From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Old Hans]

It's funny you say that because in my opinion ER feels way more mythical and "dreamlike" than any other From game (haven't played BB). Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER. The lands between also aren't a real place, it's a world where people can't die for probably 10.000 years at this point, and there has been nothing but wars going on for the last 5.000 years.

It reminds me of if Tolkien's Valinor if the gods got bored and started a big civil war.

 

[Skinwalker]

It's funny you say that because in my opinion ER feels way more mythical and "dreamlike" than any other From game (haven't played BB). Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER. The lands between also aren't a real place, it's a world where people can't die for probably 10.000 years at this point, and there has been nothing but wars going on for the last 5.000 years.

It reminds me of if Tolkien's Valinor if the gods got bored and started a big civil war.

More like Beleriand after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

 

[Old Hans]

It's funny you say that because in my opinion ER feels way more mythical and "dreamlike" than any other From game (haven't played BB). Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER. The lands between also aren't a real place, it's a world where people can't die for probably 10.000 years at this point, and there has been nothing but wars going on for the last 5.000 years.

It reminds me of if Tolkien's Valinor if the gods got bored and started a big civil war.

More like Beleriand after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

but valinor is populated by beings who cannot leave arda, ever. so they get into this endless civil war that never ends

 

[Skinwalker]

It's funny you say that because in my opinion ER feels way more mythical and "dreamlike" than any other From game (haven't played BB). Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER. The lands between also aren't a real place, it's a world where people can't die for probably 10.000 years at this point, and there has been nothing but wars going on for the last 5.000 years.

It reminds me of if Tolkien's Valinor if the gods got bored and started a big civil war.

More like Beleriand after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

but valinor is populated by beings who cannot leave arda, ever.

So is Beleriand.

 

[9ted6]

Soulsgames have a great deal of non-verbal storytelling embedded in the level design. It is a far more superior form of storytelling than loredumps, verbal diarrhea out of every NPC's mouth, and in-game wikipedias filled with textual diarrhea.

This works for the most part in DS1 but most Soulsgames after it get too far up their own asses in pretentious and obtuse worldbuilding.

Ultimately it still feels like even DS1's lore wasn't planned too much and From's long been relying on players to extrapolate and make up crazy theories about how things are so they can turn around and say they always planned it that way.

 

[Multidirectional]

Japanese devs usually go for something because it seems cool to them, not because there's some real meaning behind it. I'm used to things outside gameplay being more style than substance in their games. All this obsessing about lore in Souls always seemed like pointless waste of time to me. I prefer to just enjoy the mysterious atmosphere on the surface rather than delve deeper into it and then ruin it by finding out it's actually all retarded gibberish, like in most jap games. And with Souls it's pretty obvious that they are just reusing same gimmicks over and over. Everything is always mysterious, grim and sad and almost all NPCs you encounter must meet some tragic end if you bother with their storylines. Over and over.

 

[Damned Registrations]

To me the problem with ER's world is the ratio of random weirdness to grounded characters. Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

I mean, it's rather telling that one of the more straightforward aspects of ER are the giant insectoid space skeletons invading the world. That's the part that makes sense compared to other shit.

 

[Multidirectional]

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

Because shit looks cool, obviously. There doesn't need to be any other reason for it. Having things make sense is a much lower priority to them than having awesome looking visual designs. And I'm not trying to imply they should be doing it differently either, they have best artists in the business so might as well play to their strengths. Great storytellers From Soft aren't. Just stop thinking too much about it and enjoy the spectacle. And stay the fuck away from those cringe lore videos people.

 

[9ted6]

Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

That's a good way to put it. When everything is weird and fantastical, nothing is.

 

[cvv]

Japanese devs usually go for something because it seems cool to them, not because there's some real meaning behind it.

I've ever played only a handful of Jap games - Souls, Nioh 1/2, Phantom Pain, Dragon's Dogma - but this seems to be a common thing indeed.

Even Jappy movies and shows that I've seen - and even those I loved, like Kurosawa movies, studio Ghibli movies, Ghost in the Shell etc. - seems to be massively skewed towards style over substance.

Now the style is often fucking amazing, no diss there, but I can't imagine a Jappo filmmaker making a straight up narrative, great epic story movie like the Lord of the Rings. It'd be all fucked up and half the movie would be long close ups on eyes or characters slowly sharpening their swords.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Even Jappy movies and shows that I've seen - and even those I loved, like Kurosawa movies, studio Ghibli movies, Ghost in the Shell etc. - seems to be massively skewed towards style over substance.

Definitely a thing. Throwing in some hollow references to a religion or mythology is to Japanese media what a shoehorned romance is to western media. They even did it to LotR. After seeing so much of it I just kind of tune it out. FMA is probably one of the most well written, long form epic narratives I can think of, and even there they couldn't resist throwing in the ol' "Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim" and naming a bunch of villains after the seven deadly sins.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Elden Ring does have a sort of dreamlike/nightmarish feel about it

Same for all FS games, it's part of their appeal imo.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Aesthetics is definitely an element of the FromSoft magic. Especially when compared to current year westoid pastel colored, plastic looking Pixar shit.

 

[Stoned Ape]

That's a good way to put it. When everything is weird and fantastical, nothing is.

See, I have that emotional response when playing BG3. Nothing in that game feels special because you start in the planes fighting Illithid while red dragons are flapping about, Githyanki are falling from the sky, and Cambions are featured in the first few combat encounters. On top of that just about every companion is a level 1 chosen of a god, vampire, hero of the realms, or long-term fighter in the blood war. It just cheapens the experience and feels like a competition to see who can be the most special.

I don't get the same feeling from ER, though. Although there's a lot of strange and weird stuff, for me it actually enriches the experience and rewards exploration. I'm able to detach my logical analysis of what I'm seeing and just let it flow over me and react with wonder at seeing something unexpectedly odd. I do read a lot of Weird and New-Weird fiction so maybe that's part of why it clicks with me so well, that seeks to draw out and present things from the subconscious in a similar fashion.

 

[Silverfish]

I can't imagine a Jappo filmmaker making a straight up narrative, great epic story movie like the Lord of the Rings. It'd be all fucked up and half the movie would be long close ups on eyes or characters slowly sharpening their swords.

Exactly. The kind of stuff that we'd never do.

 

[MasPingon]

Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

That's a good way to put it. When everything is weird and fantastical, nothing is.

This statement is only half truth. Take Planescape Torment and Tides of Numenera, one does it right, the other does it wrong. In both everything is weird and fantastical, the difference is the first slowly introduces you to the game world and doesn't try to crowd you with all incredible stuff. It's odd, but you as a player can understand the laws of this universe, it works perfectly fine by it's own logic so you don't feel alienated. Elden Ring weirdness is similar, this universe also have clear laws that player can uncover if he wants, game doesn't forces you to do it. You can as well hack and slash through the game if you are not interested in it and still enjoy it. Even if you don't dig much into the story, the game tells you enough to keep the world believable and keep you engaged - elden ring destroyed, everything is fucked now, go kill those guys who took runes, fix it.

 

[Dr1f7]

I can't imagine a Jappo filmmaker making a straight up narrative, great epic story movie like the Lord of the Rings. It'd be all fucked up and half the movie would be long close ups on eyes or characters slowly sharpening their swords.

Exactly. The kind of stuff that we'd never do.

hey that movie's goated fuck u

 

[9ted6]

Aesthetics is definitely an element of the FromSoft magic. Especially when compared to current year westoid pastel colored, plastic looking Pixar shit.

Which I think is another area ER fails at honestly. So much of the game is washed over in an FNV piss filter.

 

[Silva]

Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

That's a good way to put it. When everything is weird and fantastical, nothing is.

This statement is only half truth. Take Planescape Torment and Tides of Numenera, one does it right, the other does it wrong. In both everything is weird and fantastical, the difference is the first slowly introduces you to the game world and doesn't try to crowd you with all incredible stuff. It's odd, but you as a player can understand the laws of this universe, it works perfectly fine by it's own logic so you don't feel alienated. Elden Ring weirdness is similar, this universe also have clear laws that player can uncover if he wants, game doesn't forces you to do it. You can as well hack and slash through the game if you are not interested in it and still enjoy it. Even if you don't dig much into the story, the game tells you enough to keep the world believable and keep you engaged - elden ring destroyed, everything is fucked now, go kill those guys who took runes, fix it.

Wait, wut? Are you really comparing ER to Planescape?

 

[Skinwalker]

To me the problem with ER's world is the ratio of random weirdness to grounded characters. Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

A giant cathedral city in unfathomably tall mountains with enormous giants guarding the hallways, where you are lifted up by a pair of brain gargoyles, which is the home of this realm's gods, and where you navigate by operating a giant spinning bridge, is "perfectly sensible" and grounded to you? Not to mention a giant breasted lady on a couch who upon closer inspection turns out to be an illusion cast by a spiky-helmet wearing guy with snake legs.

Soulsscrubs seem to be extremely inconsistent in what their tiny brains find "random weirdness vs grounded". Nothing in these games is "grounded", everything is mythical and dreamlike/nightmarish. I feel sorry for you if you can't be immersed in a game unless it replicates the drudgery of the mundane world, and pops up a thousand-world description for every "unusual" thing that you discover.

 

[9ted6]

To me the problem with ER's world is the ratio of random weirdness to grounded characters. Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

A giant cathedral city in unfathomably tall mountains with enormous giants guarding the hallways, where you are lifted up by a pair of brain gargoyles, which is the home of this realm's gods, is "perfectly sensible" and grounded to you?

You forgot the part where it's all intentionally dreamlike because it's a magical illusion. Same reason there's a giant titty lady you talk to, she's designed to entice potential Chosen Undead because it's all being run as a facade by Gwyndo. In reality the city's mostly dark and almost completely devoid of life.

It's a big city in the mountains because it was built by giants. Stuff like that's believable in fantasy, same for dwarves making huge underground cities because it's at least somewhat based in reality and practicality.

Teleporting to the surface of Mars to fight a gigantic knight who rides a tiny horse isn't practical, explained or believable at all, it's entirely dreamlike weird nonsense which doesn't really work because the entire game is dreamlike nonsense. At least in DS1 you could explain some of the weirder things with the fact that Lordran is distorted because of the fire dying out while the rest of the world is a pretty normal fantasy setting where nothing particularly crazy goes on. There's a contrast of normalcy to the weirdness which ER lacks.

 

[MasPingon]

Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

That's a good way to put it. When everything is weird and fantastical, nothing is.

This statement is only half truth. Take Planescape Torment and Tides of Numenera, one does it right, the other does it wrong. In both everything is weird and fantastical, the difference is the first slowly introduces you to the game world and doesn't try to crowd you with all incredible stuff. It's odd, but you as a player can understand the laws of this universe, it works perfectly fine by it's own logic so you don't feel alienated. Elden Ring weirdness is similar, this universe also have clear laws that player can uncover if he wants, game doesn't forces you to do it. You can as well hack and slash through the game if you are not interested in it and still enjoy it. Even if you don't dig much into the story, the game tells you enough to keep the world believable and keep you engaged - elden ring destroyed, everything is fucked now, go kill those guys who took runes, fix it.

Wait, wut? Are you really comparing ER to Planescape?

Silva critically failed reading comprehension check and took 3 hit points, knocked down and hurt himself.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Souls stuff is just action figurines/tabletop minis type of stuff, don't overthink it. TBH overthinking Souls stuff is what leads us to hacks like vaati having a career

 

[Skinwalker]

You forgot the part where it's all intentionally dreamlike because it's a magical illusion. Same reason there's a giant titty lady you talk to, she's designed to entice potential Chosen Undead because it's all being run as a facade by Gwyndo. In reality the city's mostly dark and almost completely devoid of life.

The illusion replicates what the city was before its downfall. Gwyndolin did not invent the sun, or giant warriors, or his sister out of thin air.

It's a big city in the mountains because it was built by giants. Stuff like that's believable in fantasy, same for dwarves making huge underground cities because it's at least somewhat based in reality and practicality.

Teleporting to the surface of Mars to fight a gigantic knight who rides a tiny horse isn't practical, explained or believable at all, it's entirely dreamlike weird nonsense which doesn't really work because the entire game is dreamlike nonsense

You keep comparing apples to oranges. Why not compare locations to locations, and boss fights to boss fights? And where did you find yourself teleporting to the surface of Mars? Are you tripping out?

At least in DS1 you could explain some of the weirder things with the fact that Lordran is distorted because of the fire dying out while the rest of the world is a pretty normal fantasy setting where nothing particularly crazy goes on.

And in Elden Ring you you could explain some of the weirder things with the fact that the Lands Between are distorted because of the Elden Ring shattering while the rest of the world is a pretty normal fantasy setting where nothing particularly crazy goes on.

Except that the whole world is affected by the fire going out (Northern Undead Asylum is far from Lordran), as well as by the Elden Ring shattering. It's exactly the same scenario, you just keep arbitrarily coming up with rationalizations for one while just as arbitrarily being snooty and dismissive of the other. Perfect example of nostalgia-driven grognardism.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

I can't imagine a Jappo filmmaker making a straight up narrative, great epic story movie like the Lord of the Rings. It'd be all fucked up and half the movie would be long close ups on eyes or characters slowly sharpening their swords.

Exactly. The kind of stuff that we'd never do.