From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[mediocrepoet]

I agree with the gist of your post. I just don't think the Lands Between is a good example of that Lovecraftian style. Specially when Yharnam already exists and does that much better.

ER's outer gods feel unnecessary and not fitting the euro fantasy around. I'd rather they went full "medieval Lovecraft" instead of this Arthurian-Norse-Welsh fairytale kitchen sink.

I think the outer gods could be developed in an interesting way. It really depends what they do going forward, say in the DLC and any sequels.

They're pretty much just a weird blip in the base game though.

 

[Nathir]

So in ER universe the pope is a tortoise? Whatever....and people wonder why no one takes any lore in FS games seriously.
Oh well, at least the erdtree and the moon go brrrr.

In all seriousness it's not a pope hat, I doubt there were popes in ER world. It just serves a ceremonial function. Like in any culture master of the ceremony got to have a cool hat.

Emphasis mine. What exactly is "ER world"? Because all I see is a hodge-podge of different colored lands with caravans crossing to nowhere. This kind of semi-formed, dreamlike worldbuilding works in DS and BB cause their worlds are mythical and dreamlike in nature. It doesn't work in ER cause it's open-world attempts to communicate across the feeling of a real, inhabited place and it fails miserably at it, never feeling like a real place (the caravans feel artificial) nor entirely mythical or dreamlike. In the end, all it feels is bland.


(of course, ER blandness still feels better than 90% of the industry due to From art direction being so good but you know what I mean)

It's funny you say that because in my opinion ER feels way more mythical and "dreamlike" than any other From game (haven't played BB). Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER. The lands between also aren't a real place, it's a world where people can't die for probably 10.000 years at this point, and there has been nothing but wars going on for the last 5.000 years.

 

[cvv]

Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER.

Not bland but I like Silva's kitchen sink.

It's like Kwans trying to cook something about Jap's mythology, throwing in Chink, Korean and Vietnamese legends in the mix, plus Native American for good measure.

 

[9ted6]

It's just a matter of preference. I think Lovecraftian storytelling is extremely boring and predictable so the lucid dreamlike way the setting works and the lore's explained don't engage me at all nor does that BB or DS3 style twist of everything you've done being meaningless because outer moon god and endless cycles respectively.

 

[Skinwalker]

Soulsgames have a great deal of non-verbal storytelling embedded in the level design. It is a far more superior form of storytelling than loredumps, verbal diarrhea out of every NPC's mouth, and in-game wikipedias filled with textual diarrhea. It rewards exploration, paying attention to the actual world, basking in the rich and dreamlike atmosphere, and simultaneously implements the two main principles of prestigiousness:

1. Show, don't tell.
2. Brevity is the soul of wit.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Fascinating stuff. But why is he a tortoise and has a pope hat on it?

Every RPG is better with giant turtles:

 

[Old Hans]

It's funny you say that because in my opinion ER feels way more mythical and "dreamlike" than any other From game (haven't played BB). Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER. The lands between also aren't a real place, it's a world where people can't die for probably 10.000 years at this point, and there has been nothing but wars going on for the last 5.000 years.

It reminds me of if Tolkien's Valinor if the gods got bored and started a big civil war.

 

[Skinwalker]

It's funny you say that because in my opinion ER feels way more mythical and "dreamlike" than any other From game (haven't played BB). Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER. The lands between also aren't a real place, it's a world where people can't die for probably 10.000 years at this point, and there has been nothing but wars going on for the last 5.000 years.

It reminds me of if Tolkien's Valinor if the gods got bored and started a big civil war.

More like Beleriand after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

 

[Old Hans]

It's funny you say that because in my opinion ER feels way more mythical and "dreamlike" than any other From game (haven't played BB). Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER. The lands between also aren't a real place, it's a world where people can't die for probably 10.000 years at this point, and there has been nothing but wars going on for the last 5.000 years.

It reminds me of if Tolkien's Valinor if the gods got bored and started a big civil war.

More like Beleriand after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

but valinor is populated by beings who cannot leave arda, ever. so they get into this endless civil war that never ends

 

[Skinwalker]

It's funny you say that because in my opinion ER feels way more mythical and "dreamlike" than any other From game (haven't played BB). Bland is the last thing I'd use for ER. The lands between also aren't a real place, it's a world where people can't die for probably 10.000 years at this point, and there has been nothing but wars going on for the last 5.000 years.

It reminds me of if Tolkien's Valinor if the gods got bored and started a big civil war.

More like Beleriand after the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

but valinor is populated by beings who cannot leave arda, ever.

So is Beleriand.

 

[9ted6]

Soulsgames have a great deal of non-verbal storytelling embedded in the level design. It is a far more superior form of storytelling than loredumps, verbal diarrhea out of every NPC's mouth, and in-game wikipedias filled with textual diarrhea.

This works for the most part in DS1 but most Soulsgames after it get too far up their own asses in pretentious and obtuse worldbuilding.

Ultimately it still feels like even DS1's lore wasn't planned too much and From's long been relying on players to extrapolate and make up crazy theories about how things are so they can turn around and say they always planned it that way.

 

[Multidirectional]

Japanese devs usually go for something because it seems cool to them, not because there's some real meaning behind it. I'm used to things outside gameplay being more style than substance in their games. All this obsessing about lore in Souls always seemed like pointless waste of time to me. I prefer to just enjoy the mysterious atmosphere on the surface rather than delve deeper into it and then ruin it by finding out it's actually all retarded gibberish, like in most jap games. And with Souls it's pretty obvious that they are just reusing same gimmicks over and over. Everything is always mysterious, grim and sad and almost all NPCs you encounter must meet some tragic end if you bother with their storylines. Over and over.

 

[Damned Registrations]

To me the problem with ER's world is the ratio of random weirdness to grounded characters. Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

I mean, it's rather telling that one of the more straightforward aspects of ER are the giant insectoid space skeletons invading the world. That's the part that makes sense compared to other shit.

 

[Multidirectional]

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

Because shit looks cool, obviously. There doesn't need to be any other reason for it. Having things make sense is a much lower priority to them than having awesome looking visual designs. And I'm not trying to imply they should be doing it differently either, they have best artists in the business so might as well play to their strengths. Great storytellers From Soft aren't. Just stop thinking too much about it and enjoy the spectacle. And stay the fuck away from those cringe lore videos people.

 

[9ted6]

Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

That's a good way to put it. When everything is weird and fantastical, nothing is.

 

[cvv]

Japanese devs usually go for something because it seems cool to them, not because there's some real meaning behind it.

I've ever played only a handful of Jap games - Souls, Nioh 1/2, Phantom Pain, Dragon's Dogma - but this seems to be a common thing indeed.

Even Jappy movies and shows that I've seen - and even those I loved, like Kurosawa movies, studio Ghibli movies, Ghost in the Shell etc. - seems to be massively skewed towards style over substance.

Now the style is often fucking amazing, no diss there, but I can't imagine a Jappo filmmaker making a straight up narrative, great epic story movie like the Lord of the Rings. It'd be all fucked up and half the movie would be long close ups on eyes or characters slowly sharpening their swords.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Even Jappy movies and shows that I've seen - and even those I loved, like Kurosawa movies, studio Ghibli movies, Ghost in the Shell etc. - seems to be massively skewed towards style over substance.

Definitely a thing. Throwing in some hollow references to a religion or mythology is to Japanese media what a shoehorned romance is to western media. They even did it to LotR. After seeing so much of it I just kind of tune it out. FMA is probably one of the most well written, long form epic narratives I can think of, and even there they couldn't resist throwing in the ol' "Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim" and naming a bunch of villains after the seven deadly sins.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Elden Ring does have a sort of dreamlike/nightmarish feel about it

Same for all FS games, it's part of their appeal imo.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Aesthetics is definitely an element of the FromSoft magic. Especially when compared to current year westoid pastel colored, plastic looking Pixar shit.

 

[Stoned Ape]

That's a good way to put it. When everything is weird and fantastical, nothing is.

See, I have that emotional response when playing BG3. Nothing in that game feels special because you start in the planes fighting Illithid while red dragons are flapping about, Githyanki are falling from the sky, and Cambions are featured in the first few combat encounters. On top of that just about every companion is a level 1 chosen of a god, vampire, hero of the realms, or long-term fighter in the blood war. It just cheapens the experience and feels like a competition to see who can be the most special.

I don't get the same feeling from ER, though. Although there's a lot of strange and weird stuff, for me it actually enriches the experience and rewards exploration. I'm able to detach my logical analysis of what I'm seeing and just let it flow over me and react with wonder at seeing something unexpectedly odd. I do read a lot of Weird and New-Weird fiction so maybe that's part of why it clicks with me so well, that seeks to draw out and present things from the subconscious in a similar fashion.

 

[Silverfish]

I can't imagine a Jappo filmmaker making a straight up narrative, great epic story movie like the Lord of the Rings. It'd be all fucked up and half the movie would be long close ups on eyes or characters slowly sharpening their swords.

Exactly. The kind of stuff that we'd never do.

 

[MasPingon]

Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

That's a good way to put it. When everything is weird and fantastical, nothing is.

This statement is only half truth. Take Planescape Torment and Tides of Numenera, one does it right, the other does it wrong. In both everything is weird and fantastical, the difference is the first slowly introduces you to the game world and doesn't try to crowd you with all incredible stuff. It's odd, but you as a player can understand the laws of this universe, it works perfectly fine by it's own logic so you don't feel alienated. Elden Ring weirdness is similar, this universe also have clear laws that player can uncover if he wants, game doesn't forces you to do it. You can as well hack and slash through the game if you are not interested in it and still enjoy it. Even if you don't dig much into the story, the game tells you enough to keep the world believable and keep you engaged - elden ring destroyed, everything is fucked now, go kill those guys who took runes, fix it.

 

[Dr1f7]

I can't imagine a Jappo filmmaker making a straight up narrative, great epic story movie like the Lord of the Rings. It'd be all fucked up and half the movie would be long close ups on eyes or characters slowly sharpening their swords.

Exactly. The kind of stuff that we'd never do.

hey that movie's goated fuck u

 

[9ted6]

Aesthetics is definitely an element of the FromSoft magic. Especially when compared to current year westoid pastel colored, plastic looking Pixar shit.

Which I think is another area ER fails at honestly. So much of the game is washed over in an FNV piss filter.

 

[Silva]

Yeah, DS1 has the weird snake men, and some other weird shit like a bunch of the bosses (why the fuck is Quelagg a spider lady? The game doesn't even have spiders!) but it also has a ton of areas that are perfectly sensible, like the entirety of Anor Londo.

In ER you can't go 10 feet without asking 'what the fuck?' Why catacombs guarded by giant automated chariots? Why is this guy gluing bodyparts onto himself? Why these mages wear rocks for hats? Why these caravans going nowhere carrying nothing? Why this random demihuman in a cave has a fucking sword made of the fucking elden ring? Why are giant, animated mausoleums a thing? Or the 10 fingered spider hands?

That's a good way to put it. When everything is weird and fantastical, nothing is.

This statement is only half truth. Take Planescape Torment and Tides of Numenera, one does it right, the other does it wrong. In both everything is weird and fantastical, the difference is the first slowly introduces you to the game world and doesn't try to crowd you with all incredible stuff. It's odd, but you as a player can understand the laws of this universe, it works perfectly fine by it's own logic so you don't feel alienated. Elden Ring weirdness is similar, this universe also have clear laws that player can uncover if he wants, game doesn't forces you to do it. You can as well hack and slash through the game if you are not interested in it and still enjoy it. Even if you don't dig much into the story, the game tells you enough to keep the world believable and keep you engaged - elden ring destroyed, everything is fucked now, go kill those guys who took runes, fix it.

Wait, wut? Are you really comparing ER to Planescape?