From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[PorkyThePaladin]

Which is it exactly?

It is your lack of reading comprehension. 4 days is not a few tries. It's a hard boss. But the difference between Sekiro's good combat system and Elden Ring's shitty one is that the boss's attacks in the former, while difficult, chaotic, etc are not bs per se, there is no in-built 10 second feint alternating with 3-frame attacks. ER is full of shit like that.

 

[Lyric Suite]

If Elden Ring bosses require 40 tries and Sekiro do not than Elden Ring is harder. Doesn't matter if you think the bosses in Elden Ring have "unfair" move sets.

Personally, i had great fun trying to figure out Morgott. Especially that endless combo you can see at the end of the parry version i died to that four times in a row and was starting to worry as i was thinking of you lmao but then a light bulb switched and i figured all you need to do is get behind his ass and then it's easy to roll through it.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

If Elden Ring bosses require 40 tries and Sekiro do not than Elden Ring is harder. Doesn't matter if you think the bosses in Elden Ring have "unfair" move sets.

Your math is still as bad as your logic.

Bad math: 4 days 1 hour each =/= less than 40 tries

Bad logic: Sekiro doesn't offer nearly as much cheese to fight bosses, you have to do it straight up.

Personally, i had great fun trying to figure out Morgott.

We already know you have no life.

 

[Ivan]

So let me get this straight. FromSoft boss designs are bullshit because they are impossible without using cheap exploits unless you are willing to fight them 40 times. At the same time, you beat the hardest boss they ever made in a few tries (and from what i understand, Sekiro doesn't have boss deleting abilities like Elden Ring does).

Which is it exactly? Is Elden Ring actually harder than Sekiro or what am i missing here?

which boss deletes abilities?

 

[Lyric Suite]

So let me get this straight. FromSoft boss designs are bullshit because they are impossible without using cheap exploits unless you are willing to fight them 40 times. At the same time, you beat the hardest boss they ever made in a few tries (and from what i understand, Sekiro doesn't have boss deleting abilities like Elden Ring does).

Which is it exactly? Is Elden Ring actually harder than Sekiro or what am i missing here?

which boss deletes abilities?

Those spells and crazy weapon arts, stuff like those spirit ashes and so forth. I man lmao:

 

[Lyric Suite]

If Elden Ring bosses require 40 tries and Sekiro do not than Elden Ring is harder. Doesn't matter if you think the bosses in Elden Ring have "unfair" move sets.

Your math is still as bad as your logic.

Bad math: 4 days 1 hour each =/= less than 40 tries

Bad logic: Sekiro doesn't offer nearly as much cheese to fight bosses, you have to do it straight up.

I am... confused. Are you saying that in those 4 days, "1 hour" each, you smacked your head against that boss 40 times?

Once i start playing Sekiro i need to check this shit out because i have a feeling it's actually not going to be any different from Elden Ring at all. That is, bosses in Sekiro also require many tries and aside for the style of the combat there's not much difference in that sense. Actually, it may even be worse in Sekiro because in Elden Ring a lot of the time the reason some combos seem difficult is that you didn't figure out a way to get past them, where as i'm getting a sense there's nothing in Sekiro that requires forknowlede rather than skill (maybe, i don't know). That endless combo Morgott does at the end of his fight is a case in point. If i hadn't thought about circling around him i can easily forsee myself trying it for 20 times only to delcare it is impossible to dodge. From little i've seen of Sekiro there doesn't seem to be anything like that, but i don't want to talk out of my ass about a game i haven't played yet so we'll see when i get to it. The fact is in those "40 tries" a lot of the time when one lacks is not skill but knowledge. Indeed, in order not to spoil the discovery process i always prefer to fight bosses in the dark, with zero prior knowledge on how they work. I only broke that rule once by looking up how to get pass Malenia's WaterFowl attack as i was too burned out to spend a week trying to figuring it out of my own. If the "40 tries" is what bothers you there's no reason not to watch a guide on how to beat a boss, at which point all you are left with is developing the necessary skills, but that to me seems like ruining much of the fun.

 

[Diggfinger]

Lyric Suite when playing Souls games, do you figure out all stat/gear combos yourself, do you meticulously research it, or is it a combo of both?

For DS1 I played 33h refusing to read anything (and getting my ass kicked), before finally giving in and finding build-advice..

 

[Cyberarmy]

Figuring out all of those by yourself is half of the fun.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Lyric Suite when playing Souls games, do you figure out all stat/gear combos yourself, do you meticulously research it, or is it a combo of both?

For stats, weapons etc, it's whatever goes. Sometimes i try to figuring that stuff out for myself, sometimes i read guides. Maybe i shouldn't but i'm too old to care at this point and those games are time consuming enough as they are. Maybe if i was 15 with all the time in the world i'd try not to spoil that stuff but at this point i don't really care as much.

With bosses though i have an hard rule not to spoil them and always figuring them out on my own, without watching guides or other people fighting them until i do them myself first.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Anyway, bonking my way to actually finishing this lmao:

 

[Lyric Suite]

Ok, i think this one is the strongest version of this thing before the duo one in the Consecrated Snowfields, so i figured i should record at least one, but instead of the usual boring bonking i'm gonna try something new:



BTW, i missed that parry because i was caressing the tringger a bit too hard lmao. When i'm parrying sometimes i start to rub or lightly tab the trigger in anticipation and this time i put too much force, probably because i was feeling a bit of tension. Also i think you can probably i-frame your way through that aoe he does when he summons his horse but i'll let it slide, don't feel like trying it again on my first attempt he kept getting stuck in the clutter and trees and i couldn't parry him off the horse. I think i picked the worst possible spot to do this.

Also, check out my dramatic turn lul.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Last one of its kind, not sure what else to do with it except for even MOAR bonking. The bonkest yet:

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

If Elden Ring bosses require 40 tries and Sekiro do not than Elden Ring is harder. Doesn't matter if you think the bosses in Elden Ring have "unfair" move sets.

Your math is still as bad as your logic.

Bad math: 4 days 1 hour each =/= less than 40 tries

Bad logic: Sekiro doesn't offer nearly as much cheese to fight bosses, you have to do it straight up.

I am... confused.

Oh, we know...

Are you saying that in those 4 days, "1 hour" each, you smacked your head against that boss 40 times?

I wish public education was better, so I wouldn't have to break down basic logic for you. Or taught the difference between then and than.

You: "If Elden Ring bosses require 40 tries and Sekiro do not than Elden Ring is harder."

So your logical implication is that me beating the final Sekiro boss in 4 days 1 hour each is less than 40 tries. Which doesn't make any logical sense. Typical Sekiro boss run = ~several minutes.

Once i start playing Sekiro i need to check this shit out because i have a feeling it's actually not going to be any different from Elden Ring at all. That is, bosses in Sekiro also require many tries and aside for the style of the combat there's not much difference in that sense. Blah... blah... blah...

Bosses in Sekiro do require many tries. The difference is, much like DaS1, overcoming them is just a matter of commitment and time, learning their patterns, etc. In ER, this won't generally help you because a lot of attacks are set up to require great reflexes or cheese. Or maybe playing it 40 times in a row, who knows what someone might learn then. Some of us have a life though.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Ok let me see if i get this. Having to try a boss many times is bad game design, except when it isn't (DS1, Sekiro), in which case it's fine. And there's games like Elden Ring where bosses are designed in a way that you CAN'T learn them despite doing many tries, because of unfair or bullshit tactics the boss uses, but if you do manage to get past them wituout using cheat tactics, it's because you have no life.

And this motherfucker wants to talk to me about logic.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Ok let me see if i get this. Having to try a boss many times is bad game design, except when it isn't (DS1, Sekiro),

Now you are just strawmanning in a transparent attempt to deflect attention from your weak logical skills. Nice try, bre.

in which case it's fine. And there's games like Elden Ring where bosses are designed in a way that you CAN'T learn them despite doing many tries, because of unfair or bullshit tactics the boss uses, but if you do manage to get past them wituout using cheat tactics, it's because you have no life.

Yep. I already told you many times (not my fault you are a bit slow, eh), ER has many bosses alternating between very slow delays and super-fast attacks. This kind of stuff is only doable via dodging/parrying for young people with excellent reflexes, so most people resort to cheese, which ER has a lot of, since the designers themselves clearly know it's not doable by the average person.

Now, if some retard (for argument's sake, let's say his name somewhat rhymes with Pyrrhic Dimwit) has such a distinct absence of things to do in life, that he chooses to play ER 10 times. Maybe in that time, he will have faced each enemy so many times, he will have noticed some shit he can do to fight them more effectively which might not be evident to normal people who only play a game once. That in no way invalidates the points above, no matter how butthurt you get.

And this motherfucker wants to talk to me about logic.

Like casting pearls before swine.

 

[Lyric Suite]

This is you right here:

Bosses that can only be beat after "40 tries" is bad game design. Ok, yes, i did beat a Sekiro boss after 40 tries, but that's not bad because bosses in Sekiro don't have bullshit moves that are only doable by young people with excellent reflexes like Elden Ring. You literally can't do those bosses legitimately and can only rely on cheap tactics unless you are a 15 year old spaz kid. Ok yes you can do those bosses legitimitely but that's only because you are a no life loser who has played the game 10 times of course you can do those dodges/parries if you redo the same boss 40 times!

Every time you get cornered in a contradiction the argument changes. How convenient. The last time you challenged me to do Morgott "legitimately", saying it was impossible to do so unless you were a 15 year old spazlord. So i did him legimitely, and now you are telling me it doesn't count since i have no life and have played the game "10 times".

The young people shit is particularly hilarious given games are MADE for young people by definition. Boomers like us that still play this shit in our adulthood are not supposed to be the target audience. But then again it's also a nonsense argument since if dodging/parrying boss attacks in Elden Ring is a matter of reflexes, that means that if you have bad reflexes you can replay the game a hundred times it's still going to be impossible. The truth is that Elden Ring doesn't actually require rare reflexes, it just requires correct knowledge of the moveset and the attacks you are trying to avoid or deflect. When you say that designers know that the game is impossible for the "average" player, hence why they added so many ways to bypass bosses in Elden Ring, the average player in question happens to be your 15 year old with lighting fast reflexes. That shows that the issue is not some kind of physical limitation, but knowledge and know-how, which is precisely what makes the Souls formula special to me. I don't have the rare reflexes of a 15 year old spaz kid, but i do have the talent to "figure" out game mechanics, probably more so than a lot of actual 15 year olds on account of all the many years i've been playing games compared to them.

Now if you want to see what an actual natural virtuoso (I.E., actual rare talent) can do, this is probably a good example:



But as far as the "average" player goes, the game is still beatable "legitimately", but you probably do require the proverbial 40 tries. For those who just want to beat the boss first try and move on, there's your cheap tactics. The designers didn't put that stuff in there because they reasoned the game was "impossible" for the average player, they just gave an option for those not willing to face the challenge. It's how the Souls games do difficutly settings (which is a far better way than merely messing with numbers and the hell with balance which is how difficutly settings work in most games. Just give everything more damage and health and call it hard setting!).

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

This is you right here:

Bosses that can only be beat after "40 tries" is bad game design. Ok, yes, i did beat a Sekiro boss after 40 tries, but that's not bad because bosses in Sekiro don't have bullshit moves that are only doable by young people with excellent reflexes like Elden Ring. You literally can't do those bosses legitimately and can only rely on cheap tactics unless you are a 15 year old spaz kid. Ok yes you can do those bosses legitimitely but that's only because you are a no life loser who has played the game 10 times of course you can do those dodges/parries if you redo the same boss 40 times!

Every time you get cornered in a contradiction the argument changes. How convenient. The last time you challenged me to do Morgott "legitimately", saying it was impossible to do so unless you were a 15 year old spazlord. So i did him legimitely, and now you are telling me it doesn't count since i have no life and have played the game "10 times".

The young people shit is particularly hilarious given games are MADE for young people by definition. Boomers like us that still play this shit in our adulthood are not supposed to be the target audience. But then again it's also a nonsense argument since if dodging/parrying boss attacks in Elden Ring is a matter of reflexes, that means that if you have bad reflexes you can replay the game a hundred times it's still going to be impossible. The truth is that Elden Ring doesn't actually require rare reflexes, it just requires correct knowledge of the moveset and the attacks you are trying to avoid or deflect. When you say that designers know that the game is impossible for the "average" player, hence why they added so many ways to bypass bosses in Elden Ring, the average player in question happens to be your 15 year old with lighting fast reflexes. That shows that the issue is not some kind of physical limitation, but knowledge and know-how, which is precisely what makes the Souls formula special to me. I don't have the rare reflexes of a 15 year old spaz kid, but i do have the talent to "figure" out game mechanics, probably more so than a lot of actual 15 year olds on account of all the many years i've been playing games compared to them.

Now if you want to see what an actual natural virtuoso (I.E., actual rare talent) can do, this is probably a good example:



But as far as the "average" player goes, the game is still beatable "legitimately", but you probably do require the proverbial 40 tries. For those who just want to beat the boss first try and move on, there's your cheap tactics. The designers didn't put that stuff in there because they reasoned the game was "impossible" for the average player, they just gave an option for those not willing to face the challenge. It's how the Souls games do difficutly settings (which is a far better way than merely messing with numbers and the hell with balance which is how difficutly settings work in most games. Just give everything more damage and health and call it hard setting!).

Lol, you think by typing up wall-of-text shit you are going to get out of looking like an idiot, don't ya? Bad news for you then.

Let me tldr; this one more time for you, my ever-slow friend: no matter how many times you play ER due to lack of life, you will never prove that regular players can dodge/parry ER bosses regularly. That ship has sailed ever since you completed ER the first time, by using cheese, just like everyone else on this side of e-sports community. Now apply cream to where it hurts on the butt.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Fuck, those Zamor guys can one shot me with the ritual shield talisman and everything lmao. Holy shit late game is going to be fun as SL1.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Both damage and defences are extremely bad now lmao. Even my cheese spells don't do much anymore:



I still totally cheesed the big guy with the whip by luring him to the cave and just pop my head around the corner long enough to cast Night Maiden's Mist only to run away as fast as i could. Took about 4 casts.

Can't wait to get to the area with all the giants, big hands, t-rex crows etc.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Is there honor among thieves? Sure there is, just... the other honor:

 

[Skinwalker]

Started my very first playthrough of Elder Nig. I think I'll go with a mage build, as I have never used spells in souls games before, and in a huge open-world game I don't really care if killing enemies is too easy, so long as it's fast.

Of course, as per usual, I started as a "deprived" class, so I actually need to find a magic catalyst and a spell... with no idea where to look.

Elder Nig!

 

[Lyric Suite]

Lmao, really? REALLY? Another one of those things? This time i tried something else that wasn't bonking but honestly, this has to be one of the worst recycling in the game yet. After the putrid one in Dragonbarrow i figured that was it, after that they basically became field enemies but nope, they had to stick one in a late game dungeon, and a regular one at that, not even something like a frost version or whatever:

 

[Lyric Suite]

Started my very first playthrough of Elder Nig. I think I'll go with a mage build, as I have never used spells in souls games before, and in a huge open-world game I don't really care if killing enemies is too easy, so long as it's fast.

Of course, as per usual, I started as a "deprived" class, so I actually need to find a magic catalyst and a spell... with no idea where to look.

Elder Nig!

Keep in mind that Elden Ring isn't like previous Souls games where starting gear only matters for like the first two hours. Unless you know exactly where to get the stuff you need, you probably won't be casting spells for a big while. Also, if you like the fashion of the starting armors, keep in mind you won't be able to access a lot of them until WAY into the game.

If you want to play a mage from the get go, either go look up some spoilers or resign yourself to the fact for a big portion of the early game you'll be just smacking people in the head. That, or start as an astrologer or something. Up to you.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Stop pestering the lyrics guy and let him finish so he can stop posting already so this thread dies finally until the DLC comes out and after that we can forget this game ever happened. Ok?

 

[Skinwalker]

Started my very first playthrough of Elder Nig. I think I'll go with a mage build, as I have never used spells in souls games before, and in a huge open-world game I don't really care if killing enemies is too easy, so long as it's fast.

Of course, as per usual, I started as a "deprived" class, so I actually need to find a magic catalyst and a spell... with no idea where to look.

Elder Nig!

Keep in mind that Elden Ring isn't like previous Souls games where starting gear only matters for like the first two hours. Unless you know exactly where to get the stuff you need, you probably won't be casting spells for a big while. Also, if you like the fashion of the starting armors, keep in mind you won't be able to access a lot of them until WAY into the game.

If you want to play a mage from the get go, either go look up some spoilers or resign yourself to the fact for a big portion of the early game you'll be just smacking people in the head. That, or start as an astrologer or something. Up to you.

Actually, after carefully reading the hints I bought from the first merchant, I got the sense that there might be something magic-related in the Waypoint ruins (the area where two giants are pulling a cart on chains). There's a couple of mages in that area, and one of them dropped a glintstone staff. Also, in the process of trying to stealth my way through the Gatefront ruins multiple times, I ended up getting a sword from one of the soldiers (no more big stupid club for me).

I still had no spells though, and had to resort to looking it up online, only to discover that in the same Waypoint ruins there's an underground area with an optional boss, and a spell merchant behind it.

So now, after a mere four hours of play, I am a certified mage with at least two decent spells and a sword for when the mana runs out. Good thing I was putting all my levels into Intelligence.