Game News Divinity: Original Sin Kickstarter Campaign Begins + Hands-on Preview at RPGWatch

[hiver]

I know there is. Unless they announce something special, which they have been avoiding up to now, they will reach 4 and change, if all goes well.
If not then 3.5 to 3,7 would be realistic.
Which isnt bad at all. In fact its pretty fucking great.

After the weekend they have five days left. And i dont think they should be especially trying for some records and super high numbers at all.

 

[hiver]

Yeah, also look at attempts to sell new IPs without info.

Guido Henkel, Chris Taylor? ring a bell?

I didnt think so.

Yeah, also that Project: Eternity thing.
Oh, wait...

You mean that Obsidian Baldurs gate - Planescape Torment thing?

mhm... sure.

 

[MicoSelva]

I know there is. Unless they announce something special, which they have been avoiding up to now, they will reach 4 and change, if all goes well.
If not then 3.5 to 3,7 would be realistic.
Which isnt bad at all. In fact its pretty fucking great.

After the weekend they have five days left. And i dont think they should be especially trying for some records and super high numbers at all.

I'm estimating it will gather around 4 - 4,5 mln in the end with people upgrading their pledges and late backers pledging just before the deadline.

On a bit of a sidenote, I do find myself wondering about the financial downsides of Kickstarting into tiers that are basically preorders. Thousands of people buying your game at 20$ has to hurt in the long run, when they could eventually be paying 60$.

I don't think these games were ever meant to sell for $60. At least not the digital copies.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do you already have some break-even in mind (numbers of sold copies) where you would call AoD a success?

Anything that would allow us to "stay in business", no matter how low, would be a success. As for the exact number, it's very hard to draw a line that would kill your dream and send you back to the corporate world.

 

[Zeriel]

On second thought, the low price point is probably why these things can never push much past 4M. At 20$, even crazy numbers like 80,000 backers just doesn't go that high in actual value. On the other hand... you probably are only getting so many people to spend money because it's a "great deal", so, eh. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Rake]

I was thinking 5 could be reachable but, thats out of the question now.

You think?

There's usually a pretty big spike in the end. I wouldn't rule anything out.

Yeah, also look at attempts to sell new IPs without info.

Guido Henkel, Chris Taylor? ring a bell?

I didnt think so.

Yeah, also that Project: Eternity thing.
Oh, wait...

Only P:E had a trully massive spike. To reach five millions Torment would require one milion in the last day. Too big i think.
As for P:E, while an original IP, it's still a spiritual successor to Planescape:Torment, Baldur's Gate 1+2 and Icewind Dale 1+2.
It had a brand name behind it.

 

[hiver]

On a bit of a sidenote, I do find myself wondering about the financial downsides of Kickstarting into tiers that are basically preorders. Thousands of people buying your game at 20$ has to hurt in the long run, when they could eventually be paying 60$.

Nobody would pay 60 bucks for these games.

But they wouldnt have been made at all without this. There would be nothing to sell.
Plus, not everyone needs to aim for the first week sales or scream disaster. Thats a mass market publisher model of business.
Look at last Lara. 3.5 million sold and the company is falling apart.

 

[Zeriel]

On a bit of a sidenote, I do find myself wondering about the financial downsides of Kickstarting into tiers that are basically preorders. Thousands of people buying your game at 20$ has to hurt in the long run, when they could eventually be paying 60$.

Nobody would pay 60 bucks for these games.

But they wouldnt have been made at all without this. There would be nothing to sell.
Plus, not everyone needs to aim for the first week sales or scream disaster. Thats a mass market publisher model of business.
Look at last Lara. 3.5 million sold and the company is falling apart.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I think the way they're doing it is the only way it could have been done without knowing the market for it. P:E especially had to make sure to drum up lots of business any way they could. Torment 2, though... it's in a bit of a different ballpark. They knew the demand was there. I guess it all comes down to calculations of how close they are to market saturation. If they really believe there is no customers left past the 60-65K backer point, then they have no incentive to spend man-hours on making pretty teaser images or outlining specifics when they can just sit back and let nostalgia dollars roll in. Then again, for all we know, they've got that 2D backgrounds stretch goal lined up for the last few days.

I'm with Vault Dweller in the personal anecdote department, though. I was positive about P:E, I liked it, but I wasn't utterly and completely sold into "MUST BUY, MUST PLAY THIS" mode until I saw that 2D render they threw up that convinced me they were actually trying to do a Temple of Elemental Evil, a Baldur's Gate, updated to modern hardware. Personal anecdotes can't be passed off as a general rule of thumb, though, so I'm willing to accept that I'm in the minority here.

 

[hiver]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I think the way they're doing it is the only way it could have been done without knowing the market for it. P:E especially had to make sure to drum up lots of business any way they could. Torment 2, though... it's in a bit of a different ballpark. They knew the demand was there. I guess it all comes down to calculations of how close they are to market saturation. If they really believe there is no customers left past the 60-65K backer point, then they have no incentive to spend man-hours on making pretty teaser images or outlining specifics when they can just sit back and let nostalgia dollars roll in. Then again, for all we know, they've got that 2D backgrounds stretch goal lined up for the last few days.

I'm with Vault Dweller in the personal anecdote department, though. I was positive about P:E, I liked it, but I wasn't utterly and completely sold into "MUST BUY, MUST PLAY THIS" mode until I saw that 2D render they threw up that convinced me they were actually trying to do a Temple of Elemental Evil, a Baldur's Gate, updated to modern hardware. Personal anecdotes can't be passed off as a general rule of thumb, though, so I'm willing to accept that I'm in the minority here.

Well, i didnt back PE at all. Because it was RTwP and because it had guns. But i surely intended to buy it after, if it turns out good.

My point is that the middle tier designer do not need to go for big money or big first week sales.
Thats an area of retarded mass market "greed over everything" idiotism business.

If the games are good, with Steam and GoG and all other outlets these days, thes will keep selling for years on word of mouth - and they dont pay anything back to some publisher at all.
At all.

As for InXile - there is always a need to present info and art, always.
They dont know how much potential backer is there as much as we dont.

Plus - they are not exactly trying to present their case into other markets at all. They cover only US and Europe through game media (spit) and rely on ... word of mouth and people doing marketing for them in Russia. Not to mention South America, China or India and other parts of the world.

 

[MicoSelva]

Nobody would pay 60 bucks for these games.

People are paying much, much more than this thorugh KS pledges, so it's not all net financial loss for the companies in the end. On the contrary.

 

[Brother None]

Dude, you're giving Brother None a heart attack with these statements.

Argh. Please don't pull me into this discussion, it's bad for my blood pressure.

But now that I'm here anyway...

VD: As total marketing/PR noobs, we were pretty happy with that video :l

It's a very good video. It's also too long for a Kickstarter video. Just one of those "rule of thumb" things, at least it's what we landed on ourselves from KS comparisons and experience, 6-7 minutes is a good "rule of thumb" max, we were already nervous about the length of the Torment video (WL2 was like 5:20, PE like 6:20). That's a detail though, so not much to worry about, I would've perhaps taken a bit out of the script to put forward towards an update, but that's a question of style to some extent, and as videos go I think you hit a ton of the right notes.

I don't want to sit here and tell you I know better tho. As you're likely finding out now you get a lot of that during KSs anyway, but if you guys happen to be lookin' for some extra feedback on specifics, feel free to hit me up.

 

[Zeriel]

The feedback will be: "YOU'RE WRONG!"

(I love that actor.)

 

[Arkeus]

On a bit of a sidenote, I do find myself wondering about the financial downsides of Kickstarting into tiers that are basically preorders. Thousands of people buying your game at 20$ has to hurt in the long run, when they could eventually be paying 60$.

A little bit of math shows that PE had an average of 55$ per backer on the KS. While, yes, lots of people payed the game much less than what it would cost at launch, it's also pretty clear that the KS itself doesn't work "At Loss".

 

[hiver]

Nobody would pay 60 bucks for these games.

People are paying much, much more than this thorugh KS pledges, so it's not all net financial loss for the companies in the end. On the contrary.

They are not paying for the game. Dont be dense.

This is - being a part of a grass roots movement, sticking it to the man. Giving a big FUCK YOU to publishers. Resurrecting a whole genre. Pure spite.
And the feeling that you were a part of that, even a part of the design in some smaller ways - since this is also a different culture or relationship between the gamer and designers.
Though Fargo is avoiding it as its a plague.

 

[tuluse]

On a bit of a sidenote, I do find myself wondering about the financial downsides of Kickstarting into tiers that are basically preorders. Thousands of people buying your game at 20$ has to hurt in the long run, when they could eventually be paying 60$.

No dev ever gets $60 a copy. They're lucky to get $5 per copy after everything's said and done. So by that perspective, kickstarters are way more efficient for a dev.

 

[Metro]

Re: pricepoints. The landscape of gaming is changing. You'll never be able to move product effectively at $60 -- not to a significantly sized audience. Even the AAA releases at $60 are usually sold with 20% preorder discounts and/or numerous other promotions where you get credit, money back, etc. Thus most games today max out at $40ish and then hit $20ish or lower within six months or so after their initial release.

 

[Infinitron]

From what I understand the Kickstarter games will be sold at 40-50 dollars. The traditional PC game price.

 

[BigWeather]

Nobody would pay 60 bucks for these games.

I'm a sucker for the physical tiers (much to my wife's chagrin -- my library is stuffed with Ultima, SSI, Infocom, etc. boxes) -- I've bought into each one of the major RPGs at those levels, so $100 for Wasteland 2, $250 for Project Eternity, $95 for Torment, $95 for Divinity. =/ I know, I know, a fool and his money... But I loves me some cloth maps!

 

[evdk]

But you're not buying the games per se, you are buying the chance for them being made. And also fat loot.

 

[BigWeather]

True, no regrets at all. It's so awesome that the games I grew up with are becoming viable again and seeing the fruits that Kickstarter is bearing seep into things like UbiSoft's M&M X is incredible.

 

[Coboney]

One thing I don't get is why all these companies act like they are suprised of the support for kickstarters. I can't imagine not having a very solid idea of your updates and such being a good idea as you're already scrambling to answer questions and put out more word that you need to write and speak walls of text.

I know Larian wasn't planning to launch for a week but this is just more of a general comment

 

[hiver]

ForkTong


Let me add something that may be useful, to other voices of wisdom here.

in addition to already mentioned things, like adjusting reward tiers and talking more about the editing tool,

Dont forget to pimp that beautiful world you have there. Those are not just shiny backgrounds.
Thats awesome art in every sense.

Players love to immerse themselves into the world more than anything.
Into the story and the style, sense, atmosphere of it, not just running around wearing buckets on heads and trying to break everything, regardless of what some asshole on RPS may think.
Use that beautifully carved nature.

Use those locations and areas you have better, bring them closer to the audience, whenever you mention anything else about mechanics or other features of the game always add a few bits of lore.
If that place has some history, talk about it. Intrigue the players more by the world itself.

And showcase those monsters and enemies you have. Show them kicking players asses too, not just being whacked around easily by players in god mode.
The players have to get a sense of danger, of obstacles to overcome - it only sucks them in more.

 

[Jashiin]

And get total biscshit to play with you. Will get a lot of exposure.

Get wallpapers and concept art out there too, like hiver says - pretty pictures sell. It doesn't matter you've already got the graphics and designstyle set. People love the artwork.

 

[Jaesun]

IIRC they said they would try to contact Total Biscut (from the comment section).

 

[Rake]

DU should open a Codex Marketing Division(TM) for developers ready to kickstart campains. We could be paid in game copies