Eador Genesis

[Malakal]

Guys, I'm really trying to make each of the basic character classes work as a starting hero. Scout is easymode, warrior is well doable when I get some armour on him and use him for tanking and commander is OK after he gets 3 levels or so and his army begins to dwarf that of your enemies.

But starting with a wizard hero? Shit, I just can't make this work. The level 1 spells just don't seem to pack enough punch to make up for him being squisher than dogshit and his tiny army being insufficient to keep him from getting smoked.

What exactly am I doing wrong here? I've managed to turn a wizard into Buttfuck McRapington when hired as my 2nd hero, but I just can't seem to make him work properly with the pissant level 1 spells. I'm trying for a summoner/necromancer type character using mainly "evil" units like barbarians and shamans as my hirelings. Tactical trips appreciated here.

I find the situation to be quite different with wizards as first hero being not only the best but also the most perspective and commanders sucking, warriors and scouts placing somewhere in between. What spell should you use? Only one first level - web and two level two - hallucinations and sleep. Thaumaturgy plus spell power and 3 berserkers is enough for a wizard to clear 3 minotaurs or 4 spiders or 4 basilisks and it can be safely done at level 3-4 of the hero, thus giving you massive level and gold advantage. All the strong high level units with massive attack stats have sucky resistance thus are your pray after you sleep and web them to fight only one at a time.

Lairs that wizard with web and sleep can easily clear: anything with basilisks, harpies, minotaurs, ogres, spiders and of course level one troops. Medusas are dangerous,a void like the plague - high resistance. In bad terrain you can fight cavalry armies. Avoid strong shooters, weak ones fall to hallucinations.

My current shard was very hard for me and I blame starting with commander hero. I changed him into priest but at level 17 he can cast... one second level spell. Wizard->commander seems way better since you get both 5 level creature slots AND 5 level spells.

Other spells I recommend: burn ammo (vs scout heroes), summon imp/hell hound/fiend/demon/devil (meatshields and devils/demons can pack quite a punch with summoning skill), basic heal (to maintain army in shape), astral energy (one for emergency purposes as a stamina giver and second turn enabler), raise ghoul (strong unit even without necromancy). Thats basically all, once you get more spells you can experiment a bit but those will carry you through the game.

Skills I recommend: spellpower (your bread and butter skill), thaumaturgy (dont focus on that unless you predict facing enemies with resistance in the range of 5-8 ie just enough to overcome with sleep/web), demonology (always good if you summon), wisdom (bonus xp AND spell slots? where is the hook?). Perfect mage for me is spellpower 3 wisdom 3 thaumaturgy 3 summoning 1 then multiclass into enchanter. Burn spells suck with the notable exception of incinerate as hero remover. Summon spells are very useful but not summon gargoyle - gargoyles suck a lot. Just stick to demons, mages wont be good anyway.

 

[Bulba]

Guys, I'm really trying to make each of the basic character classes work as a starting hero. Scout is easymode, warrior is well doable when I get some armour on him and use him for tanking and commander is OK after he gets 3 levels or so and his army begins to dwarf that of your enemies.

But starting with a wizard hero? Shit, I just can't make this work. The level 1 spells just don't seem to pack enough punch to make up for him being squisher than dogshit and his tiny army being insufficient to keep him from getting smoked.

What exactly am I doing wrong here? I've managed to turn a wizard into Buttfuck McRapington when hired as my 2nd hero, but I just can't seem to make him work properly with the pissant level 1 spells. I'm trying for a summoner/necromancer type character using mainly "evil" units like barbarians and shamans as my hirelings. Tactical trips appreciated here.

I think is a well balanced part of the game - they are all more or less equal on the starting part, it's a matter of knowing their strengths and weaknesses at the start. just as getting overpowered weapons now and then you get overpowered spells, so it's a matter of adapting your strategy to what you get at lvl 7-12. early levels (1-7) mages play pretty similar to the rest with either 2sw+healer or barbarians.

 

[DakaSha]

Malakal I find it funny as hell every time you state something as fact simply because it fits your own playing style

 

[Malakal]

Malakal I find it funny as hell every time you state something as fact simply because it fits your own playing style

I dont bother writing "all views are opinions stated by the poster and should be regarded as subjective" since its pretty obvious to me that no one can claim to be truly objective.

So you can treat my posts as such from now on if you didnt before. There are no facts, only opinions.

 

[DakaSha]

Malakal I find it funny as hell every time you state something as fact simply because it fits your own playing style

I dont bother writing "all views are opinions stated by the poster and should be regarded as subjective" since its pretty obvious to me that no one can claim to be truly objective.

So you can treat my posts as such from now on if you didnt before. There are no facts, only opinions.

Well generally I would agree but you tend to phrase things like this:

As discussed previously necromancy is way better than demonology..

When that wasn't even a general opinion.

That said I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or anything.. I just think people reading your posts should maybe be aware that what works for you isn't necessarily going to work for them no matter how sure you seem of it.

That is one of the beauties of the game though. There are shitloads of (viable) options

 

[Damned Registrations]

Mages do get an advantage in equipment terms too, since there is an event for a guy opening a sorcery shop (wands) but no equivalent for any other kind of shop.

One potentially shitty thing that really put me off using a mage though, is the fact that you desperately depend on that magic stat. If my warrior gets command or magic instead of health, no big deal, I make up the difference with minions or spells. If a wizard hits level 6 and still has 2 fucking magic, you're gonna be kinda fucked by the lack of spell slots.

 

[william blake]

What exactly am I doing wrong here?Tactical trips appreciated here.

take him

or him

and sent to the battle with

periodically renew his stamina with

soon you will find him full of medals,sometimes even with these

then you can relax behind your imba bodyguards and have a good time.
..
and serously,those talk about base classes mainly occur because of player skill level.if you find yourself skilled enough to play on expert against three overlords,you will clearly see the main idea-high level spells/units rule the game.so warrior/scout are easier(not stronger) from the start,wizard/commander are stronger at the end.(well,sometimes exept straight warrior with vampirism ).
any of four base classes are acceptable to pick at the start.and your choice depend mostly on playing style and starting conditions.but keep in mind that playing style will formed when you skilled enough.maybe dozens of shards may pass,maybe hundreds.

 

[Jasede]

Mages do get an advantage in equipment terms too, since there is an event for a guy opening a sorcery shop (wands) but no equivalent for any other kind of shop.

One potentially shitty thing that really put me off using a mage though, is the fact that you desperately depend on that magic stat. If my warrior gets command or magic instead of health, no big deal, I make up the difference with minions or spells. If a wizard hits level 6 and still has 2 fucking magic, you're gonna be kinda fucked by the lack of spell slots.

I had a guy open a chain mail shop.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Really? What alignment are you? Chainmail shops are the best imo, since they potentially have dragon scale (or quests for it), which is by far the best armor.

All I ever get is conjurers asking for help to open sorcery stores.

 

[Malakal]

Sorcery stores are useless, they dont ever sell anything good. And besides mage shouldnt use wands to hit enemies, he has to cast. Unless you are very short on gems rounds spent not casting are wasted. Knowledge stores on the other hand are the most reliable way of obtaining high level spells. I also agree that chain armor stores are the best, but mainly because unlike heavy armor it does not restrict movement.

 

[Borelli]

So i click end turn and this happens.

Can't click anywhere have to ctrl-alt-del from it. Anybody experienced this happening to him?

 

[william blake]

Sorcery stores are useless, they dont ever sell anything good

useless stores are most useful,because..no need to buy anything so kill and plunder!tons of free loot!
i use every useless store

nybody experienced this happening to him?

http://af.gog.com/forum/eador_genesis/odd_icon_locking_my_game?as=1649904300

 

[Borelli]

http://af.gog.com/forum/eador_genesis/odd_icon_locking_my_game?as=1649904300

Thank you very much that fixed it, just saw a "enemy casts fear on your province" event for the first time (did the enemy master actually cast that or is it a random event?)

 

[william blake]

"enemy casts fear on your province" event for the first time (did the enemy master actually cast that or is it a random event?)

maybe:
ritual "deadly terror"
an unnatural fear grips the hearts of all those in the province.the morale of the units is decreases by 7 .population mood is lowered for 10 turns.
(c)

 

[Malakal]

What building allows you to recruit trolls? I think someone here mentioned them being easily recruitable and I NEED some source of level 3 creatures. Just had to defeat not only a phoenix garrison but also an entire hell army with 2 devils one (slugs and spiders are really amazing for fighting bosses but I wouldnt make it without raise vampire spell...).

I have to change my opinion about acid spell. Its a level 3 spell that deals only 15 dmg but reduces defenses and this seems to be the point since it makes otherwise too strong units easily defeatable. Like a devil with a bunch of friggin archers and cavalry...

 

[Bulba]

What building allows you to recruit trolls? I think someone here mentioned them being easily recruitable and I NEED some source of level 3 creatures. Just had to defeat not only a phoenix garrison but also an entire hell army with 2 devils one (slugs and spiders are really amazing for fighting bosses but I wouldnt make it without raise vampire spell...).

I have to change my opinion about acid spell. Its a level 3 spell that deals only 15 dmg but reduces defenses and this seems to be the point since it makes otherwise too strong units easily defeatable. Like a devil with a bunch of friggin archers and cavalry...

you can recruit them at the troll lair that can be found in swamps, can't recruit them in your castle.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Just discovered that labyrinths can be used as loot pinatas in addition to minotaur recruitment stations. Nice stuff in there, and they aren't even that hard to kill tbh.

Also, regarding heavy armor, the speed penalty only really matters if you're still at base speed. 2 speed is generally plenty, especially if you have forced march or haste to fall back on.

The main issue to me is that most plate armor sold in stores is pretty crappy. Paladin set is ok (especially if you can either get the full set or get 3 without using the chestpiece) but I never see any other decent plate armor there, even though there are lots of really nice gauntlets and boots. OTOH, chain stores always seem to offer at least some veterans or hero gear, which is pretty nice. All the chest pieces are crappy things with only one or two points more defense at the cost of speed and attack. I've never seen the plate equivalent of the nice chainmail chest pieces with resistance or 6+ defenses.

 

[Excommunicator]

This game is unfortunately not nearly as fun as so many people are making out, and that's a real shame. The premise is great and I'm enjoying it for the most part, but the sense of repetition in this game is pretty extreme.

I've only played a few shards so far (with a few additional restarts at the beginning and some hero retries), but the gameplay is already repeating. I can't play more than 1-2 hours at a time before I feel the fatigue from repetitive gameplay setting in.

- The AI is pretty damn frustrating. A lot of the time it's just a shitty back and forth between 2+ armies, each with literally unlimited resources leading to doing the same capture-defend over and over.

You capture an area, put some guards there, walk away elsewhere to explore other random areas, enemy army comes along to defeat the guards you put there (a battle which it doesn't let you play to help turn the tide in your favour), they capture the area, you come back a few turns later, capture that area back, defeating the other team's guards and/or hero, put your own back there. This is basically the entire game so far. There's so much damn trash fighting. The enemy keeps churning out heroes and units faster than the player can through inexplicable means (typical AI cheat obviously), and you just keep defeating them until you eventually get to the stronghold (which is nothing more than a normal province with 50% more guards. I don't mind the AI cheating but when they cheat only for you to fight the same trash units over and over I really get tired of it fast.

- The exploration mechanic is a real misnomer. Each region has many "explorable" areas, but 90% of the time are nothing more than randomly generated sets of monsters on a small and simple generated grid. Finish it off and get some money, mana and maybe a couple of randomly generated items (that you often won't be able to use on the strongest hero, and are worthless to sell). There's just no sense of achieving anything by exploring these places most of the time. All the regions are basically the same

- Good on them for introducing all the randomised events and there are plenty of them to do, but I'm at the point where I neither read the scenarios as they come up nor do I care what I press. I usually click on whichever option uses mana because it seems there's always more of that than gold and not much you can spend it on. I read the options do things behind the scenes but I've not been able to identify any consequences so far.

- the whole "population is too scared to explore new land, need you to babysit them and waste turns with your hero on this square for 5-10 turns" is a retarded mechanic. Who would think it's a fun mechanic after seeing it in action? With dozens of provinces all running out of room, you just totally lose interest

I have no real problem with games that don't have stories or real characters etc. and I've played games like Mount&blade for probably hundreds of hours over the years, but this game uses too much generation that the absence of any characters, story or custom/scripted events/objectives just exaggerates how much the game relies on repetition of random generated content to get through.


I hope this improves as I get higher tier units because if it doesn't get some freshness later on, there's no way I'll be able to keep at it for too much longer. I want to enjoy the game more but it is very draining.

 

[DakaSha]

nope

 

[william blake]

.. but the gameplay is already repeating. I can't play more than 1-2 hours at a time before I feel the fatigue from repetitive gameplay setting in.

i would be very grateful if you name a TBS with as "repetitive" gameplay as this:

Spoiler

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74473397/1-27_swamp.mp4
sorry for russian version

 

[Ashery]

While DakaSha is leaving out any type of detail, he is largely correct.

It *will* get repetitive if you're a completionist, but that's by no means a requirement for playing. There's no reason to sit on a shard and explore every province to 100% when you've got the enemy pinned in their stronghold.

On the back and forth with the AI and guards: Build an outpost, not guards, on territories that are frequently contested. Guards are primarily useful for either wearing down an enemy hero a bit before one of your heroes engages them or, when the guards are strong enough, preventing an enemy from entering a province at all. The latter of the two is something that's more common for the AI due to their light cheating (How, exactly, they cheat I do not know, but I'm pretty certain that they do to some extent), but the player can still accomplish something similar with looted guard contracts.

I'm not sure how you're complaining about the exploration mechanic. You can discover strategic resources, treasure, features that allow you to recruit various units (Dryads, trolls, etc) that you can't recruit otherwise, and a bunch of other stuff. Having the exploration of your provinces as a requirement for their expansion is just another decision the player has to factor into their game plan. You don't *have* to explore provinces, either; Most provinces outside your core will likely never reach the 70% mark, and barely any, if any at all for that matter, will hit 100%. You can also use a secondary hero to do economic exploration.

Their stronghold is the same type of province as your stronghold. The AI simply prefers to burn a high end guard contact on their stronghold the moment they get one (Whereas the player can't really afford to do the same).

There are *definitely* consequences behind the scenes. It just doesn't spell everything out like, say, a Paradox game.

 

[Excommunicator]

While DakaSha is leaving out any type of detail, he is largely correct.

It *will* get repetitive if you're a completionist, but that's by no means a requirement for playing. There's no reason to sit on a shard and explore every province to 100% when you've got the enemy pinned in their stronghold.

I'm not a completionist by any means. I've also never seen a province reach close to 100% so that's not very relevant.

On the back and forth with the AI and guards: Build an outpost, not guards, on territories that are frequently contested. Guards are primarily useful for either wearing down an enemy hero a bit before one of your heroes engages them or, when the guards are strong enough, preventing an enemy from entering a province at all. The latter of the two is something that's more common for the AI due to their light cheating (How, exactly, they cheat I do not know, but I'm pretty certain that they do to some extent), but the player can still accomplish something similar with looted guard contracts.

Anything which doesn't have an outpost is a target for back and forth. Outposts delay the process but with the AI continually coming back with the same hero I then have to sit around for multiple turns sieging such outposts back again. Like a normal battle, except slower.

I'm not sure how you're complaining about the exploration mechanic. You can discover strategic resources, treasure, features that allow you to recruit various units (Dryads, trolls, etc) that you can't recruit otherwise, and a bunch of other stuff. Having the exploration of your provinces as a requirement for their expansion is just another decision the player has to factor into their game plan. You don't *have* to explore provinces, either; Most provinces outside your core will likely never reach the 70% mark, and barely any, if any at all for that matter, will hit 100%. You can also use a secondary hero to do economic exploration.

I'm a big fan of exploration in a game so it's more disappointment that it doesn't actually resemble exploration. It's more just a bunch of buildings sitting around full of trash parties to fight. At this early point there's rarely interesting finds. I haven't come across any interesting unit recruits yet, probably because I avoided a lot of "exploration" beyond the minimum needed to raise funds. I'll see how that changes in the future.

Their stronghold is the same type of province as your stronghold. The AI simply prefers to burn a high end guard contact on their stronghold the moment they get one (Whereas the player can't really afford to do the same).

The point being made was that the siege of a stronghold doesn't offer much than a normal trash fight other than being a bit stronger so it doesn't really break up the gameplay very much.

If they had given access to fewer units to start with and more regularly introduced more units I think it would have had a better overall effect, but only if realms had been handcrafted. Generating realms takes out the designers ability to craft interesting maps according to limited options available to the player.

It's pretty amazing about the lack of constructive (or any kind of) criticism on the Codex about this game.

 

[Bulba]

This game is unfortunately not nearly as fun as so many people are making out, and that's a real shame. The premise is great and I'm enjoying it for the most part, but the sense of repetition in this game is pretty extreme.

I've only played a few shards so far (with a few additional restarts at the beginning and some hero retries), but the gameplay is already repeating. I can't play more than 1-2 hours at a time before I feel the fatigue from repetitive gameplay setting in.

I've played games like Mount&blade for probably hundreds of hours over the years

complaining about repetitive combat for someone who spent 100h in m&b? you have some balls dear sir. maybe tb combat is not your cup of tea... after all it does require a bit of brains instead of just repetitive mouse swinging.

 

[Malakal]

While the general gameplay is indeed repetitive (start, pick a hero, raise him like a good kid, build an army, win) each map is so different, with different locations to explore and opportunities so that each game requires a different approach. Yes, mechanics stay the same and you will be battling monsters on the hex grid (does that come as a surprise in a tb game?) but each game IS different, even if a little bit. From my limited experience: had to reload a lost invasion by another master, world was totally different and so changed my tactic.

Changing the subject: how to recruit minotaurs from the labyrinth? Go for the heart?

 

[Kane]

what about the successor? it's on steam greenlight right now.

http://www.snowbirdgames.com/eador/?lang=en