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Doing a Legion run in FO:NV

Butter

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Anyway BoS as a major faction makes no sense. Even if you ignore their deterioration shown in Fallout 2, they're isolationist as a matter of principle. The idea that they'd be playing politics or fighting over the Hoover Dam for their own ends doesn't fly. This is borne of Fallout 3 retardation where the BoS are paladins of the wasteland.
 

Carrion

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I don't mind the Legion's ruthlessness, which is only appropriate in a post-apocalyptic setting, but there are certain bits that give them an unnecessary "cartoony evil" vibe. For example, pretty much the only Legion-related women you see are those female slaves at Caesar's camp, carrying those gigantic backpacks up and down a hill. Maybe it's just the lack of time, but having an actual female Legion NPC in the game — or at least someone who could give you a more accurate glimpse of what day-to-day life is like in Legion territories — could've helped change the player's perception of the faction quite drastically. Now you mostly just see the frontline brutalities and, aside from Caesar himself, hear a few short lines from Raul, Cass and some others.

I also didn't like the idea of Legion as machete rape gangs. As others have said, they'd be instantly mowed down in any serious battle regardless of their numbers. I would've liked to see them focus more on guerrilla warfare, dirty tactics, cutting off NCR's supply lines etc., rather than taking the war into the open against NCR's superior weapons and resources. There are bits and pieces of that sort of stuff in the game, but I think a few minor changes would've helped make the Legion a fair bit more plausible and compelling.
 

KVVRR

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I don't mind the Legion's ruthlessness, which is only appropriate in a post-apocalyptic setting, but there are certain bits that give them an unnecessary "cartoony evil" vibe. For example, pretty much the only Legion-related women you see are those female slaves at Caesar's camp, carrying those gigantic backpacks up and down a hill. Maybe it's just the lack of time, but having an actual female Legion NPC in the game — or at least someone who could give you a more accurate glimpse of what day-to-day life is like in Legion territories — could've helped change the player's perception of the faction quite drastically. Now you mostly just see the frontline brutalities and, aside from Caesar himself, hear a few short lines from Raul, Cass and some others.

I also didn't like the idea of Legion as machete rape gangs. As others have said, they'd be instantly mowed down in any serious battle regardless of their numbers. I would've liked to see them focus more on guerrilla warfare, dirty tactics, cutting off NCR's supply lines etc., rather than taking the war into the open against NCR's superior weapons and resources. There are bits and pieces of that sort of stuff in the game, but I think a few minor changes would've helped make the Legion a fair bit more plausible and compelling.
Funny how Raul is the companion who is most tolerant of the legion when he's one of the few who would get killed on sight by them.
 

The Jester

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(honestly just feels like it's shoehorned in to fit with Bethesda's mandate that the Brotherhood must overall be "good" guys)

Bethesda went full fascist with the Brotherhood in Fallout 4
Maxson Is Actually a Nazi at Fallout 4 Nexus
46104-1594082855-1822979389.png
 

typical user

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(honestly just feels like it's shoehorned in to fit with Bethesda's mandate that the Brotherhood must overall be "good" guys)

Bethesda went full fascist with the Brotherhood in Fallout 4
Maxson Is Actually a Nazi at Fallout 4 Nexus
46104-1594082855-1822979389.png

Nah, he is just flexing.

For real though, as far as I know Fo4 BoS is tolerating ghouls although they suspect they eventually turn feral. And they haven't met any intelligent supermutant and also probably forgot FEV turns them sterile. Unless they are flexing and hating every non-human for the sake of hating them. It's Bethesda's writing we are talking about.
 

DalekFlay

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I don't mind the Legion's ruthlessness, which is only appropriate in a post-apocalyptic setting, but there are certain bits that give them an unnecessary "cartoony evil" vibe. For example, pretty much the only Legion-related women you see are those female slaves at Caesar's camp, carrying those gigantic backpacks up and down a hill. Maybe it's just the lack of time, but having an actual female Legion NPC in the game — or at least someone who could give you a more accurate glimpse of what day-to-day life is like in Legion territories — could've helped change the player's perception of the faction quite drastically. Now you mostly just see the frontline brutalities and, aside from Caesar himself, hear a few short lines from Raul, Cass and some others.

There is a female NPC at the Legion camp, I think she runs a food store or something. She paints a pretty gruesome picture, all women are treated as slaves not just some of them. If you're a female courier she also tells you to watch your back as many Legion members have mentioned they plan to "try you out" or something like that.

I don't think a post-apocalypse tribal society treating women like this is some crazy unrealistic idea, it makes a lot of sense really, but again we're talking about making them complex or "good" enough for players to choose them as a faction, which is a different metric.
 

vota DC

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I don't mind the Legion's ruthlessness, which is only appropriate in a post-apocalyptic setting, but there are certain bits that give them an unnecessary "cartoony evil" vibe. For example, pretty much the only Legion-related women you see are those female slaves at Caesar's camp, carrying those gigantic backpacks up and down a hill. Maybe it's just the lack of time, but having an actual female Legion NPC in the game — or at least someone who could give you a more accurate glimpse of what day-to-day life is like in Legion territories — could've helped change the player's perception of the faction quite drastically. Now you mostly just see the frontline brutalities and, aside from Caesar himself, hear a few short lines from Raul, Cass and some others.

I also didn't like the idea of Legion as machete rape gangs. As others have said, they'd be instantly mowed down in any serious battle regardless of their numbers. I would've liked to see them focus more on guerrilla warfare, dirty tactics, cutting off NCR's supply lines etc., rather than taking the war into the open against NCR's superior weapons and resources. There are bits and pieces of that sort of stuff in the game, but I think a few minor changes would've helped make the Legion a fair bit more plausible and compelling.
Even legion child soldiers can allow a grenade said the crippled ranger in Novac.
 

Mexi

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The traders paint a good picture of the Legion. I think that trader in the Legion's main base talks about it being a safe and fair society. While he likes traveling in the Legion territory, he's more worried working with the NCR. Plus, the developers all say we're only seeing the Legion's frontlines. These are some of the Legion's best soldiers and veterans of several skirmishes. Pretty sure it'd paint a bleak picture for anyone watching these guys in action.

Also, this BoS talk about them being a main faction is sounding like some Bethesda retarded shit. What Elijah was doing at the Sierra Madre was exactly in line with what the BoS would've wanted done had they had their way. Kill everyone and isolate themselves with those holograms for protection. They didn't give a fuck about Wasteland politics. Mr. House was 100% right that they should be eliminated. Too much of a wildcard, and you can see it when you allow Elijah to get his desired ending in Dead Money.
 

Carrion

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There is a female NPC at the Legion camp, I think she runs a food store or something. She paints a pretty gruesome picture, all women are treated as slaves not just some of them. If you're a female courier she also tells you to watch your back as many Legion members have mentioned they plan to "try you out" or something like that.
Could be, it's been a few years since my last playthrough. Still, that just reinforces my point. For example, establishing them as a functional society with strict gender roles that isn't hell for half the population (outrageous, I know) would've gone a long way towards making the Legion seem less black and white.
 
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Cryomancer

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Gender roles was the norm in over 99% of human societies in human time. Legion treats woman badly but that is not even the biggest problem with then. The problem with Legion is that their idea of pillaging is retarded. What they will gonna do once all resources are already pillaged? They will have no farm, no weapon and electronic factories, no clean water, no medicine... Mr House long therm plan will probably fail but we will get a prosperous stable "private city". And NCR wanna rebuild the same corrupt and inefficient democracy who lead to the nuclear war in the first place.

Mr House protected the city, he build an robot army to be able to protect his "oasis", he got electricity, clean water and everything that his "oasis need".

"but the credit check to enter". Well, resources are limited. His "private city" can't have open borders, otherwise, people will flood there and NCR would easily take control over his prosperous city.

-------------

What made Legion so powerful in the first place is the NCR forced annexations, only to put crippling regulations and heavy tax for "protection" that never reaches when they need protection and this villages would be far better bargaining for private security with Mr House.
 
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Trashos

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New Vegas Is just NCR game....they are everywhere except Goodspring which has only local vs powder ganger conflict so every main faction Isn't involved.

Typically, Primm and Novac are also independent. But Primm is on the verge of falling in NCR hands (although player choice can keep it independent), and Novac has Boone in it.

Anyway, there is a lot that could have been done for the Legion with more time, eg infiltration missions as in McCarran (awesome quests, btw). The game would benefit by more infiltration missions everywhere, especially if they were on the level of "I put a spell on you".
 

Mexi

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Gender roles was the norm in over 99% of human societies in human time. Legion treats woman badly but that is not even the biggest problem with then. The problem with Legion is that their idea of pillaging is retarded. What they will gonna do once all resources are already pillaged? They will have no farm, no weapon and electronic factories, no clean water, no medicine... Mr House long therm plan will probably fail but we will get a prosperous stable "private city". And NCR wanna rebuild the same corrupt and inefficient democracy who lead to the nuclear war in the first place.

Mr House protected the city, he build an robot army to be able to protect his "oasis", he got electricity, clean water and everything that his "oasis need".

"but the credit check to enter". Well, resources are limited. His "private city" can't have open borders, otherwise, people will flood there and NCR would easily take control over his prosperous city.

-------------

What made Legion so powerful in the first place is the NCR forced annexations, only to put crippling regulations and heavy tax for "protection" that never reaches when they need protection and this villages would be far better bargaining for private security with Mr House.
Caesar states that engulfing the NCR will transform the Legion. The Legion under Caesar after taking NCR will be an entirely different entity if he is to be believed. Anyways, this thread is making me want to play another round of New Vegas. I think my final play was a pacifist ending, so I ended up siding with that robot in Benny's suite (I just forgot his name). Mr. House adamantly sends you to destroy the BoS, and I don't think there is a way out of killing them. Maybe I didn't have the proper stats if there is, though.
 

DalekFlay

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Caesar states that engulfing the NCR will transform the Legion. The Legion under Caesar after taking NCR will be an entirely different entity if he is to be believed. Anyways, this thread is making me want to play another round of New Vegas. I think my final play was a pacifist ending, so I ended up siding with that robot in Benny's suite (I just forgot his name). Mr. House adamantly sends you to destroy the BoS, and I don't think there is a way out of killing them. Maybe I didn't have the proper stats if there is, though.

You can get out of killing the BoS with NCR, but I'm pretty sure it's mandatory with House. That's what turned my first House run into my first independent run, because Veronica was my BFF that run.
 

Cryomancer

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Mr House is the ancap heaven. Guns, prostitutes, no regulations, no taxes, private law enforcement made by a private robot army equipped with "destructive devices"... And people who advocate for democracy(NCR) are physically removed so to speak.
 

Alphons

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I would've liked to see them focus more on guerrilla warfare, dirty tactics, cutting off NCR's supply lines etc

Since the First Battle for the Dam all Legion's doing is a guerilla warfare.

Nelson garrison was slaughtered in their sleep, Searchlight was destroyed with a dirty bomb, in Nipton using greed and fear tactics they killed an entire town, group of bandits and a squad of NCR troopers with just a dozen of men. Then there's Curtis in McCarran spying on NCR's movement and planning a terrorist attack right in the middle of NCR's main base.

Legion raid camp (part of Booted side quest) is used as a base of operations on NCR controlled territory, from where they attack caravans and NCR supply lines. Legion ambushes a caravan on your way to Novac and kills NCR troopers with supplies from Helios 1 (Restoring Hope quest).

Then there's their use of fear tactics. Crucifying Nelson troopers in plain view of Forlorn Hope troopers, but just beyond their range to prevent them from mercy killing. Taking out Station Charlie and then booby trapping the bodies and leaving a message that they took a prisoner. Booby trapped troopers at Forlorn Hope. Taking out Kimball in one swift motion (both the sniper and Vertibird bomb). Asking Courier to spread the word about Nipton among common soldiers in Mojave Outpost.

I also didn't like the idea of Legion as machete rape gangs.

Don't know where this "Legion has only lawnmower machetes" came from, but Legion absolutely uses guns.

https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Recruit_legionary

Recruits, who're Legion's standard soldiers are armed with pistols (9mm, 10mm, .357 revolver), shotguns (single or caravan) or rifles (varmint or cowboy repeater). Throwing spears and machetes are their extra equipment.

https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Veteran_legionary

Veteran legionaries have melee or unarmed only fighters (fire axes or power fists), but they're supported by guys with guns more powerful than standard NCR pea-shooters.
12,7 submachine guns, .44 revolvers, hunting rifles, marksman carbines and cowboy repeaters are all used by them.
 

Harthwain

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Mr House is the ancap heaven. Guns, prostitutes, no regulations, no taxes, private law enforcement made by a private robot army equipped with "destructive devices"... And people who advocate for democracy(NCR) are physically removed so to speak.
Mr. House is essentially the head of the corporate state. At this point how it works depends solely on who's at the helm, so - in principle - it's highly unstable. Even assuming he can live forever, there is no telling how his state of mind could change, affecting the entire structure in the process.
 

AW8

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Aside from the discussion about their lack of content or whether or not the game presents reasons for the player to join them, I feel the Legion is very misunderstood by players in general.

There's this idea that they're pretending to be Romans, or trying to emulate ancient Rome. They're not. Apart from Roman imagery and names, and the idea of conquering and assimilating other groups of people (which is not at all unique to Rome) they have nothing to do with ancient Rome.

Caesar picked Rome to use as his theme because it saved him the time to create new names and symbols from scratch, and because it was a completely alien theme that he could use to spellbind the backwards people of post-apocalyptic America with as he created his cult of personality.

Then there's this notion that they predominately or even exclusively use melee weapons, which is completely false. Most legionnaires use firearms. Unlike the NCR, they don't have a standard rifle, but instead use a wide assortment of guns such as hunting rifles, shotguns, revolvers and SMGs.

Legionnaires who are only equipped with swords and throwing spears are a minority. This minority includes the iconic Legatus Lanius, who I believe have altered people's memories into believing the Legion are all machete-wielders who rush into melee.

Another thing I think people often overlook is that the Legion consists entirely of brainwashed slaves. From the lowest recruit to the Legate himself, everyone is a slave to Caesar. No one chose this life. The ones who weren't captured were born into slavery. Their entire lives have been tailored by Caesar to fit his purpose and help fulfill his goal, which is to return home and reform his old country. All they know is what Caesar wants them to know.

The guy is so afraid of his legionnaires getting a glimpse of another way of life that he wants Mr. House's technology in Fortification Hill destroyed without even looking at it. He forbids the use of medical drugs so he can awe his soldiers with his amazing god-given healing powers (i.e. his auto-doc). His grip on his Legion and how they live can come off as comical, but look no further than China censoring Winnie the Pooh for a real-life example of a dictator's absurd paranoia.

The problem with Legion is that their idea of pillaging is retarded. What they will gonna do once all resources are already pillaged? They will have no farm, no weapon and electronic factories, no clean water, no medicine...
The Legion is not sustained by pillaging. They control four states worth of settlements, who all produce for the Legion.
 

Trashos

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Unfortunately, Mr House is not Ancap. His regulations are strict (not ethically, ethics is not what he cares about) and his taxes are heavy. The merchant outside Ultraluxe will tell you so. She is not allowed to sell alcohol, that's only for the casinos. She also mentions that 50% of her earnings go to House iirc. House has a mind for business, but he is still a strict regulator.

The places with the lowest taxes in the Mojave are the independent ones. Eg, if you keep Primm independent by placing Meyers as a sheriff, Nash's prices go down. On the other hand, factions that offer major protection services demand heavy taxes.

RE: House & BoS
You have no option but to kill the BoS if you side with House, no matter your stats.
 
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Ancap. Fallout. Alright. Sure. That libertarian delusion can’t work in real life, how does it work in shame setting where factional power plays are explicit?
 

Cryomancer

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Mr House is the ancap heaven. Guns, prostitutes, no regulations, no taxes, private law enforcement made by a private robot army equipped with "destructive devices"... And people who advocate for democracy(NCR) are physically removed so to speak.
Mr. House is essentially the head of the corporate state. At this point how it works depends solely on who's at the helm, so - in principle - it's highly unstable. Even assuming he can live forever, there is no telling how his state of mind could change, affecting the entire structure in the process.

He is a genious and probably has contingency plans to after his death... But lets suppose that he is dead one second after his ending on FNV. The robots will patrol and follow the procedures given by him. Protecting the strip. All energy, food and water which he managed to produce near the strip still will gonna work. NCR in other hands, would turn that area into a "Commiefornia 2.0"
 

vota DC

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The places with the lowest taxes in the Mojave are the independent ones. Eg, if you keep Primm independent by placing Meyers as a sheriff, Nash's prices go down. On the other hand, factions that offer major protection services demand heavy taxes.

This guy is very fit for independent New Vegas since he hates burocracy and was sent to jail by NCR....he should Legion where justice is fast, streets are safe and corrupts can't escape. It is very strange that Meyers do a kamikaze attack against Legion and every Primm citizens follow him. Primm Slim dies alone against Legion and it is very fitting since he is slow and follows too much the rules but Meyers seems one of the NPC that can adapt better to Legion's rule....I mean even Mr Fantastic manages!
 

Cryomancer

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Ancap. Fallout. Alright. Sure. That libertarian delusion can’t work in real life, how does it work in shame setting where factional power plays are explicit?

Read the book : Not so wild, wild west.

The idea that the wild west was violent is complete BS. The most violent city on the wild west had a tiny fraction of the violence of a modern USA city. And the "train raiders", just put a single gatling gun in a train and nobody can reach close to it "but horses", only the loud sound of the gatling gun would make then ran away. Mr House is by far the superior one cuz the region will not devolve into another modern state and another nuclear disaster.
 

Luckmann

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The problem with Legion is that their idea of pillaging is retarded. What they will gonna do once all resources are already pillaged? They will have no farm, no weapon and electronic factories, no clean water, no medicine...
The army front, like most armies throughout history, sustains itself by pillaging. I don't know what made you think that all of the Legion sustains the entirety of their lands entirely by pillaging, or that they don't have any facilities, farms, water purification plants, or similar.

Nevermind that Caesar's plan was to conquer the NCR, not pillage it, and through that conflict also reform the Legion as much as the Legion would cleanse the NCR. He is quite clear in that the Legion was never meant to endure or be a perpetual warmachine.
Ancap. Fallout. Alright. Sure. That libertarian delusion can’t work in real life, how does it work in shame setting where factional power plays are explicit?

Read the book : Not so wild, wild west.

The idea that the wild west was violent is complete BS. The most violent city on the wild west had a tiny fraction of the violence of a modern USA city. And the "train raiders", just put a single gatling gun in a train and nobody can reach close to it "but horses", only the loud sound of the gatling gun would make then ran away. Mr House is by far the superior one cuz the region will not devolve into another modern state and another nuclear disaster.
The wild west was also almost exclusively European and relatively homogeneous compared to modern society. But I'm sure that's just some kind of coincidence.
 

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