From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Damned Registrations]

I mean, you can do that yourself by wearing it as a glove. Obviously the dragon powers he wanted was like, immortality and shit. I mean ffs, the player can breathe fire after eating like, one dragon heart.

Like, why are you even trying to defend this? He obviously turned himself into a grotesque monster so they could show you a grotesque monster. He didn't even try to be symmetrical. Someone drew this thing and they came up with this lame explanation afterwards in about 5 minutes.

This isn't 'ooh, the surgery was botched, what a tragedy' but rather 'So you decided to inject crisco into your lips with a syringe...'

 

[Skinwalker]

I mean, you can do that yourself by wearing it as a glove.

That's just a gameplay element. Obviously, you can't really "wear" dragon heads and make the breathe fire. Grafting is what reanimated it.

 

[Ravielsk]

That's just a gameplay element. Obviously, you can't really "wear" dragon heads and make the breathe fire. Grafting is what reanimated it.

Codex should have a "JEW" tag for people that dodge every question and point like you do.

 

[Nathir]

I mean, I don't consider giants to be all that crazy to begin with. It's well within the bounds of generic fantasy. Same with giant, hostile animals, people throwing fireballs and magic healing potions.

The guy gluing bodyparts onto himself for no discernable benefit needs an explanation. Like, something something acquire the powers of dragons... but he obviously didn't, and most of those body parts are from other people the same size as him or even smaller. It's not even at the level of 'I stuck my brain on the side of a giant' logic. It's just straight up 'lol, this is gross and this guy must be crazy!'

The turtle thing is far worse. He's the only one in the whole fucking game, so it's not like there's a race of sentient turtles and he happens to be one of them. And the fact that he talks isn't the only weird thing, they had to tack on that he's also the head of a fucking church, wears a fancy hat somehow AND he's an amazing spellcaster? Fuck it, why not make him a master swordsman and pilot of the world's only airship while you're at it? Give him a gun too, that'll make him memorable!

Lets not pretend this shit is at the same level in DS1. Probably the weirdest shit there is the covenants, like the talking cat and the wormheads and Frampt/Kaathe (at least those two are established as some kind of weird ancient race). Sif fights you with a sword, okay, weird. But she's also grounded in something familiar: A dog waiting at it's owner's grave, being territorial over it.

The design of ER was very clearly just coming up with random shit and shoving it wherever they felt things were a little empty. In DS1 you have various random monsters with the vague explanation of 'demons.' Flimsy, but whatever, demons are inherently a chaotic and random sort of creature, and they have a place they came from and are related to the flame of chaos. In ER you have shit that kinda fits, like the puppets made by mages and the bugs made from the rot, and you've got shit that doesn't belong, like the giant hands, a turtle pope, T-Rex dogs, worm faces, and so on. It's the mark of a team that didn't want to throw away any ideas or content they had, regardless of whether or not it fit with what they had. And even that could be excused to a point with excuses like them being illusions (painted world is a good example) but they just... didn't bother with so much of it. Like, there is no way in fucking hell the guy who designed that cool sword mage of rune fragments did it with the intention to have it left in a random cave with zero context. It was clearly supposed to be attached to some sort of boss or questline that was never finished. ER is like this woven rug that looks amazing in the middle and gets frayed and crappy once you reach the edges.

The explanation for grafting is that he is weak and he wants to absorb the power from others to get stronger. That's all. You're overthinking an incredibly simple line of logic for no reason at all. The side effects don't matter to Godrick and most people ingame refer to grafting as cursed anyway. Where's the problem? You're just saying "why would anyone do this if it makes him look like this".

A general trend I noticed with the same people crying about how the game makes no sense is that they like to overthink stuff, and don't have a lot of imagination. Like saying this: "and you've got shit that doesn't belong, like the giant hands, a turtle pope, T-Rex dogs, worm faces", why doesn't it belong? Because you say so? "The turtle thing is far worse." What, how? How is an NPC being a turtle even a problem?

 

[processdaemon]

The turtle thing is far worse. He's the only one in the whole fucking game, so it's not like there's a race of sentient turtles and he happens to be one of them.

Don't speak too soon, the DLC will be out any day now and there's still a chance that the shadowy puppet masters behind everything are the sentient turtles.

 

[Ravielsk]

How is an NPC being a turtle even a problem?

Its a problem because the game does not even acknowledge that there is anything different about it. Fantasy is all about being somewhat outlandish and strange but that does not mean you just get to throw random nonsense at the wall with 0 pre-amble or explanation. Final fantasy was getting rightfully flack for this for over a decade because simply throwing out weird names and creatures without ever even acknowledging they at least are a deviation from the players norm is the definition of bad writing.

The turtle is the poster boy for this because none of his dialog even acknowledges that he is even a different species than the player. He does not mention he is the last of his kind or that he is the only one of his kind. He will mention that people forgot what even is the church he presides and acknowledge the player might not know about it but he completely skips over himself.

 

[Lyric Suite]

He is not random though. This is the turtle talisman description:

A talisman in the shape of a green turtle.
Raises stamina recovery speed.
Turtles are known as a nutritious ingredient, symbolic of inexhaustible power.
However, those who hold turtles to be wise creatures consider the practice of eating their meat to be barbarous.

If you read this and thought this was just some fluff, you clearly have not understood how FromSoft works. This was clearly a set up for the player. I even suspected early on when reading this there was gonna be something more to the turtles just based on that description. Turns out, the reason some people hold the turtles to be "wise" is that they are. Turtle pope isn't a different "spieces". He is just a turtle like any other, one that has grown old enough to bring that wisdom into fruition and gain sentience in the process (or maybe all turtles are aleady self-aware, who is to say?). All the turtles you met and killed had the potential to be like the turtle pope is the implication i gathered from the talisman. FromSoft knows stamina regeneration is highly sought after by players but... there's a price to pay.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Aesthetics is definitely an element of the FromSoft magic. Especially when compared to current year westoid pastel colored, plastic looking Pixar shit.

Which I think is another area ER fails at honestly. So much of the game is washed over in an FNV piss filter.

I'm pretty sure it's a "golden" filter. Elden Ring isn't Dark Souls the world is some kind of divine or paradisiacal realm that went awry nowhere does it says it was ever supposed to be grim dark like Souls.

 

[Nathir]

How is an NPC being a turtle even a problem?

Its a problem because the game does not even acknowledge that there is anything different about it. Fantasy is all about being somewhat outlandish and strange but that does not mean you just get to throw random nonsense at the wall with 0 pre-amble or explanation. Final fantasy was getting rightfully flack for this for over a decade because simply throwing out weird names and creatures without ever even acknowledging they at least are a deviation from the players norm is the definition of bad writing.

The turtle is the poster boy for this because none of his dialog even acknowledges that he is even a different species than the player. He does not mention he is the last of his kind or that he is the only one of his kind. He will mention that people forgot what even is the church he presides and acknowledge the player might not know about it but he completely skips over himself.

Good job, you've empirically proven Miriel being of the turtle race is random nonsense and bad writing.

Is this what autism feels like?

 

[Ravielsk]

Good job, you've empirically proven Miriel being of the turtle race is random nonsense and bad writing.

Now you are just being a retard for the sake of being a retard. This is not about what race he is or is not. Its about the game, the NPC itself, not even lamp-shading the obvious incongruence between the player and the turtle. Besides this is not even about the turtle, he is just the most obvious example.

An example for how the game just throws shit at the player with 0 effort put into at least somewhat... well not even explain it but put it into some kind of context besides "woah weird". The turtle is the ideal example because its a friendly NPC players will use quite often and yet the devs could not be bothered to add a singular line explaining... well anything that is of interest about him.

You know there is a spot between not explaining why the eldrich god has 4 heads and every backdrop item having its own encyclopedia entry. You can share basic information with the reader/player without literary explaining every minute detail. Its a normal part of communication, verbal or non-verbal. From software just needlessly treats everything as if even the most obvious detail is somehow an extra or a great eldrich mystery you need to dig for.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

New game announcement? Or just Erdtree pimping?

 

[Stoned Ape]

There's also the whole Turtle World set of creation myths concerning them being wise creatures/symbols of life.

"The World Turtle, also called the Cosmic Turtle or the World-bearing Turtle, is a mytheme of a giant turtle (or tortoise) supporting or containing the world. It occurs in Hindu mythology, Chinese mythology, and the mythologies of some of the indigenous peoples of the Americas."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Turtle

These myths have been referenced by Terry Pratchett and Stephen King in contemporary fiction. It wouldn't surprise me if Miriel and the '3 Wise Beasts' tower puzzles were a riff on these traditions.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Wise turtles have been a thing in fantasy for a long time. There's a "wise" giant turtle in The NeverEnding Story for instance.

The slow paced nature of turtles plus their longevity makes it easy to associate them with wisdom.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Wise turtles can be a thing (I mean, any sentient animal can be a thing, there's a spirit animal for pretty much anything) but to play it off as if he's less noteworthy than fucking Thops, who gives some background on who the fuck he is, makes no sense. And being wise doesn't automatically make you also the leader of an organization of humans, or allow you to wear clothing. Or the ability to speak or read books with your giant stompy turtle feet.

Like, when you meet Iji, he acknowledges that he's a fucking giant because it's rather noteworthy. Ranni explains that she's a doll because it's noteworthy. Muriel just carries on like he's in the middle of a city full of turtles wearing human clothing and you're the strange one. Reminds me of when you run into the sorc teacher frozen in that dungeon and she just doesn't acknowledge your existence and you can't talk to her about it elsewhere either. Felt like I was going crazy.

 

[Lyric Suite]

You guys are overthinking it.

Muriel doesn't need to be explained. His very existence is his defining character. He is a turtle who lived long enough to grow so wise he was even able to mediate between the various principalities of the world he is in. I don't see why he needs more elaboration than that. It's a surprise on the player they set up with the text you get in the turtle talisman. FromSoft settings may be more "grounded" compared to a lot of lol animu shit Japanese developers seem to like but it's still high fantasy.

If i had to "speculate", Miriel may come from the time before the Erdree and for all we know the regular turtles are a devolution of what turtles used to be (wise and intelligence creatures).

 

[Damned Registrations]

The game references approximately EVERYTHING. Muriel doesn't get a pass because of a fucking talisman's flavour text.

You sound like people trying to defend nu-star wars plot holes. "Gee, you're overthinking it, it's fantasy hurr durr!"

 

[Cheesedragon117]

I'm sorry, but I can't take seriously anyone arguing that Elden Ring or any Fromsoft game would benefit from being less interesting, less creative, less fantastical and less original. Is this seriously where this thread is at now? Do y'all want everything to be stagnant uncreative American slop?

Reminds me of when you run into the sorc teacher frozen in that dungeon and she just doesn't acknowledge your existence and you can't talk to her about it elsewhere either. Felt like I was going crazy.

Good chance is that you weren't paying attention. Although I do admit, this example in particular is a bit convoluted, since you need to progress Sellen's quest by finding two of the three primordial sorceries before she lets slip that you've been talking to an illusion, and that her real body is trapped in the Witchbane Ruins. Would have been nice to have an extra line of dialogue in case you found her real body early.

 

[MasPingon]

This theory that he is really old turtle so he became wise does not appeal to me. I think it's just one of those one-purpose creatures created by Greater Will. Like Two Fingers(guardians of the faith), shadowbound beast(defenders of Empyreans), he is there to perform ceremonies. I agree it might be strange at first without a context, it also bothered me a bit during my first playthrough.

 

[Damned Registrations]

ould have been nice to have an extra line of dialogue in case you found her real body early.

Why would you not find her real body before the primordial sorceries? One is in some incredibly obvious ruins relatively nearby, while the sorceries are hidden and scattered through the rest of the game. On top of that, finding her real body the first thing you'll think to do is go back to where you found her before to ask about it. If you find a high level sorcery but you can't use it yet, you've got no real incentive to go back to her.

FS's quest design is just really, really shit when it comes to stuff like this. Like, you don't need to make everything an unmissable trail of bread crumbs, but you could avoid making shit ridiculously unlikely to find naturally. Shove her body in some ruins in Leyndell or the mountaintops. Problem solved, now you'll likely find it much later than the sorceries.

Edit: You don't even actually get these as fucking books, so even if you WILL use them, there's no incentive to go back to the lady after finding them.

 

[gabel]

Skimming the last couple of pages, your time is probably better spent watching Vaati lore videos than reading the posts here thoroughly (not that I'd do either).

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Got the Femboy DLC. Now it's time to wait. I'll make a new character most likely.

 

[Skinwalker]

I'm sorry, but I can't take seriously anyone arguing that Elden Ring or any Fromsoft game would benefit from being less interesting, less creative, less fantastical and less original. Is this seriously where this thread is at now? Do y'all want everything to be stagnant uncreative American slop?

This. A whole bunch of midwit dullards itt are foaming at the mouth because the game isn't "grounded", "realistic", "systematized" and "explained" enough.

 

[9ted6]

I'm sorry, but I can't take seriously anyone arguing that Elden Ring or any Fromsoft game would benefit from being less interesting, less creative, less fantastical and less original. Is this seriously where this thread is at now? Do y'all want everything to be stagnant uncreative American slop?

This. A whole bunch of midwit dullards itt are foaming at the mouth because the game isn't "grounded", "realistic", "systematized" and "explained" enough.

Do you have any point to make besides calling people retards for not liking goofy high fantasy?

Good job, you've empirically proven Miriel being of the turtle race is random nonsense and bad writing.

From software just needlessly treats everything as if even the most obvious detail is somehow an extra or a great eldrich mystery you need to dig for.

They do that so people like vaati can have careers while From can also benefit by saying the insane fanfiction theories people come up with were planned all along so they seem smarter. Win/win.

 

[Skinwalker]

Its a problem because the game does not even acknowledge that there is anything different about it. Fantasy is all about being somewhat outlandish and strange but that does not mean you just get to throw random nonsense at the wall with 0 pre-amble or explanation.

But it isn't random nonsense. The world of Elden Ring is extremely magical and mythical from the get-go. All kinds of beings inhabit this world, and one of them is a giant turtle who serves as a pastor in a church. Another is a type of large wolf-fox that can actually cast glintstone sorceries (we don't hear Radagon's puppy talk, but that doesn't mean he can't talk).

It takes a special kind of stupid to get hung up on this one thing, as if a pointless text blurb that says "Miriel is a member of the ancient sub-species of giant turtles, Tortillus Magnificus Sapienza, who are extremely intelligent by nature and often serve as pastors in various churches in the Lands Between, sadly most of them are now extinct" would do anything but waste the player's time and annoy anyone with a >120 IQ.

Do you have any point to make besides calling people retards for not liking goofy high fantasy?

No, calling people retards for being dim and demanding MOAR midwit-oriented "explanation" slop (as if there isn't enough of that in every mainstream WRPG) is entirely sufficient.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Lore discussion is the gayest shit. Elden Ring is a fighting game!