Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[jackofshadows]

The reason I'm saying this is because I'm not sure how this got popular. As RPG connoisseurs, we are used to a slow boil, but the normies aren't. So I'm at a loss, I'd have thought they would quit before they got to Jake's murder scene.

Maybe we are conditioned to meticulously go through every zone and hub to vacuum up quests, while normies do whatever they want and they don't care. That's absolutely a possibility

Compare that to Skyrim. Game is incredibly popular yet the fact that every city has tons of stuff hardly discourage any normie. They just do whatever float their boat and if it means to rummage through everything thanks to their OCD - fine! Besides, don't forget about coop. As was fairly mentioned in another thread - watching paint dry might be fun with a friend.

And if you're really curious - just watch some random youtube video where people playing DOS1 while having no clue about games in general, some girls for example and you get the idea perfectly.

 

[catfood]

So apparently a fast animations mod was released this week.

http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=664494#Post664494

Can someone confirm if this is a "nice but not fast enough" or if this is fast enough to get people to actually replay the game.

It' Is supposed to come with a multiple settings from 1.3x to 3.1x, with increasing numbers of warnings on what higher speeds will do to the game.


Also unfortunate EE only - no support for classic version.

Too little too late. Already beat the EE and I doubt I am ever going to touch this game ever again as I've already tried out every character type.

Lacrymas are you playing EE or original? What difficulty?

 

[Lacrymas]

EE, tactician. I'm not going with Epic Encounters for 2 reasons. The first one is that there's a lot of changes to skills and I'm sure they aren't going to be reflected in the tooltips of any other language than English. The second reason is I haven't played this game in 4 year and am not familiar with builds and such. I actually tried playing with Epic Encounters but I saw I needed to pick healing skills, and maybe a summon, with someone because the very first battle destroyed me in 2 turns.

Skimming through a let's play is actually a good idea.

 

[catfood]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

 

[NJClaw]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

 

[Sweeper]

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game

I can't imagine anyone playing Decline: Overrated Shit for that long.

 

[catfood]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

 

[NJClaw]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

During the early game it was nothing impressive, but when you reach the last tier skills you get Rain of Arrows and Arrow Spray. I have never seen a single non-boss enemy survive Rain of Arrows with more than a bunch of HP left and Arrow Spray literally halved the boss' health in the last fight.

 

[catfood]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

During the early game it was nothing impressive, but when you reach the last tier skills you get Rain of Arrows and Arrow Spray. I have never seen a single non-boss enemy survive Rain of Arrows with more than a bunch of HP left and Arrow Spray literally halved the boss' health in the last fight.

Which version did you play?

 

[NJClaw]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

During the early game it was nothing impressive, but when you reach the last tier skills you get Rain of Arrows and Arrow Spray. I have never seen a single non-boss enemy survive Rain of Arrows with more than a bunch of HP left and Arrow Spray literally halved the boss' health in the last fight.

Which version did you play?

EE, I never reached high-tier skills with the original version.

 

[catfood]

I just beat the EE on tactician. I had a party consisting of 3 mages and a sword&board guy. The first battle is actually the most difficult out of the entire game. The rest are a cakewak as long as you have a basic understanding of party building. For mages you pump int to max, for fighters str, and for rogues and archers dex. Then you add a bit of speed and con for extra AP and HP. That's it. Going up to 5 in skills isn't really worth it unless you want a specific talent. For example man-at-arms at level 5 will unlock a decent talent. I did not bother getting any mage skill up to 5. 4 pts are enough for one master level spell. It is all you need as they are quite powerful. Crafting is superfluous.

I can't imagine going through mid-to-late game without an archer. Bairdotr with Glass Cannon, Power Stance, Bully and Elemental Ranger was the only character dealing damage during my playthrough. Arrow Spray and Rain of Arrows are "instant win" buttons.

I had an archer when I played the original version and I was not impressed by the damage output. Maybe they made archers better in the EE.

During the early game it was nothing impressive, but when you reach the last tier skills you get Rain of Arrows and Arrow Spray. I have never seen a single non-boss enemy survive Rain of Arrows with more than a bunch of HP left and Arrow Spray literally halved the boss' health in the last fight.

Which version did you play?

EE, I never reached high-tier skills with the original version.

Yeah, the only thing the archer was good for in the original was as a control monkey with the use of special arrows.

 

[Lacrymas]

I found the only piece of interesting lore in the entire game. There's a book in the library called a Pirate's Life (I'm translating from German, but it's probably that) and it's a sort of memoir from a ship's crew member. He tells the story of how someone had the idea of going to Cyseal to look for treasures, so they go there but discover that the laws are extremely restrictive and sketchy. One has to pay taxes for doing basically anything with one's ship and there's a catch-22 with the taverns, you have to pay a tax to go into taverns if you aren't a Cysealian but there's also a law that forbids non-Cysealians from going into taverns in the first place. So you end up in prison for paying taxes if someone rats you out to the watch. That's where the interesting part ends, but it would've been so much more engaging if that was now. There could've been an entire quest line made up only of that, how you deal with being a non-Cysealian and having to enter a tavern to get to Jake's murder scene. Maybe you shouldn't have been called by authorities, but sent here by your order without their approval, so the people distrust you and the authorities don't give you free reign over the case, so you not only have to pay taxes to get into the tavern, but also deal with people who will report you snooping around the crime scene.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Another missed opportunity.
Just reminded me how annoying the merchant's voice acting from Cyseal market were, there's at least two mods trying to fix it.

 

[catfood]

Another missed opportunity.
Just reminded me how annoying the merchant's voice acting from Cyseal market were, there's at least two mods trying to fix it.

NOT IN THE MOOD FOR CHEESE????????? LEL SO WHACKY AND WHISMICAL AMIRITE XD

 

[Lacrymas]

I've muted all voices and everything is so much better.

 

[NJClaw]

I've muted all voices and everything is so much better.

Without muting voices the game is literally unplayable.

 

[Lacrymas]

Here's another weird thing I'm noticing. If there's one game which is trying to force an agenda down your throat, it's this one. It's not a political agenda, but it's an agenda of how you are supposed to have fun. The game is populated with little things that show exactly how the devs thought what fun is and how you should have fun. It basically encourages you into a specific mindset. That being steal everything that isn't nailed to the ground, rob graves with glee, break and enter, bedazzle audiences so you can ruin a man's show, laugh at these backwater hicks, etc. It's very Tumblr-esque and I'm not exactly sure where they get this from. It's honestly strange and feels like a Saturday morning cartoon without the punchlines. In most RPGs, you can absolutely do these things, but they don't really push you to do them and don't expect this from you. It's kind of hard to explain.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Well, if it was this game's only flaw, we wouldn't have this conversation, would we ?

Their obsession with moving barrels around and poison/fire spreading on the ground and slowly killing the party is more problematic, not even talking about their morbid fascination for MMO mechanism.

 

[anvi]

MMO mechanism.

?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Cooldowns and items with levels ...
It feels like ranting to repeat that over and over again.

The unique items were almost a nice addition but you find a level 5 unique when you're level 9 and your level 8/9 items are already better.
Of course, you also found a level 10 unique but you can't use it.
You will use it, when you get to level 10 but by level 12, you'll get a slightly better rare item.

That shit is so retarded.

 

[Lacrymas]

You can use items with a higher level requirement, the weapons just have a higher AP cost then. I don't know why, but there you go. But yes, the itemization is moronic and MMOish.

 

[anvi]

MMO ish isn't a good description. Early MMOs especially had custom made items with no requirements or levels, items that became famous and I can still remember the name of them 22 years later. Later MMOs started using auto generated items that meant you got a whole new set of items every level and nobody even knows the names of anything they are wearing, but that isn't unique to MMOs and isn't essential either. And I wouldn't be surprised it originated in some other action RPG and not in MMOs.

Level requirements came along for a legitimate reason which was giving high level items to level 1 players to help them cheat/trivialize the game. This isn't needed in a single player game because you can't give items to other characters, but in a multiplayer game something is needed to stop people cheating, otherwise the game can lose its edge and appeal. None of this really matters, except for the auto generated items which makes items meaningless and less interesting. Going out of your way to get a sword that will stay with you for a long time is meaningful and fun. Getting several new items every level is meaningless and may as well just replace items with stat boosts on level up.

Also cooldowns are perfectly legitimate too. If you don't have cooldowns then everything can be used over and over then nothing can be powerful. No cooldowns = you can't have powerful abilities. Cooldowns add a tactical aspect that mean you have to save key abilities for key moments. Forget to use them and you are underpowered. Use them too much and you wont have it when you need it. Play smart and you can have something powerful to use when you are in trouble or fighting a big boss. That is a good thing.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm not familiar which game exactly used leveled items first, but even if it wasn't MMOs it's they that popularized that. There is zero reason to have level-gated items in a single player game (outside of hack and slashers obviously). If you don't want people to have end game gear by lvl 1, don't give them access to end game gear on lvl 1. Instead of cooldowns, you can have casting times, which is much better and you can more easily balance powerful abilities without encouraging rotations. And that's one of the reasons cooldowns are bad, they encourage MMO-like rotations every fight.

 

[Ninjerk]

Did Diablo do that or did they just stat-gate items? IDR.

 

[anvi]

I'm not familiar which game exactly used leveled items first, but even if it wasn't MMOs it's they that popularized that. There is zero reason to have level-gated items in a single player game (outside of hack and slashers obviously). If you don't want people to have end game gear by lvl 1, don't give them access to end game gear on lvl 1. Instead of cooldowns, you can have casting times, which is much better and you can more easily balance powerful abilities without encouraging rotations. And that's one of the reasons cooldowns are bad, they encourage MMO-like rotations every fight.

This isn't single player though, there is some multiplayer component which seems kinda popular. I don't see why it would matter if people want to play through it with end game items though, there is no competitive element so it shouldn't matter if they cheat or not. Casting times isn't really enough. Like in my favorite MMO there are abilities like Lay on Hands and Harm Touch which are hugely powerful spells but they can only be used every 2 hours or so, some are only once per day. You couldn't do that with cast times.

I think hatred of rotations is also kinda misplaced. For a start, you are doing rotations in most RPGs anyway, including Baldurs Gate or whatever else. Cooldowns or not, it is still fireball everything, magic missiles, heal tank, repeat. The main reason I quit Kingmaker in chapter 3 or something is because of this, every fight was identical and boring. I don't think cooldowns have much to do with this, I think the problem is shallow combat, class design, spell design, and encounter design. If some enemies are immune to fire or magic or something, then you would need to use different spells. If some battles are a big single target, some are multiple enemies, some enemies hit hard, some hit weak but flurries, some use bows, some use magic, some get healed, etc.. then you can't really have rotations because you need to react to different things happening.