also deal with people who will report you snooping around the crime scene.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Another missed opportunity.
Just reminded me how annoying the merchant's voice acting from Cyseal market were, there's at least two mods trying to fix it.

 

[catfood]

Another missed opportunity.
Just reminded me how annoying the merchant's voice acting from Cyseal market were, there's at least two mods trying to fix it.

NOT IN THE MOOD FOR CHEESE????????? LEL SO WHACKY AND WHISMICAL AMIRITE XD

 

[Lacrymas]

I've muted all voices and everything is so much better.

 

[NJClaw]

I've muted all voices and everything is so much better.

Without muting voices the game is literally unplayable.

 

[Lacrymas]

Here's another weird thing I'm noticing. If there's one game which is trying to force an agenda down your throat, it's this one. It's not a political agenda, but it's an agenda of how you are supposed to have fun. The game is populated with little things that show exactly how the devs thought what fun is and how you should have fun. It basically encourages you into a specific mindset. That being steal everything that isn't nailed to the ground, rob graves with glee, break and enter, bedazzle audiences so you can ruin a man's show, laugh at these backwater hicks, etc. It's very Tumblr-esque and I'm not exactly sure where they get this from. It's honestly strange and feels like a Saturday morning cartoon without the punchlines. In most RPGs, you can absolutely do these things, but they don't really push you to do them and don't expect this from you. It's kind of hard to explain.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Well, if it was this game's only flaw, we wouldn't have this conversation, would we ?

Their obsession with moving barrels around and poison/fire spreading on the ground and slowly killing the party is more problematic, not even talking about their morbid fascination for MMO mechanism.

 

[anvi]

MMO mechanism.

?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Cooldowns and items with levels ...
It feels like ranting to repeat that over and over again.

The unique items were almost a nice addition but you find a level 5 unique when you're level 9 and your level 8/9 items are already better.
Of course, you also found a level 10 unique but you can't use it.
You will use it, when you get to level 10 but by level 12, you'll get a slightly better rare item.

That shit is so retarded.

 

[Lacrymas]

You can use items with a higher level requirement, the weapons just have a higher AP cost then. I don't know why, but there you go. But yes, the itemization is moronic and MMOish.

 

[anvi]

MMO ish isn't a good description. Early MMOs especially had custom made items with no requirements or levels, items that became famous and I can still remember the name of them 22 years later. Later MMOs started using auto generated items that meant you got a whole new set of items every level and nobody even knows the names of anything they are wearing, but that isn't unique to MMOs and isn't essential either. And I wouldn't be surprised it originated in some other action RPG and not in MMOs.

Level requirements came along for a legitimate reason which was giving high level items to level 1 players to help them cheat/trivialize the game. This isn't needed in a single player game because you can't give items to other characters, but in a multiplayer game something is needed to stop people cheating, otherwise the game can lose its edge and appeal. None of this really matters, except for the auto generated items which makes items meaningless and less interesting. Going out of your way to get a sword that will stay with you for a long time is meaningful and fun. Getting several new items every level is meaningless and may as well just replace items with stat boosts on level up.

Also cooldowns are perfectly legitimate too. If you don't have cooldowns then everything can be used over and over then nothing can be powerful. No cooldowns = you can't have powerful abilities. Cooldowns add a tactical aspect that mean you have to save key abilities for key moments. Forget to use them and you are underpowered. Use them too much and you wont have it when you need it. Play smart and you can have something powerful to use when you are in trouble or fighting a big boss. That is a good thing.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm not familiar which game exactly used leveled items first, but even if it wasn't MMOs it's they that popularized that. There is zero reason to have level-gated items in a single player game (outside of hack and slashers obviously). If you don't want people to have end game gear by lvl 1, don't give them access to end game gear on lvl 1. Instead of cooldowns, you can have casting times, which is much better and you can more easily balance powerful abilities without encouraging rotations. And that's one of the reasons cooldowns are bad, they encourage MMO-like rotations every fight.

 

[Ninjerk]

Did Diablo do that or did they just stat-gate items? IDR.

 

[anvi]

I'm not familiar which game exactly used leveled items first, but even if it wasn't MMOs it's they that popularized that. There is zero reason to have level-gated items in a single player game (outside of hack and slashers obviously). If you don't want people to have end game gear by lvl 1, don't give them access to end game gear on lvl 1. Instead of cooldowns, you can have casting times, which is much better and you can more easily balance powerful abilities without encouraging rotations. And that's one of the reasons cooldowns are bad, they encourage MMO-like rotations every fight.

This isn't single player though, there is some multiplayer component which seems kinda popular. I don't see why it would matter if people want to play through it with end game items though, there is no competitive element so it shouldn't matter if they cheat or not. Casting times isn't really enough. Like in my favorite MMO there are abilities like Lay on Hands and Harm Touch which are hugely powerful spells but they can only be used every 2 hours or so, some are only once per day. You couldn't do that with cast times.

I think hatred of rotations is also kinda misplaced. For a start, you are doing rotations in most RPGs anyway, including Baldurs Gate or whatever else. Cooldowns or not, it is still fireball everything, magic missiles, heal tank, repeat. The main reason I quit Kingmaker in chapter 3 or something is because of this, every fight was identical and boring. I don't think cooldowns have much to do with this, I think the problem is shallow combat, class design, spell design, and encounter design. If some enemies are immune to fire or magic or something, then you would need to use different spells. If some battles are a big single target, some are multiple enemies, some enemies hit hard, some hit weak but flurries, some use bows, some use magic, some get healed, etc.. then you can't really have rotations because you need to react to different things happening.

 

[Lacrymas]

None of that is true. Even though there is a multiplayer component, you can't give a lower level character high level gear with your other high level character. That's why they exist in MMOs and hack and slashers. Casting times are definitely enough for non-MMOs/hack and slashers. Imagine a 3-round casting time in a TB game, or a 10+ second cast time in a real time game. You are quite open to interruption and it needs set-up to do correctly. Cooldowns do indeed create rotations because there is always an optimal way to handle cooldowns, sometimes that optimal way is obvious like going from longest to shortest. This does inevitably lead to rotations unless there are no damaging abilities at all (healers also have rotations but not in that sense and they are way more flexible). MMOs have proven that when you are a DPS, your role is to find a way to maximize your rotation uptime on bosses, however that may be. I have never caught myself doing rotations in a game without cooldowns. How do you do rotations in the BGs?

 

[Lacrymas]

I noticed a bug just now, I stole (of course) a dagger but it didn't appear in my inventory.

 

[Lacrymas]

After finally leaving Cyseal like 9 hours and a half in, the game does pick up when you start fighting the undead. Here's what I would've done though - instead of approaching Cyseal from the other coast, I'd have pitted us against the undead from the very beginning and we'd have to fight through them to reach Cyseal. The structure would've been a bit different of course, and you'd have to recruit Jahan and Madora among the ruins, but that would fix the pacing issue from the start. After that I'd have made Cyseal bigger and be the center hub of the entire game, instead of making little settlements in every big map. The city would've been divided into parts depending on your progress in the main quest so that you aren't compelled to go through and pick up every quest in Cyseal, that is what grinds the action to a halt. It's really hard not to notice how just a bit of structural cleaning up could've made this game a thousand times better, both in terms of writing and pacing.

 

[anvi]

None of that is true. Even though there is a multiplayer component, you can't give a lower level character high level gear with your other high level character. That's why they exist in MMOs and hack and slashers. Casting times are definitely enough for non-MMOs/hack and slashers. Imagine a 3-round casting time in a TB game, or a 10+ second cast time in a real time game. You are quite open to interruption and it needs set-up to do correctly. Cooldowns do indeed create rotations because there is always an optimal way to handle cooldowns, sometimes that optimal way is obvious like going from longest to shortest. This does inevitably lead to rotations unless there are no damaging abilities at all (healers also have rotations but not in that sense and they are way more flexible). MMOs have proven that when you are a DPS, your role is to find a way to maximize your rotation uptime on bosses, however that may be. I have never caught myself doing rotations in a game without cooldowns. How do you do rotations in the BGs?

If you can't give items then why have item restrictions? They must have it for a reason. Casting 1 spell for 3 rounds sounds shitty, cooldowns are better. Game designers of those games know better than you. Most MMOs with cooldowns leave you open to interruption as well. And again, you can only mash a routine from longest to shortest if the combat is shallow and stupid. Anything that requires thought means a routine is no use and not all MMOs even have them. If you are mashing out a 12345 routine then it is a bad WoW style game, but doesn't mean they are all like that and it doesn't mean the mechanics of cooldowns make every game work the same way.

Often the rotations are because of the abilities themselves, if one says "Blast the enemy with lightning for 20 damage and lowering their armor for 5 seconds" and another one says, "Does 20 physical damage, or 40 if their armor is lowered" then you obviously cast 1 then 2. These types of abilities are good, fun, interesting, deeper than most single player RPGs. Add synergy to abilities and make you think about what order to use things rather than just spamming your biggest attack in every fight. The problem is that if doing the most damage in the shortest time is the only consideration, then it degenerates into mashing 1234. But it doesn't have to be like that. My favorite MMO has immunities and resistances so mashing a routine would be bad if one of them fails to land. It also makes it so players have to be careful about the damage they do, too much will cause the enemy to turn on them instead of whoever it was fighting. And most important of all is the mana or stamina cost of abilities. You can do a lot of damage in a short time but it will use up a lot of mana and then you can end up dead if the fight drags on. So sometimes you need to use slower but more efficient abilities. Add in lots of target switching and needing to crowd control at any moment, and it gets a lot more interesting and makes a routine useless.