Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Lacrymas]

Oh, right, the summons... It almost feels like the AI is coded to attack them first, which makes them overly useful no matter their type.

in dos1 attributes were meaningful, what happened in dos2 ?

Not really. At least not in any practical sense. You still pump the attribute your skills use and after that speed is overly powerful compared to the others due to how the system works. Scoundrels are particularly broken due to that, huge speed bonuses (+movement and AP), coupled with Fast Track. Dipped with Men-at-Arms for Rage and Attack Stance, backstabbing a tripped enemy with Oath of Desecration = lol. That's without Lone Wolf or Glass Cannon. Maybe Rangers are the only ones for which perception is actually important, so if they want to "dual-class" they'd have to focus on 3 attributes instead of 2. Speaking of, CCing an enemy gives you 100% chance to hit them.

 

[jackofshadows]

Maybe Rangers are the only ones for which perception is actually important

Not really. Their own "farseer" buff (for 2 ap) compensates any THC issues. Moreover, dexterity becomes not that important for them again, thanks to this insane buff so player can either pump speed alone or perception for crit and starting ap (also it nice to have 10+ for spotting traps and treasure hunting).

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Lacrymas]

Not really. At least not in any practical sense.

if memory serves me right, each skill had attribute linked to it. Each skill had expected treshold to be met for 100% effectiveness. Pumping it past 100% was improving chances of landing statuses

Yes, but the skills are always tied to one attribute per category. Magic = INT, Scoundrel = DEX, etc. You are already pumping the skill that affects their THC anyway. If the different magic categories had different attributes attached to them, for example you need int to learn Aerotheurge spells but need Speed for THC, or int to learn Geomancy spell but strength for THC, it might make the open class system make more sense and the attributes have more utility. I really haven't had any issues landing CC by focusing on the main attributes either way.

 

[NJClaw]

Oh, right, the summons... It almost feels like the AI is coded to attack them first, which makes them overly useful no matter their type.

It feels like the AI is coded to attack summons first because it obviously is. I can't remember a single encounter where the enemy could attack my summons and decided not to. They really hate those spiders.

 

[whydoibother]

Oh, right, the summons... It almost feels like the AI is coded to attack them first, which makes them overly useful no matter their type.

It feels like the AI is coded to attack summons first because it obviously is. I can't remember a single encounter where the enemy could attack my summons and decided not to. They really hate those spiders.

More like the AI is coded to do damage where it would do the most damage. Your characters probably have higher dodge/armor/resistances/whatever. Also your summons are probably nearer the enemy, as you don't protect them as much. The AI just hits where it would hit the hardest, which often is your spiders.

 

[Lacrymas]

Maybe, but they can't think in context. They often attack headless Nick, but that makes him spray poison everywhere and heal himself, so they reduce their own damage to almost 0.

 

[whydoibother]

Maybe, but they can't think in context. They often attack headless Nick, but that makes him spray poison everywhere and heal himself, so they reduce their own damage to almost 0.

On high difficulty in DOS2 they do a lot of clever moves. Drinking a poison resistance potion, to go over 100% resistance, then walking into poison to heal himself. Hitting his fire immune friend with fireballs to heal them. Teleporting people into followup AoE. Hitting frozen comrades with fire to wake them up.
You know, things all the players do, but you don't expect the AI to do.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm done with Hiberheim and like half of Luculla, the EE has changed them quite a lot in terms of difficulty. It's still fairly easy but not mindlessly so due to immunities, mobs having quite a lot of health and abilities etc. The mobs' stat progression is wonky as all hell, the goblins in Luculla have upwards of 1k+ health, which makes the environmental interactions which do specific amounts of damage feel weak. The only onr which doesn't is flaming surface + throw spores from Geomancy because all 5 spores explode and it makes their cloud explode as well. The itemization is one of the shittiest in existence. I constantly get +pick pocket or sneaking rings, which are useless, invis does the same thing and the economy is broken from the start. I managed to get 1 belt with +dual wielding and everything else has been +resistances or the ones I've mentioned, so I've been stacking HP. If the mobs are attacking someone, you are doing a bad job, so it's whatever.

 

[NJClaw]

Oh, right, the summons... It almost feels like the AI is coded to attack them first, which makes them overly useful no matter their type.

It feels like the AI is coded to attack summons first because it obviously is. I can't remember a single encounter where the enemy could attack my summons and decided not to. They really hate those spiders.

More like the AI is coded to do damage where it would do the most damage. Your characters probably have higher dodge/armor/resistances/whatever. Also your summons are probably nearer the enemy, as you don't protect them as much. The AI just hits where it would hit the hardest, which often is your spiders.

Well, that's a shitty AI nonetheless. Even the last boss with two hundred AP decided to waste his turns killing my useless skeletons instead of going for the characters that were actually doing something.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[NJClaw]

I'm done with Hiberheim and like half of Luculla, the EE has changed them quite a lot in terms of difficulty. It's still fairly easy but not mindlessly so due to immunities, mobs having quite a lot of health and abilities etc. The mobs' stat progression is wonky as all hell, the goblins in Luculla have upwards of 1k+ health, which makes the environmental interactions which do specific amounts of damage feel weak. The only onr which doesn't is flaming surface + throw spores from Geomancy because all 5 spores explode and it makes their cloud explode as well. The itemization is one of the shittiest in existence. I constantly get +pick pocket or sneaking rings, which are useless, invis does the same thing and the economy is broken from the start. I managed to get 1 belt with +dual wielding and everything else has been +resistances or the ones I've mentioned, so I've been stacking HP. If the mobs are attacking someone, you are doing a bad job, so it's whatever.

Aren't you swimming in +Int/Speed/Dexterity/Perception/Strength stuff?

 

[Lacrymas]

Not really. All the ones i've gotten are equipped. I am getting suffocated with +pickpocket and sneaking.

 

[whydoibother]

Well, that's a shitty AI nonetheless. Even the last boss with two hundred AP decided to waste his turns killing my useless skeletons instead of going for the characters that were actually doing something.

An AI that tries its best to win is bad for video games. Imagine a game of Civilization where the AI just wants to win. The objectively best move is to all ally against the player and bumrush him at turn 1. Works every time. But thats a bad game. Or a Counter Strike bot, that headshots you ever time one pixel of your head is within sight.
The goal isn't for it to be powerful, its to be fun. Summons apparently are meatshields. Its a rule you can work with. Its a mechanic you can build on. Its fine. If you don't like it - don't use it.

 

[NJClaw]

Well, that's a shitty AI nonetheless. Even the last boss with two hundred AP decided to waste his turns killing my useless skeletons instead of going for the characters that were actually doing something.

An AI that tries its best to win is bad for video games. Imagine a game of Civilization where the AI just wants to win. The objectively best move is to all ally against the player and bumrush him at turn 1. Works every time. But thats a bad game. Or a Counter Strike bot, that headshots you ever time one pixel of your head is within sight.
The goal isn't for it to be powerful, its to be fun. Summons apparently are meatshields. Its a rule you can work with. Its a mechanic you can build on. Its fine. If you don't like it - don't use it.

I agree that a "perfect" AI that knows how to win and does it everytime can't be fun, but there are more possible scenarios than: "the AI is invincible and always does the right move" and "the AI is completely retarded and it attacks a meatshield everytime it sees one".
There needs to be a fine line to balance things, while right now it seems to me that the weight of "I want to attack summons" is a bit too much: against Braccus Rex you see four big bosses ignoring your entire party to bully a corpse and a spider. It's fun, but it's a bit retarded.

Then if using summons is supposed to be easy mode okay, but it still feels strange.

 

[Lacrymas]

So, I don't really know what to think. I'm at the end of Luculla, just got into Leandra's private chambers (not as hot as it sounds) and on the way towards the Phantom Forest. Luculla feels a little bit too big for what it offers, it isn't as tight as Cyseal and a lot of it is filler. What's up with the Immaculate village in which you can't do anything? Except fight, I guess. There's also the goblin village, but you can't trick the goblins into giving up the blood stone in the totem without killing them all (one of the tougher fights), so it also feels like a straight-up fight in disguise. The rift with the demons was a cool idea and you get a bajillion xp if you smash the blood stone while engaging the big one, but getting to the blood stone required only a passed check with the Immaculates. Speaking of checks, why are we given the 3 options always? They feel less like skill checks and more a random dice roll. Which they are. There's also the fact it's always the best option to pass the checks and then attack anyway, you get more xp that way.

I guess my overall opinion of this game is that it's a popcorn one stretched to bursting, it's playable and technically competent but disjointed and doesn't make much design sense. Cyseal is unlike anything else in the entire game, including encounter design, atmosphere, and writing. It badly needs an editor, we get the same information said in different ways constantly, you ask the same questions to everyone and 95% of the writing doesn't matter. I read it because it's good practice for my language skills, but had I played it in English I would've stopped reading what they were saying in the middle of Cyseal, just like I don't read anything in the PoE franchise. I can't imagine what this would be with voice acting had I left it on. The gameplay is also kinda weird. The way ambush interacts with % damage increases is hilarious because it double dips. I get over 2500 damage with a single ability (that knife storm thing from Scoundrel) by being buffed with Oath of Desecration and Rage, making me one-shot everything which isn't immune to damage, and even when I'm not using that ability, my normal ones do 1000+ damage per hit so I kill everyone in a single round anyway. The other hilarious thing is how you can gulp down potions of healing one after the other, making them better than any other healing ability because they are cheaper in terms of AP.

On the positive side, I haven't stopped playing it yet (although I kinda wanted to in the middle of Luculla) and there are some cool visuals here and there, especially the river of blood in the Immaculate village. They also stop trying to be funny at one point, which is always a plus. We'll see what Phatom Forest has in store.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Lacrymas]

afaik this is due to sven philosophy of never locking player out of options/clues, regardless of actions. There is option to learn specific piece of info through steal/talk/kill. If you do all 3 you read same thing 3 times

I don't mean quest information, just general lore. You can ask pretty much everyone what they think about the Immaculates and the non-Immaculates would say "they are a creepy blood cult which carry out sacrifices OooooOoOooOO", and the Immaculates would say "The Goddess is great! Step on my throat, mommy!" in different wordings. There is no world-building or even any lore to speak of, just the same thing over and over again.

 

[JDR13]

afaik this is due to sven philosophy of never locking player out of options/clues, regardless of actions. There is option to learn specific piece of info through steal/talk/kill. If you do all 3 you read same thing 3 times

I don't mean quest information, just general lore. You can ask pretty much everyone what they think about the Immaculates and the non-Immaculates would say "they are a creepy blood cult which carry out sacrifices OooooOoOooOO", and the Immaculates would say "The Goddess is great! Step on my throat, mommy!" in different wordings. There is no world-building or even any lore to speak of, just the same thing over and over again.

You can't expect every non-essential NPC to have unique dialogue. It's like most RPGs in that way.

Also, not sure how you can say there's hardly any lore. There's tons of lore in this game.

 

[DraQ]

Also, not sure how you can say there's hardly any lore. There's tons of lore in this game.

There is lore and there is lore.

 

[Nano]

There is lore and there is lolre.

 

[Lacrymas]

I got to Hunter's Edge and I'm losing my will to live. Why is everything in this game so similar. The booby traps have lose their novelty tens of hours ago, the blood cult just isn't interesting but we keep talking about them ad nauseam, the combat encounters are same-y, and the combat system isn't all that good because you rely on ol' reliables. The skills that do damage are all a variation on a theme, you just through them as the cooldowns allow you to. I dunno, I'm thinking of stopping here and maybe finish this game at a later time, if ever.

 

[Silly Germans]

I got to Hunter's Edge and I'm losing my will to live. Why is everything in this game so similar. The booby traps have lose their novelty tens of hours ago, the blood cult just isn't interesting but we keep talking about them ad nauseam, the combat encounters are same-y, and the combat system isn't all that good because you rely on ol' reliables. The skills that do damage are all a variation on a theme, you just through them as the cooldowns allow you to. I dunno, I'm thinking of stopping here and maybe finish this game at a later time, if ever.

You haven't lost you will to post yet, certainly you will manage to go on.

 

[anvi]

I can't remember the names of the places but the last couple of bosses were pretty fun. But yeah the game is the same from about level 4 to the end of the game.