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Incline Dominions 6

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I don't see why you'd take a 4X game and cram battles in.
Because combat is boring without manual battles.

The mixing of a strategic and a tactical layer is what makes strategy games perfect for me. I want it both!
 

Latro

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Doing tactical in dominions would change so much it’d be better to just ask for a new spinoff. Maybe there’s more stuff they can do with formations? Maybe focus a bit less on scripting for a more ogre battle setup, idk
 

man-erg

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Yes, battles are more fun when you can control them. I play strategy games for the battles. Total War is my favorite strategy game series for a reason, and I vastly prefer 4X games with manual battles over those with abstracted auto-battles (Master of Orion and Age of Wonders are better than Civilization).
Eh, but it seems like you should be playing Fantasy General or Field Of Glory or something. AoW isn't even 4X by most definitions in any case. I do thing having a fantasy game focused almost entirely on battles would be cool, but I don't see why you'd take a 4X game and cram battles in.

For me personally player managed battles that are deep and interesting and a strategy layer that are deep and interesting hurt each other. Total War is a fantastic example. Battles are trivialized by strategy layer advantages and then if the player is in a tough spot they can just hand run battles and crush vastly superior armies.

Wouldn't it make more sense to play *tactical* games, or even *operational* games for the battles rather than strategy games with map painting?

Yep, agree with this to an extent. The strategic layer has to be simplified else the game will take decades to finish. Gamers used to clamour for tactical battles in Paradox games. Unless you have like 40 years of nothing in real life ahead, how would you ever finish it if every battle turned into a 30+ minute tactical battle? The alternative is that the tactical battles and the strategy layer both have to be simplified. Age of Wonders series is exactly this, for me. Tactical battles are rubbish compared to Field of Glory or Fantasy General. You rush the AI who is rushing at you. Fairly soon, you are auto-completing them as they are repetitive and tedious. Planetfall was even worse, I thought. And then the strategy layers has about 10% the depth of even Civ 6. But I don't think its AOW specific, I think it is an inherent problem with that whole approach. Total War is similar, though overall, perhaps the strategy layer is deeper than AOW and the tactical battles more varied. But still...even when I enjoy the game, I never finish a campaign as it just takes too long! Play a few turns, fight a few battles, then start again with a different nation. Repeat a couple of turns until uninstalling and going back to Civ 4, FFH2 or HOMM3 :)
 

man-erg

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As for Dominmions... always thought it a great game idea. I like the way you play the tactical battles in advance then just spectate them follow your orders. A neat way of solving that problem of time-consuming. The problem with Dominion was (and presumably always will be) the abysmal interface.
 

Axioms

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As for Dominmions... always thought it a great game idea. I like the way you play the tactical battles in advance then just spectate them follow your orders. A neat way of solving that problem of time-consuming. The problem with Dominion was (and presumably always will be) the abysmal interface.
That interface my god. Bro needs to learn about this new fangled invention called a scroll bar.
 

Dadd

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The AI is stupid enough without direct input. It would require a lot of work to make it worth fighting with direct control. If it were implemented, it would be useful to have the option to toggle direct control so you can choose to directly control only important battles and auto-resolve when fighting province defense.
 

Axioms

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I mean every aspect of the game is designed with indirect control in mind. The amount of balance work would be insane plus you'd upset all the people who didn't want direct control. All pain, minimal upside. This is why AoW4 and Fantasy General exist.
 

Dadd

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I'd like to directly control my pretender. Otherwise I don't expect Illwinter to completely overhaul their game (even assuming they didn't have to change anything about the system, which I doubt given its complexity) to allow tactical battles, considering how important scripting and the lack of direct control are for simulating real battles and for keeping luck an integral part of the game. Besides, it would be extremely complicated to do this when there isn't much demand for it.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Unless you have like 40 years of nothing in real life ahead, how would you ever finish it if every battle turned into a 30+ minute tactical battle?
You're aware that games with manual battles have the option to auto-resolve, right? For minor skirmishes that's an option people use a lot in Total War too.

And it's not like Paradox games have that many more battles than Total War games on average.
 

Axioms

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I dunno why ya'll are being so dramatic about this. The new features and UI improvements easily equate to more than the same value worth of Paradox DLCs. It isn't like they put out a game every year. It'll be almost 6 years on the nose since D5 released.
 

Hag

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Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
Always excited for more Illwinter Games. They're all more of the same but they have their own comfy world that I enjoy coming back to.
 

darkpatriot

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I dunno why ya'll are being so dramatic about this. The new features and UI improvements easily equate to more than the same value worth of Paradox DLCs. It isn't like they put out a game every year. It'll be almost 6 years on the nose since D5 released.

What UI improvements and new features?

I am not trying to be snarky, but I have played Dom 3, 4, and 5. Maybe my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I recall very little being different between them mechanic and UI wise. I am sure there are improvements, but not many. The main difference was additional content added, from what I recall, although I am sure there are also behind the scenes changes to make it run on more modern equipment and OSs.

Not that I hold that against an indie developer with infrequent releases that much, but it is not like he changes very much at all between the Dominions games.

That is one reason the claims of this Dominions having the more significant mechanic and gameplay changes than any previous Dominions game has me intrigued. I am looking forward to finding out how adventurous the dev is willing to be this time around.
 

Malakal

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I dunno why ya'll are being so dramatic about this. The new features and UI improvements easily equate to more than the same value worth of Paradox DLCs. It isn't like they put out a game every year. It'll be almost 6 years on the nose since D5 released.

What UI improvements and new features?

I am not trying to be snarky, but I have played Dom 3, 4, and 5. Maybe my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I recall very little being different between them mechanic and UI wise. I am sure there are improvements, but not many. The main difference was additional content added, from what I recall, although I am sure there are also behind the scenes changes to make it run on more modern equipment and OSs.

Not that I hold that against an indie developer with infrequent releases that much, but it is not like he changes very much at all between the Dominions games.

That is one reason the claims of this Dominions having the more significant mechanic and gameplay changes than any previous Dominions game has me intrigued. I am looking forward to finding out how adventurous the dev is willing to be this time around.

Its already been revealed that 6 will have ritual arrows. Memorizing dozens and dozens of rituals per turn, which province they affected, that was a major pain in the ass before. New nations probably, LA Ind for example. We'll see about the rest.

Historically 5 did new bless system, new nations, new spells and magic and combat rework.

4 I dont remember what changed compared to 3.

All things considered new content, maybe rework of old nations, maybe new mechanics and utility.
 

man-erg

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Unless you have like 40 years of nothing in real life ahead, how would you ever finish it if every battle turned into a 30+ minute tactical battle?
You're aware that games with manual battles have the option to auto-resolve, right? For minor skirmishes that's an option people use a lot in Total War too.

And it's not like Paradox games have that many more battles than Total War games on average.

Yes, a balance is possible between strategy map vs tactical map, because some games do get it about right. eg XCom, HOMM 3. Though on auto-resolve, it is good to have. But I can't help thinking that if a game is designed such that half of it can be effectively switched off, then that indicates a design problem.
In Dominions, I'm not sure whether the emphasis is on the campaign map or the battles. As I said, I liked the way Dominions solved this problem. Haven't played it for years, but as I recall, you don't have to watch all the battles. It is basically an auto-resolve, only much better as you do get to set up your army and give orders. It's a neat solution and not too unrealistic (yeah, I know its a fantasy game!). But the idea of you as the Big Commander, basically laying down the top level orders then watching your underlings obey them - or not quite do as you expect. Best of all, it's quick, which in Dominions is essential as the campaign map is so clunky and needs so many clicks to do anything, it is slow going.
I'd be happy if Paradox games adopted a similar concept. The combat has, for me, always been the weakest part in them. Give the army high level orders "defend/attack/hide etc" then watch in a quick battle like Dominions could be neat if well executed.
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I hope they learn from Field of Glory's multiplayer system. It's so much better when the game automates the file handling and emails each turn.
 

Malakal

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I hope they learn from Field of Glory's multiplayer system. It's so much better when the game automates the file handling and emails each turn.

Most games nowadays happen via dedicated servers and ingame, not PBEM. You only input IP and can at any time see who did and sent turn.

This started in late 4 time already. Theres a ton of dedicated communities too, pretty good ones.
 

Axioms

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Unless you have like 40 years of nothing in real life ahead, how would you ever finish it if every battle turned into a 30+ minute tactical battle?
You're aware that games with manual battles have the option to auto-resolve, right? For minor skirmishes that's an option people use a lot in Total War too.

And it's not like Paradox games have that many more battles than Total War games on average.

Yes, a balance is possible between strategy map vs tactical map, because some games do get it about right. eg XCom, HOMM 3. Though on auto-resolve, it is good to have. But I can't help thinking that if a game is designed such that half of it can be effectively switched off, then that indicates a design problem.
In Dominions, I'm not sure whether the emphasis is on the campaign map or the battles. As I said, I liked the way Dominions solved this problem. Haven't played it for years, but as I recall, you don't have to watch all the battles. It is basically an auto-resolve, only much better as you do get to set up your army and give orders. It's a neat solution and not too unrealistic (yeah, I know its a fantasy game!). But the idea of you as the Big Commander, basically laying down the top level orders then watching your underlings obey them - or not quite do as you expect. Best of all, it's quick, which in Dominions is essential as the campaign map is so clunky and needs so many clicks to do anything, it is slow going.
I'd be happy if Paradox games adopted a similar concept. The combat has, for me, always been the weakest part in them. Give the army high level orders "defend/attack/hide etc" then watch in a quick battle like Dominions could be neat if well executed.
Axioms basically works this way. You and your vassals/allies agree on a campaign plan, with some reasonable flexibility, then the AI goes and does the plan, unless they are stupid or backstabbing you or something, and if your leader heads an army you can lead that army. There's a few turns, so 1-4 weeks, of maneuver for hostile armies in the same province and then they fight. Important to have strong communication system, good intel on local terrain/conditions, etc. Paradox heavily abstracts this plus the weird 2-4 month battles thing but they take the same casualties the whole time.
 

Serious_Business

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I don't see why you'd take a 4X game and cram battles in.
Because combat is boring without manual battles.

The mixing of a strategic and a tactical layer is what makes strategy games perfect for me. I want it both!

Get the fuck outta here you mentally senile fuck, you said this already. No one is asking for this, this isn't pertinent to the discussion. No one cares about what is perfect for you. A harsh reality indeed

Anyway looking forward to it. I enjoy this series even though since I don't do MP I don't play it as much as I could. I hope they do something about communions... that shit is truly esoterical, makes my head hurt just trying to think about it
 

Axioms

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I don't see why you'd take a 4X game and cram battles in.
Because combat is boring without manual battles.

The mixing of a strategic and a tactical layer is what makes strategy games perfect for me. I want it both!

Get the fuck outta here you mentally senile fuck, you said this already. No one is asking for this, this isn't pertinent to the discussion. No one cares about what is perfect for you. A harsh reality indeed

Anyway looking forward to it. I enjoy this series even though since I don't do MP I don't play it as much as I could. I hope they do something about communions... that shit is truly esoterical, makes my head hurt just trying to think about it
God if only someone made a game like this focused purely on single player and doing insane magic shit. The MP focus is my number one big sad about the series. Imagine how crazy shit could get if no one gave a single fuck about balance.
 

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