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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Rhobar121

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,289
Dark Souls 2 is crap, it had some good ideas but for every good idea it introduced 2 shitty ones.
Tying stats to dodge ability was a stupid idea. It didn't even affect the animation speed, but the number of iframes, which is even stupider than it might seem.
Combine this with the worst hitboxes from From Software games (only Titanite Demon from DS1 can compare to them), estuses that are almost useless in combat due to their speed of use, unlimited and cheap healing items that deny the danger during exploration.
Random hordes of enemies appearing out of your ass that would put Elden Ring to shame and missing animation frames of some enemies (Heidge Knights) also don't help the game.

I also forgot the amount of shitty bosses is above average.
Putting a bunch of mobs in a room and giving them a huge health bar automatically doesn't make it a boss fight.
The amount of trash mobs during boss fights was never fun.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,080
Location
Romania
Tying stats to dodge ability was a stupid idea. It didn't even affect the animation speed, but the number of iframes, which is even stupider than it might seem.
Difficulty customization left up to the player. Git gud.
Combine this with the worst hitboxes from From Software games (only Titanite Demon from DS1 can compare to them)
Matter of opinion, from Demon's souls to ER shit boxes are present, they're not unique to DkS2.
estuses that are almost useless in combat due to their speed of us
Difficulty complaint, git gud.
cheap healing items that deny the danger during exploration.
True but it also allows the player to customize their difficulty together with the covenant of champions and the ADP stat.
Random hordes of enemies appearing out of your ass
Present in abundance in Roll Slop 3 and to an absurd degree in ER to the point where in catacombs for example when you reach a lever you know there's those thrall midget enemies on walls jumping on you bleeding you to death.
Ganks are present in DkS1 as well with enemies hanging off the ledges in undead burg for example climbing up and attacking you.

missing animation frames of some enemies (Heidge Knights)
I did notice something wrong with those knights with how fast they attacked, that's probably the explanation. Still, only one enemy type in the game that has this issue. All of a sudden game is unplayable?
Considering how many tools and options you have this is a non issue.
 

Barbarian

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
8,262
Why are the tarnished regular sized humans while the empyreans, demigods and servants/peasants/aristocrats(i.e: original population of the lands between) are strangely tall and lanky humanoids with very long limbs? That is one graphic design decision I don't get.
It's like that thing where in DS3 (the best game FromSoft has ever developed) when you meet Gael as an NPC he is normal-sized, but when you fight him as a boss he's super tall.

Also, if you want a lorefag explanation, Marika is not a human but a "numen", and so her children are also at least half-numen. Maybe they're just taller by nature.

Well if you pick numen at character preset you don't have a giant long limbed avatar. There is really no lore explanation in the end. Melina is by all accounts a demigod, as is Millicent, and they are PC sized in the game world.

Still dully noted - "boss characters are big" is just a fromsoft convention in every game. Actually harkens to 8 and 16 bit oldschool gaming if you think about it.

finished-super-castlevania-snes-1991-v0-23cv90gqcm7a1.png


maxresdefault.jpg
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,924
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
As for the moveset, I don't think they're the best weapons unless you pair them with bleed, rot, poison, frost status effects.
Yep, Eleonora has innate bleed and Peeler can be buffed with blackflame which makes each hit take 3% of the target life above the default damage per hit. This is huge.

So yeah, the condition effects coupled with their speeds is what breaks the game.
 

Rhobar121

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,289
By this logic, you cannot criticize any aspect of the game.
Tying stats to dodge ability was a stupid idea. It didn't even affect the animation speed, but the number of iframes, which is even stupider than it might seem.
Difficulty customization left up to the player. Git gud.
The fact that you literally have to waste 20 levels to get a DS1 level dodge is a shitty design, you literally feel bad developing your character.
Of course, you can beat SL1, but it is the most frustrating experience of all From Software games.
Of course, you can always put on shields and not give a damn (like most other mechanics in the game).
Combine this with the worst hitboxes from From Software games (only Titanite Demon from DS1 can compare to them)
Matter of opinion, from Demon's souls to ER shit boxes are present, they're not unique to DkS2.
Of course, shitty hitboxes are not exclusive to DS2, with the difference that it is most visible in this game.
In DS1 there was a unique enemy (he didn't respawn after being killed) in the form of a large headless demon. What set him apart from all other enemies in the game was his hitboxes, which were so bad that he could damage you when you were several meters away from him at the time of the hit. This was memorable mainly because he stood out in this respect from other enemies.

In DS2, the number of such enemies is exceptionally large.
Enemies that hit you even if they physically shouldn't be able to stand up, grabbing a player who is at the back of the mob are just some of the situations.

What compounds the problem is the outrageously low base iframes value when dodging.
In other games, the player might not even notice it due to the rather generous number of iframes.
Random hordes of enemies appearing out of your ass
Present in abundance in Roll Slop 3 and to an absurd degree in ER to the point where in catacombs for example when you reach a lever you know there's those thrall midget enemies on walls jumping on you bleeding you to death.
Ganks are present in DkS1 as well with enemies hanging off the ledges in undead burg for example climbing up and attacking you.
The difference is that in the case of DS1 there were almost always hordes of single-shot mobs, in DS2 the game can throw a horde of relatively strong mobs at you (e.g. the shitty ambush in Harvest Valley).
Comparing Elden Ring also makes no sense due to the number of additional tools at the player's disposal, but even then there are practically no hordes of dangerous enemies.
missing animation frames of some enemies (Heidge Knights)
I did notice something wrong with those knights with how fast they attacked, that's probably the explanation. Still, only one enemy type in the game that has this issue. All of a sudden game is unplayable?
Considering how many tools and options you have this is a non issue.
It's not just these knights, although they're probably the most famous shitty enemy in the game due to the fact that they appear so early in the game.
 

Rhobar121

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,289
As for the moveset, I don't think they're the best weapons unless you pair them with bleed, rot, poison, frost status effects.
Yep, Eleonora has innate bleed and Peeler can be buffed with blackflame which makes each hit take 3% of the target life above the default damage per hit. This is huge.

So yeah, the condition effects coupled with their speeds is what breaks the game.
Poleblade is so good because it hits several times with each strike. If I remember correctly, it's probably 8 (or more) times using ash of war.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,080
Location
Romania
By this logic, you cannot criticize any aspect of the game.
Like I said Best Souls 2.
The fact that you literally have to waste 20 levels to get a DS1 level dodge is a shitty design, you literally feel bad developing your character.
Of course, you can beat SL1, but it is the most frustrating experience of all From Software games.
Of course, you can always put on shields and not give a damn (like most other mechanics in the game).
It's more RPG than action (get a hint of where you're posting this right now) which means stats have higher importance and value.
Like I said you have multiple options and tools that allow you to face any challenge. And yeah, use shields, perfectly viable, just like in ER.
Of course, shitty hitboxes are not exclusive to DS2, with the difference that it is most visible in this game.
In DS1 there was a unique enemy (he didn't respawn after being killed) in the form of a large headless demon.
Of course they're more visible in in this game since it went through dev hell. And even so it innovated, it added things, some good, some bad. People just consider the bad while ignoring the soul of the game and the passion that went into it.
In DS1 there was a unique enemy (he didn't respawn after being killed) in the form of a large headless demon. What set him apart from all other enemies in the game was his hitboxes, which were so bad that he could damage you when you were several meters away from him at the time of the hit. This was memorable mainly because he stood out in this respect from other enemies.
IDK wtf, we're talking about Best Souls 2 not DkS1.
In DS2, the number of such enemies is exceptionally large.
No, especially when compared to Roll Slop 3 and ER. The example with the catacombs was not singular. You have ulcerated tree spirits, death rite birds, bats and others that appear when you approach apparently a single item just lying there in the middle of nowhere.
Enemies that hit you even if they physically shouldn't be able to stand up
Provide an example of this as I don't remember. You talk about the hollows that lie down and get up to attack you?
grabbing a player who is at the back of the mob
That's the famous mimic. It's not a hitbox issue it's an animation issue. Couldn't understand the technical explanation of it but the short version is that orientation of the chest and the orientation of the actual enemy is not the same. Plus in some cases when the player rolls through the grab attack, instead of the grab animation playing it instead queues up and lets the rolling animation finish before the grab animation starts. That's why it "teleports" the character. It's a bug and have no excuse they didn't fix it.
The difference is that in the case of DS1 there were almost always hordes of single-shot mobs, in DS2 the game can throw a horde of relatively strong mobs at you (e.g. the shitty ambush in Harvest Valley).
Comparing Elden Ring also makes no sense due to the number of additional tools at the player's disposal, but even then there are practically no hordes of dangerous enemies.
Wrong, most of the time they're 1 or 2 shot enemies and in your example of Harvest Valley (unclear which one) you have access to "funnels" most of the time where you can deal with the enemies one by one. Plus you have alluring skulls or yearn to lure them.
Comparison to ER is adequate as before ER DkS2 was known to offer the most amount of tools and options to subdue the threats in the game. Weapons, spells, consumables, armors with different effects etc.
It's not just these knights, although they're probably the most famous shitty enemy in the game due to the fact that they appear so early in the game.
Cool, when you find out more let me know.
About the knights, you can avoid them and if you can't then cheese them or summon, or use spells or other consumables or simply come back later once you gave some way to deal with them.
And the game is nonlinear, go explore other areas, grab everything you can, level up, come back, push through.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,660
The fact that you literally have to waste 20 levels to get a DS1 level dodge is a shitty design, you literally feel bad developing your character.

You get 60-80 more levels per playthrough in DSII than you would in DS but oh no losing 20 levels to ADP stat will ruin your build. Unplayable!
 

Skinwalker

biggest fear: vacuum cleaner
Patron
Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
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Yessex
Well if you pick numen at character preset you don't have a giant long limbed avatar. There is really no lore explanation in the end. Melina is by all accounts a demigod, as is Millicent, and they are PC sized in the game world.
That doesn't mean much, you can also pick a "Nox" preset and get a normal-sized humanoid with grey skin, but the actual Nox in-game are noticeably taller... well, some of them, at least.
 

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,549
Location
Hyperborea
Keep going guys, haven't completed Dark Souls 2 Is The Worst bingo. "Elevator to Iron Kep ain't riiiiiight!!!" :tearsandboogers
 

Barbarian

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
8,262
If I begin the game now and stop after beating Mohg - i.e: having a "dlc ready" save everything should work right?

I mean apparently they are not adding anything to base game areas.
 

Skinwalker

biggest fear: vacuum cleaner
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Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Village Idiot
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If I begin the game now and stop after beating Mohg - i.e: having a "dlc ready" save everything should work right?

I mean apparently they are not adding anything to base game areas.
I'm 99.9% certain you could have a post-ending cutscene character, and everything will still work fine.
 

H. P. Lovecraft's Cat

SumDrunkCat
Shitposter
Joined
Feb 7, 2024
Messages
2,872
If I begin the game now and stop after beating Mohg - i.e: having a "dlc ready" save everything should work right?

I mean apparently they are not adding anything to base game areas.
You seem scared of it for some reason. Have you had bad experiences in the past with From Soft DLC? They always work fine! I'm sorry, your questions are strange.
 

Rhobar121

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,289
Worst case scenario, you could just start ng+ and complete the quest for Varre within 2 hours and get teleported to Mogh.
 

Cheesedragon117

Educated
Joined
Sep 13, 2023
Messages
349
Location
Florida
If I begin the game now and stop after beating Mohg - i.e: having a "dlc ready" save everything should work right?

I mean apparently they are not adding anything to base game areas.
Yes, but you'll have to beat Starscourge Radahn, too. I recommend just beating the whole game and reaching between Rune Level 120 to 150. That way you'll have a completed build ready to face anything the DLC can throw at you. You don't have to worry about being overlevelled, since they're using a new difficulty scaling mechanic to the DLC, independent of Rune Level.

I mean apparently they are not adding anything to base game areas.
I don't know what got you started thinking that would be the case. Do you know what an expansion is? Just that, an expansion of the base game.
 

H. P. Lovecraft's Cat

SumDrunkCat
Shitposter
Joined
Feb 7, 2024
Messages
2,872
If I begin the game now and stop after beating Mohg - i.e: having a "dlc ready" save everything should work right?

I mean apparently they are not adding anything to base game areas.
Yes, but you'll have to beat Starscourge Radahn, too. I recommend just beating the whole game and reaching between Rune Level 120 to 150. That way you'll have a completed build ready to face anything the DLC can throw at you. You don't have to worry about being overlevelled, since they're using a new difficulty scaling mechanic to the DLC, independent of Rune Level.

I mean apparently they are not adding anything to base game areas.
I don't know what got you started thinking that would be the case. Do you know what an expansion is? Just that, an expansion of the base game.
Is he worried he's going to be overpowered or underpowered? Or is he worried he wont have immediate access to the expansion? My phylosophy on expansions and video games as a whole is to dive in penis first. Imagine your cock is a mighty sword and the game is at your mercy. That's how I beat video games.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,547
I don't know what got you started thinking that would be the case. Do you know what an expansion is? Just that, an expansion of the base game.

They changed the base game in Dark Souls 2 so there's a precedent.

That said, there was no indication they were gonna change anything in the base game, not that i can think of.
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
17,730
Location
Dutchland
I hope we can also upgrade/equip Torrent, my trusty steed somehow.
I hope they give different mounts, WoW style. One of the things I liked in world of warcraft.
Guild Wars 2 has a system with a variety of mounts that could actually work in Elden Ring. There's one with a long horizontal leap, one with high vertical jumps, one that gets a speed boost over water and also protects from environmental hazards (though Torrent already does that), one that can teleport forward short distances, one that's really fast at the cost of turning like shit, one that's actually useful in a melee fight, one with actual cannons strapped to it and can also do slam attacks, and two different flying ones (though I don't expect these to show up any time soon).
 

Rhobar121

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,289
I don't know what got you started thinking that would be the case. Do you know what an expansion is? Just that, an expansion of the base game.

They changed the base game in Dark Souls 2 so there's a precedent.

That said, there was no indication they were gonna change anything in the base game, not that i can think of.
It's hard to say, it would probably be safest to just start the DLC in ng+.
On the other hand, if they planned to change something in the basic version of the game, they would probably announce it.
Of course, I'm not counting things like balance because it will definitely be modified.
 

H. P. Lovecraft's Cat

SumDrunkCat
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I don't know what got you started thinking that would be the case. Do you know what an expansion is? Just that, an expansion of the base game.

They changed the base game in Dark Souls 2 so there's a precedent.

That said, there was no indication they were gonna change anything in the base game, not that i can think of.
They changed story shit. Anybody in their right mind doesn't play DkS2 for the storytelling. Same could be said for the rest butt especially 2.
 

H. P. Lovecraft's Cat

SumDrunkCat
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We just need to sit down and have a reasonable discussion about how DkS2 was that natural progression for the franchise and the franchise was fucked in the ass afterwards. The perfect template had been laid down for the perfect ARPG and instead of expanding on perfection they flushed it all down the toilet and we get Retard Souls. You're all partially to blame. Had you been as vocal as I was we would have got a real Dark Souls 3, or even a 2.5 would have been stellar. You all are responsible for setting this franchise on the wrong course. Now I'm stoked for DD2 and not giving a single fuck about the ER expansion. I don't care because it will be shittier Dark Souls.
 

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