Divinity: Original Sin Pre-Release Thread

[imweasel]

I agree. If anybody really deserves cash then it is the bros at Larian.

 

[ForkTong]

Is the guy serious? He is complaining because a boss fight, after the two characters skipped every single quests in the starting city and ran to outskirts dungeon, was 'barely' won by a completely new player and thus considered too easy?

Of course it's goddam too easy if a complete noob that doesn't get the rules can just go into a later-quest bossfight and not even die once

About difficulty: the boss fight was too easy. I used a cheat key to level us up, you should notice the jump between town and church.

The soldiers in the beginning are indeed probably too hard. As long as the magic isn't balanced, it's hard to tell atm.

 

[evdk]

I used to think it was dumb when people would be rooting and celebrating every little increase in a kickstarter campaign, but here I find myself doing the same for Original Sin. If anyone deserves a successful campaign, it's Larian and this game, and I'm fucking bothered that they are putting so much effort into this and possibly not getting even the second-last stretch goal with the final one being virtually an impossibility at this point.

I think what annoys me is that people give millions of dollars to games that don't really need it (wow if we get $500,000 more Mr. Dumbfuck will join the writing team!), and these guys have a great fully-functioning game and they're struggling to even hit stretch goals that would greatly improve the game itself.

This sucks.

Because Larian is a relatively small Belgian developer whose games occupy a niche in the already small cRPG market. Those KS project that crossed raised million on more relied on the power of star developers or a fan beloved franchise of which the Larian guys have sadly none.

 

[MicoSelva]

Also, whatever You think of quality of previous Divinity titles, they don't have the cult following of Wasteland/Fallout 1&2, Baldur's Gate 1&2 or Torment. Or at least their cult following is way smaller.

 

[Stabwound]

Yeah, that's very true. The most egregious example is Shroud of the Avatar, where all they had to do is show Richard Garriott talk about himself and how great he is and namedrop Ultima and magically they get $2,000,000 for what looks and sounds like a truly awful game.

I guess there is also something to be said for the feeling of "making the game possible" compared to just improving it. Original Sin was going to come out even if they didn't reach the funding goal, but something like Wasteland 2, the first CRPG kickstarter really rode the "only you can revive CRPGs again" card. Hell, even I pledged for that one.

 

[Jashiin]

ForkTong

Please remember to emphasize the singleplayer too in any up and coming let's plays. If your memory banks aren't overloaded that is.

 

[Arkeus]

Also, whatever You think of quality of previous Divinity titles, they don't have the cult following of Wasteland/Fallout 1&2, Baldur's Gate 1&2 or Torment. Or at least their cult following is way smaller.

The woes of being a European developer. Much harder to do marketing in US, and KS really is a US-centric machine so far.

 

[Grunker]

Still ANY coverage and any new backers so I can get my &^$%($ 1 Mil stretch goal is good. By any means.

Out of all the goals, only 800.000 concern me. Not because of the "full-fledged dialogues" and that shit, but because I want full customization control over all henchmen. They're probably going to be watered down without the 800.000$ stretch goal.

 

[Jashiin]

the 25 dollar pledge limit nearing, is concerning me.

 

[Zeriel]

Is the guy serious? He is complaining because a boss fight, after the two characters skipped every single quests in the starting city and ran to outskirts dungeon, was 'barely' won by a completely new player and thus considered too easy?

Of course it's goddam too easy if a complete noob that doesn't get the rules can just go into a later-quest bossfight and not even die once

About difficulty: the boss fight was too easy. I used a cheat key to level us up, you should notice the jump between town and church.

The soldiers in the beginning are indeed probably too hard. As long as the magic isn't balanced, it's hard to tell atm.

This reminds me of the XCOM previews where they did some of the earliest missions on the easiest difficulty, and the previewers were complaining about how hardcore and brutal it was, and eventually Jake Solomon had to type in a cheatcode to bring in end-game super-soldiers just to beat tutorial style missions. I really don't get how people whose entire job is to play games are so bad at it.

So, uh, just saying. We're out there. The mythical people I assume you are designing that not-Diablo-3-difficulty for, the people who pay attention to systems and enjoy challenges.

 

[felipepepe]

I used to think it was dumb when people would be rooting and celebrating every little increase in a kickstarter campaign, but here I find myself doing the same for Original Sin. If anyone deserves a successful campaign, it's Larian and this game, and I'm fucking bothered that they are putting so much effort into this and possibly not getting even the second-last stretch goal with the final one being virtually an impossibility at this point.

I think what annoys me is that people give millions of dollars to games that don't really need it (wow if we get $500,000 more Mr. Dumbfuck will join the writing team!), and these guys have a great fully-functioning game and they're struggling to even hit stretch goals that would greatly improve the game itself.

This sucks.

Because Larian is a relatively small Belgian developer whose games occupy a niche in the already small cRPG market. Those KS project that crossed raised million on more relied on the power of star developers or a fan beloved franchise of which the Larian guys have sadly none.

Ironic thing that Obsidian was the poor little dev some years ago, that was bullied by mainstream media and publishers...

I really don't get how people whose entire job is to play games are so bad at it.

And that includes you, Chris Avellone! Don't you think you've escaped just cause we changed threads!

 

[Zeriel]

I used to think it was dumb when people would be rooting and celebrating every little increase in a kickstarter campaign, but here I find myself doing the same for Original Sin. If anyone deserves a successful campaign, it's Larian and this game, and I'm fucking bothered that they are putting so much effort into this and possibly not getting even the second-last stretch goal with the final one being virtually an impossibility at this point.

I think what annoys me is that people give millions of dollars to games that don't really need it (wow if we get $500,000 more Mr. Dumbfuck will join the writing team!), and these guys have a great fully-functioning game and they're struggling to even hit stretch goals that would greatly improve the game itself.

This sucks.

Because Larian is a relatively small Belgian developer whose games occupy a niche in the already small cRPG market. Those KS project that crossed raised million on more relied on the power of star developers or a fan beloved franchise of which the Larian guys have sadly none.

Ironic thing that Obsidian was the poor little dev some years ago, that was bullied by mainstream media and publishers...

They always had the Black Isle name to fall back on, which has massive street cred with maybe 100,000-200,000 internet-savvy westerners with lots of cash to blow. It probably says a lot about how far the gaming industry has fallen that the mainstream success that was the Infinity Engine games is now viewed as a tiny niche by the press.

 

[Stabwound]

I didn't even notice that they limited the basic digital copy tier - that sounds like an incredibly dumb move considering it's the most popular tier by a large margin. That tier is going to fill out quickly, right during the usual end-of-campaign surge. I'm not very sure about that move but I'm not Larian here.

 

[felipepepe]

But it never mattered earlier, as publishers didn't give a fuck that they did those primordial 2D RPGs... now they are all the mojo.

 

[Stabbey]

Yeah, they should probably add a new unlimited $30 Tier really soon. And a $10 or so add-on of the digital Dragon Commander soundtrack. If not now, at least once the $25 Tier drops below 500 remaining.

Surprisingly, I'm still a little optimistic that all this needs is a lot of new eyeballs to shoot up, and there's playthroughs for sites which get a ton of eyeballs coming. If even 1% of the viewers pledge at $25, it could still end up pretty big.

Forktong - Have you considered making the enemies have simelaneous turns?

Watching more gameplay videos I was just thinking that I'd really love a turnbased game that had an option to move all the enemies simultaneously for their turns (or in DoS's case, only if they're sequentially ordered). It feels so plodding when one enemy does one thing then *beat* another enemy does one thing then *beat* another enemy does another thing. We've all played fallout and the like, that is freaking terrible and slow.

Nothing would change about the back end, enemies would still take turns individually *boop boop beep*, but for display purposes it sure would feel nice and organic (and be quicker!!) if all the enemies displayed their acts in unison, or logically progressive (if one enemy's actions builds off another's).

Pass it on to Larian.

 

[Zeriel]

I used to think it was dumb when people would be rooting and celebrating every little increase in a kickstarter campaign, but here I find myself doing the same for Original Sin. If anyone deserves a successful campaign, it's Larian and this game, and I'm fucking bothered that they are putting so much effort into this and possibly not getting even the second-last stretch goal with the final one being virtually an impossibility at this point.

I think what annoys me is that people give millions of dollars to games that don't really need it (wow if we get $500,000 more Mr. Dumbfuck will join the writing team!), and these guys have a great fully-functioning game and they're struggling to even hit stretch goals that would greatly improve the game itself.

This sucks.

Because Larian is a relatively small Belgian developer whose games occupy a niche in the already small cRPG market. Those KS project that crossed raised million on more relied on the power of star developers or a fan beloved franchise of which the Larian guys have sadly none.

Ironic thing that Obsidian was the poor little dev some years ago, that was bullied by mainstream media and publishers...

I really don't get how people whose entire job is to play games are so bad at it.

And that includes you, Chris Avellone! Don't you think you've escaped just cause we changed threads!

Well, I know you're just joking, but his job isn't playing games. I'm tolerant of developers being bad at games (though I think it's a bit of a problem, it scares me that most of World of Warcraft's developers, for instance, are not as good as millions of above-average players), because they often don't have time to both play games, make them, and see to their family life. Previewers/Reviewers have literally no excuse, and it boggles my mind.

Do they intentionally cultivate an artificial aura of badness so that casuals watching are encouraged and think it's normal? Is this a way to sell hard games? Be all "WOW THIS IS SO CHALLENGING, but look even a retard like me can get into it" and wait for the publisher paychecks to roll in?

 

[Gord]

I didn't even notice that they limited the basic digital copy tier - that sounds like an incredibly dumb move considering it's the most popular tier by a large margin. That tier is going to fill out quickly, right during the usual end-of-campaign surge. I'm not very sure about that move but I'm not Larian here.

Two reasons, I think.
First, they probably not really counted on reaching the goal so fast (even when they still deserve much more) and secondly, didn't they mention that they still have some contracts with distributors (GOG, Steam) that limit how many games they can offer for that price during Kickstarter? (But maybe I got that wrong)

 

[Jashiin]

I really don't get how people whose entire job is to play games are so bad at it.

Because first and foremost it's their job to get hits, and promote games.

 

[Jack Dandy]

Seconding the opinions about clarifying the SP portions and adding an unlimited 25bux tier..

 

[Mangoose]

I'm tolerant of developers being bad at games (though I think it's a bit of a problem, it scares me that most of World of Warcraft's developers, for instance, are not as good as millions of above-average players), because they often don't have time to both play games, make them, and see to their family life

I dunno. That depends. If it were a game that requires much much practice to be good at, then yeah, I understand. But if it's not such a game, then usually being "bad" at the game means a lack of understanding. And if you don't understand the mechanics or aspects of prior games, then what kind of fundamental knowledge is this developer going to be building on?

 

[Zeriel]

I'm tolerant of developers being bad at games (though I think it's a bit of a problem, it scares me that most of World of Warcraft's developers, for instance, are not as good as millions of above-average players), because they often don't have time to both play games, make them, and see to their family life

I dunno. That depends. If it were a game that requires much much practice to be good at, then yeah, I understand. But if it's not such a game, then usually being "bad" at the game means a lack of understanding. And if you don't understand the mechanics or aspects of prior games, then what kind of fundamental knowledge is this developer going to be building on?

It only really scares me with online games where balance matters because terrible balancing decisions arise out of a poor understanding of how the game is actually played at high levels. Admittedly it just doesn't matter for most other games, though. And I like singleplayer games to be unbalanced to a certain degree, because that tends to make them quirky and fun.

 

[VonVentrue]

I think what annoys me is that people give millions of dollars to games that don't really need it (wow if we get $500,000 more Mr. Dumbfuck will join the writing team!), and these guys have a great fully-functioning game and they're struggling to even hit stretch goals that would greatly improve the game itself.

This sucks.

That'd make an interesting, if somewhat depressing, study. Here Larian are, going to great lengths to achieve but a fraction of what others managed to get by merely snapping their fingers (not to undermine anyone's work, but it certainly feels like it when you decide to delve into comparisons - Swen&co. aren't selling dreams or visions, they're pitching an actual game), putting an exorbitant amount of effort into the campaign pretty much in vain - their perseverance and praiseworthy struggle has thus far brought them praise, but not the necessary funds they deserve.

...And all because they can't overcome the lack of bloody name/brand recognition others enjoy.

 

[Coboney]

I'm tolerant of developers being bad at games (though I think it's a bit of a problem, it scares me that most of World of Warcraft's developers, for instance, are not as good as millions of above-average players), because they often don't have time to both play games, make them, and see to their family life

I dunno. That depends. If it were a game that requires much much practice to be good at, then yeah, I understand. But if it's not such a game, then usually being "bad" at the game means a lack of understanding. And if you don't understand the mechanics or aspects of prior games, then what kind of fundamental knowledge is this developer going to be building on?

So much this.

You can understand intellectually what they were attempting and achieved by reading, seeing results and the background stuff without actually having played it much and without being any good at it. You can understand that people like games that do this and agree its a good feature and implement it... while sucking at actually using it properly.

Not saying that being a sucky player at games is normal or really fully acceptable for designers but understandable depending on what happens and what your focus is. Its also part of the reason there are whole teams that work on stuff - each person brings their own skill set and knowledge to it.

And thats without even getting into systems that require reflexes or such which takes it to a whole different level.



Back on Topic - I wish I had more to donate but sadly the $101 I did is all I can afford right now. I do hope that everything goes well and we get through all the stretch goals.

Also as someone suggested having a backers store open would make sense and allow money to count to stretch goals on that and paypal for the first month. Swen mentioned in the video today about Credit Card cycle being a bit of an issue - doing that would lessen it some.

 

[Zeriel]

I think what annoys me is that people give millions of dollars to games that don't really need it (wow if we get $500,000 more Mr. Dumbfuck will join the writing team!), and these guys have a great fully-functioning game and they're struggling to even hit stretch goals that would greatly improve the game itself.

This sucks.

That'd make an interesting, if somewhat depressing, study. Here Larian are, going to great lengths to achieve but a fraction of what others managed to get by merely snapping their fingers (not to undermine anyone's work, but it certainly feels like it when you decide to delve into comparisons - Swen&co. aren't selling dreams or visions, they're pitching an actual game), putting an exorbitant amount of effort into the campaign pretty much in vain - their perseverance and praiseworthy struggle has thus far brought them praise, but not the necessary funds they deserve.

...And all because they can't overcome the lack of bloody name/brand recognition others enjoy.

Turns out that 100M marketing budget for Call of Bioshock: Infinite Duty was completely realistic and not at all wasted, after all.

And here we thought games sold based on, I don't know, an actual product.

 

[Coboney]

I think what annoys me is that people give millions of dollars to games that don't really need it (wow if we get $500,000 more Mr. Dumbfuck will join the writing team!), and these guys have a great fully-functioning game and they're struggling to even hit stretch goals that would greatly improve the game itself.

This sucks.

That'd make an interesting, if somewhat depressing, study. Here Larian are, going to great lengths to achieve but a fraction of what others managed to get by merely snapping their fingers (not to undermine anyone's work, but it certainly feels like it when you decide to delve into comparisons - Swen&co. aren't selling dreams or visions, they're pitching an actual game), putting an exorbitant amount of effort into the campaign pretty much in vain - their perseverance and praiseworthy struggle has thus far brought them praise, but not the necessary funds they deserve.

...And all because they can't overcome the lack of bloody name/brand recognition others enjoy.

Turns out that 100M marketing budget for Call of Bioshock: Infinite Duty are completely realistic and not at all wasted, after all.

And here we thought games sold based on, I don't know, an actual product.

Sadly people are idiots. And buy whatever is promoted to them as being 'good'. Without thinking a lot of times in fact.