From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[cvv]

 

[gabel]

Combat used to be better, and we had actual level design.

You're not wrong that the level design used to be better. The ER DLC is an improvement on the original in that regard and there's still nothing near the level of Sen's Fortress or Blightown. The combat is the same though, just with more options for the player, and with more complexity to the enemies, because people would get tired of fighting Gwyn for 15 years.

Notice how every boss fight takes place in a pretty much plain, flat arena nowadays?
I'm tired of that.

The combat is more complex, but not better. It's become spastic to the point of parody, and wouldn't work with actual level design. Where Dark Souls still felt grounded in reality, and things like the Hydra, O&S or Artorias were highlights, everything is equally retarded over the top now. Same with the story: Frampt was cool because he was mysterious, now everything is pants on head retarded, two or three fingers in the ass, maidenless, huh? Same with level design: where I was wowed seeing the Moonlight Butterfly from Darkroot, or by the decent down the Great Hollow, now everything is way too large and impressive, but ultimately empty.

What's left is the "git gud"-meme, as evidenced by this thread, and nothing else.

 

[abija]

Just because I could easily win fights by holding up a giant shield and poking shit with a rapier while watching my green bar go up and down doesn't mean they're good fights. Everyone defending ER's combat has no experience playing anything with actual decent combat with multiple viable options and variety in challenges and playstyles.

Elden Ring has multiple viable options and variety and challenges and playstyles. And I'm 100% sure in any of the games you think about some styles are way easier to play than others, just like in ER. What those games might lack is entitled arm chair devs to shit on them on every corner because there's not enough audience.

The difference between 20 vigor (which is what you'll actually have at level 1 for most of the game) and 60 is generally dying in 2 attacks instead of 3, and is quite often literally nothing because everything is massive overkill. That is certainly 'barely anything' in my book, compared to the kinds of advantages you build up in Nioh, Monster Hunter, and other action rpgs, which include things like life stealing, invincibility shields, and immunity to status effects and types of attacks.

The stats in ER exist mostly to make retards that can't follow basic fucking logic get excited about numbers going up.

It's the difference between people that play it like a rpg not even having to learn most bosses and people that think they need to read guides to find out the angles to roll out abilities or to find out a broken build.

The combat is more complex, but not better. It's become spastic to the point of parody, and wouldn't work with actual level design. Where Dark Souls still felt grounded in reality, and things like the Hydra, O&S or Artorias were highlights, everything is equally retarded over the top now.

"Grounded in reality", seriously? These games have always been about "wow" factor. You face cool, crazy shit, as over the top as it gets and try to overcome it.

 

[Odoryuk]

I went and emulated demons souls after finishing the DLC, it was the most visceral gaming whiplash I’ve ever experienced. What went so wrong over the years?

They got better at creating action (and arguably got better at art direction and atmosphere, even though Demon's Souls already excells in these fields)

 

[Bloodeyes]

Of all the base game enemies to copy over why this one? I HATE these things.

 

[Sunri]

update is coming

 

[Ravielsk]

update is coming

And its a complete nothing burger that just nerfs the player and fixes some minor bugs.

Patch Notes 1.12.3

PvP-exclusive balance adjustments​

• Decreased the damage and damage animation of the shearing vacuum effect of the “Swift Slash” Skill.

General balance adjustments​

• Increased the Intelligence scaling of the Carian Sorcery Sword and slightly decreased the base damage.
• Extended the throwing attacks range for the following weapons:
• Smithscript Dagger / Smithscript Cirque
• Changed the placement of the bosses in the re-fight against the Golden Hippopotamus and Commander Gaius bosses to be in the same position as in the first fight.

Bug Fixes​

• Fixed a bug that caused the Rolling Sparks Skill to deal more damage than expected.
• Fixed a bug that caused the Rolling Sparks and Wall of Sparks Skills to deal no damage while some special effects were applied to the player.
• Fixed a bug where some special effects of a right-handed weapon would also be applied to the following Weapon Skills when cast with the left hand:
  • Feeble Lord's Frenzied Flame
  • Discus Hurl
• Fixed a bug where successfully guarding while attacking using the Thrusting Shield weapon type would consume less stamina than intended.
• Fixed a bug that prevented players from cancelling the attack recovery of two-handed strong attacks by rolling for certain weapons of the Backhand Blades weapon type.
• Fixed a bug that caused the Lightning Perfume Bottle and Frenzyflame Perfume Bottle weapons to deal double damage under certain circumstances.
• Fixed a bug where the Arcane scaling of the Bloodfiend's Arm weapon was higher than intended when setting an affinity. The status buildup of the heavy attack was also reduced.
• Fixed a bug where the Faith scaling of the Gazing Finger weapon was not being applied correctly.
• Fixed a bug where the damage animation of some attacks of the Fire Knight's Greatsword against players was different than expected.
• Fixed a bug where the attack affinity of some attacks of the Fire Knight's Greatsword were different than expected.
• Fixed a bug that caused some affinities for the following weapons to be higher than intended:
  • Smithscript Dagger
  • Smithscript Cirque
  • Smithscript Axe
  • Smithscript Greathammer
  • Smithscript Spear
  • Golem Fist
  • Smithscript Shield
• Fixed a bug that caused enemies to heal when the Maximum HP reduction gradual HP reduction effect applied by Black Knife Tiche wore off.
• Fixed a bug that caused summoned NPCs to behave differently than expected under certain circumstances.
• Fixed a bug that where the unblockable bite attack of the Golden Hippopotamus boss would connect with players more easily than intended.
• Fixed a bug that caused text to display differently than expected.
• Several other performance improvements and bug fixes.

Possible unstable performance fixes​

• For the PS5 version of the game, unstable framerate may be improved by using the "Rebuild Database" option from the device’s safe mode.
• In some PC versions, Ray Tracing may be unintentionally enabled and cause unstable performance. Please check the Ray Tracing setting in the "System" > "Graphics Settings" > "Raytracing Quality" from the title screen or in-game menu.
• In the PC Version, the message "Inappropriate activity detected" may appear without cheating.

To fix this issue, please verify the integrity of the game's files before restarting the game.

• In the PC version, unstable framerate may be caused by third party applications that control mouse behavior. Deactivating these third party applications may improve performance.

App Ver. 1.12.3

Regulation Ver. 1.12.4

In PS4, PS5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S versions, Regulation files can be downloaded by logging in to the server.

If the Regulation Ver. listed in the lower right corner of the title screen is not 1.12.4, please select LOGIN and apply the latest regulation before enjoying the game.

Online play requires the player to apply this update.

 

[Bloodeyes]

update is coming

And its a complete nothing burger that just nerfs the player and fixes some minor bugs.

Patch Notes 1.12.3

PvP-exclusive balance adjustments​

• Decreased the damage and damage animation of the shearing vacuum effect of the “Swift Slash” Skill.

General balance adjustments​

• Increased the Intelligence scaling of the Carian Sorcery Sword and slightly decreased the base damage.
• Extended the throwing attacks range for the following weapons:
• Smithscript Dagger / Smithscript Cirque
• Changed the placement of the bosses in the re-fight against the Golden Hippopotamus and Commander Gaius bosses to be in the same position as in the first fight.

Bug Fixes​

• Fixed a bug that caused the Rolling Sparks Skill to deal more damage than expected.
• Fixed a bug that caused the Rolling Sparks and Wall of Sparks Skills to deal no damage while some special effects were applied to the player.
• Fixed a bug where some special effects of a right-handed weapon would also be applied to the following Weapon Skills when cast with the left hand:
  • Feeble Lord's Frenzied Flame
  • Discus Hurl
• Fixed a bug where successfully guarding while attacking using the Thrusting Shield weapon type would consume less stamina than intended.
• Fixed a bug that prevented players from cancelling the attack recovery of two-handed strong attacks by rolling for certain weapons of the Backhand Blades weapon type.
• Fixed a bug that caused the Lightning Perfume Bottle and Frenzyflame Perfume Bottle weapons to deal double damage under certain circumstances.
• Fixed a bug where the Arcane scaling of the Bloodfiend's Arm weapon was higher than intended when setting an affinity. The status buildup of the heavy attack was also reduced.
• Fixed a bug where the Faith scaling of the Gazing Finger weapon was not being applied correctly.
• Fixed a bug where the damage animation of some attacks of the Fire Knight's Greatsword against players was different than expected.
• Fixed a bug where the attack affinity of some attacks of the Fire Knight's Greatsword were different than expected.
• Fixed a bug that caused some affinities for the following weapons to be higher than intended:
  • Smithscript Dagger
  • Smithscript Cirque
  • Smithscript Axe
  • Smithscript Greathammer
  • Smithscript Spear
  • Golem Fist
  • Smithscript Shield
• Fixed a bug that caused enemies to heal when the Maximum HP reduction gradual HP reduction effect applied by Black Knife Tiche wore off.
• Fixed a bug that caused summoned NPCs to behave differently than expected under certain circumstances.
• Fixed a bug that where the unblockable bite attack of the Golden Hippopotamus boss would connect with players more easily than intended.
• Fixed a bug that caused text to display differently than expected.
• Several other performance improvements and bug fixes.

Possible unstable performance fixes​

• For the PS5 version of the game, unstable framerate may be improved by using the "Rebuild Database" option from the device’s safe mode.
• In some PC versions, Ray Tracing may be unintentionally enabled and cause unstable performance. Please check the Ray Tracing setting in the "System" > "Graphics Settings" > "Raytracing Quality" from the title screen or in-game menu.
• In the PC Version, the message "Inappropriate activity detected" may appear without cheating.

To fix this issue, please verify the integrity of the game's files before restarting the game.

• In the PC version, unstable framerate may be caused by third party applications that control mouse behavior. Deactivating these third party applications may improve performance.

App Ver. 1.12.3

Regulation Ver. 1.12.4

In PS4, PS5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S versions, Regulation files can be downloaded by logging in to the server.

If the Regulation Ver. listed in the lower right corner of the title screen is not 1.12.4, please select LOGIN and apply the latest regulation before enjoying the game.

Online play requires the player to apply this update.

Its a PvP balance patch that addresses some serious issues with the multiplayer actually. Swift Slash was a huge problem (think a literal win button if pressed repeatedly) and people were doing 20k damage with rolling sparks. The smitscript weapons had bugged AR when magic infused and Fire Knight's Greatsword had an R1-R1 true combo that made it full to zero people on an optimized build. Its nothing you'll notice but as an invader/arena duelist I've been going through hell with these issues so I hope to God the patch fixed them properly.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The difference between 20 vigor (which is what you'll actually have at level 1 for most of the game) and 60 is generally dying in 2 attacks instead of 3, and is quite often literally nothing because everything is massive overkill.

The only class that starts at level one is the Wretch, which has 10 vigor. The highest vigor starting class begins at level 9 and only has 15. The difference between 10 vigor and 60 is massive. With a level 180 character (a reasonable level to reach with a character entering at the previous PVP 'meta' level and doing most content) that had 80 vigor and wearing medium armor, I could facetank 5-6 hits from the final boss without healing. A 10 vigor character would be oneshot. That's more than barely anything.

the kinds of advantages you build up in Nioh, Monster Hunter, and other action rpgs, which include things like life stealing, invincibility shields, and immunity to status effects and types of attacks.

Life stealing like Malenia's great rune? Invincibility shields like the opaline bubbletear? These are all things you can obtain in ER, so I'm not sure what your point is.

The stats in ER exist mostly to make retards that can't follow basic fucking logic get excited about numbers going up.

They exist for the same reason they exist in all RPGs, to show your character's growth in experience beyond just your skill as a player improving.

A:Anyone not absolutely fucking retarded would be using godrick's greatrune and a soreseal, bringing you to 20 from the baseline of 10. Because

B: All the other great runes are utter dogshit, especially Malenias, which is like vampirism in the same way that sewage is like soup, and the soreseal is way better than anything else at level 1.

C: The opaline tear is obviously the reason you can take two hits at baseline health to begin with. If you're getting hit more than that in the fight you're getting fucked over too badly to heal anyways and your health is irrelevant. Again, this is nowhere close to something like the capes you get in Monster Hunter, which let you take multiple attacks without suffering damage, and can be used more than once per fight. The benefits you gain in ER by exploring and grinding over a speedrunner with a fucking club and like 4 items are pretty much negligible, because it's a shitty action game with a thin veneer of exploration and RPG mechanics that don't actually matter. It's not remotely comparable to the other games I mentioned, where the difference between two characters is massive.

If the stats in ER actually mattered, you wouldn't have herds of retards extolling how incredibly useful 5% more health is in a game where you die in 3 hits.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Such fucking bullshit from these retards claiming vigor is what makes the difference. Nobody is tanking 6 hits of this kind of damage:

 

[Odoryuk]

Such fucking bullshit from these retards claiming vigor is what makes the difference

You doing a bit here?

 

[abija]

The benefits you gain in ER by exploring and grinding over a speedrunner with a fucking club and like 4 items are pretty much negligible, because it's a shitty action game with a thin veneer of exploration and RPG mechanics that don't actually matter.

You forgot your meds or are you genuinely THAT dumb/retarded?

It's not remotely comparable to the other games I mentioned, where the difference between two characters is massive.

That's how we measure games now, the % in character power gained. Diablo 3 best game ever (with D4 struggling to take the crown). Roll them billions % devs or your games aren't worth shit.


Seriously now, did you even play the game? You do not seem to have experienced the difference between a leveled char and what sl1/speedrunners use.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I've played all the souls games and ER. Levels do fuck all. Health is the only stat that scales remotely well and only for the first 30 levels. Everything else is a total fucking joke. Grind 50 fucking levels so you can swing a sword one more time before losing all your stamina, which refills at the exact same speed so who gives a fuck. 50 levels in dex so your spells are 5% faster. 50 levels in strength so you can do 15% more damage than the guy with 16 strength. I've done the low level runs and they're not really more difficult because you've barely lost anything compared to a levelled character and you've learned to avoid all the gimmicky gotcha moments that kill you regardless of your level. It's far, far easier to win a fight without getting hit while hitting for 500 damage with some cheesy red tearstone setup than it is to win the same fight with 200 damage but you can survive getting hit once between heals.

It's not about total power gained over the course of the game, but about the difference between any two levelled characters. The difference between being in shitty light armour and ultra heavy armour that needs another 80 fucking levels to wear with the same roll speed is like, 10% mitigation and some poise that stopped being meaningful in DS2 when they disabled it on walking and gave everything a grab ever after. Armour is a fucking joke.

Anyone remember Demon's Souls? Remember how it had a fucking ring that boosted your health by like 50%? That shit mattered. Now you get a talisman that boosts it by 4% and it's still a good one compared to half of them that do essentially nothing.

Like, this shit cannot be any simpler. Look at the damage taken in a fight. If you lose 1200 hp at once, then bumping your health from 1450 to 1900 (20 levels from 40 to 60 that supposedly matter so much) is completely fucking meaningless. Stop pretending you can survive 6 times longer with 30% more health against enemies that chunk you for 80% of it at a time.

 

[abija]

You might have done the low level runs but you clearly have no clue about the power of a high level char. Also your math is very iffy.
My lvl 30 med load char dies from 1000 physical dmg. My lvl 232 char with light load needs 6800 physical dmg to die and at med load 9000. Those aren't meaningless differences.

DS had less sources of power so they were stronger. They added more systems and lowered the individual impact but the overall diference after leveling and gathering loot is still "massive".

"Levels do fuck all" is the DUMBEST shit I've heard anyone say about the souls games. By far.

 

[Bloodeyes]

You might have done the low level runs but you clearly have no clue about the power of a high level char. Also your math is very iffy.
My lvl 30 med load char dies from 1000 physical dmg. My lvl 232 char with light load needs 6800 physical dmg to die and at med load 9000. Those aren't meaningless differences.

DS had less sources of power so they were stronger. They added more systems and lowered the individual impact but the overall diference after leveling and gathering loot is still "massive".

"Levels do fuck all" is the DUMBEST shit I've heard anyone say about the souls games. By far.

Its not even something anyone who has done PvP would consider debating. When you hit a "downscaled" over-levelled phantom at RL 60 and do absolutely fuck all damage you don't question the effect of level based negations. You'd never even think to question it. Invaders can tell what level a phantom is by how many runes you get for killing them, but you can tell long before that by how little damage they take. That's why low level reds carry poison mist blood affinity antspur rapiers and rot pots, or drawstring blood grease raptor talons or star fists. There's not much else you can do to hurt these guys.

 

[Damned Registrations]

My lvl 232 char with light load needs 6800 physical dmg to die and at med load 9000

There is no way that's true. There simply isn't that much mitigation in the game, not in a way that stacks like that unless you're including retarded shit like buffs that last less than 10 seconds or prevent you from rolling.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think a good idea might be to use that talisman that boosts defences at max health. If you cast an heal over time spell before the fight, you should be able to hit max health more than a few times during a fight. As long as you are careful not to get hit again after losing the buff first you should be able to tank a few hits, especially if you combine it with the bobble tear or the bobble perfume buff (or both).

 

[Turn_BASED]

My lvl 232 char with light load needs 6800 physical dmg to die and at med load 9000

There is no way that's true. There simply isn't that much mitigation in the game, not in a way that stacks like that unless you're including retarded shit like buffs that last less than 10 seconds or prevent you from rolling.

Here’s a video on how powerful stacking vigor and defense can be:



It can get pretty crazy, even without the 5-10 second buff shenanigans before the very end.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I played both Nioh 1/2 and regardless of build, in both games, every random bandit and skeleton killed me in 2-3 hits (one combo), from levels 1-100.

In any case, I think these people are buttmad because they used to derive epeen from their challenge builds and holding that over the other players. But those builds don't work in Elden Ring and it's unbearable.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Elden Ring has the most fun SL1 experience since Dark Souls 1, mainly because of the vast amount of equipment combinations you can use to make up for the low stats (where as Dark Souls 1 was cool because of that whole pyro concept).

 

[abija]

There is no way that's true. There simply isn't that much mitigation in the game, not in a way that stacks like that unless you're including retarded shit like buffs that last less than 10 seconds or prevent you from rolling.

You probably forgot what levels do in souls games... the high lvl char naked has 50% dmg reduction. You think I was exaggerating and I didn't even have hp talismans equipped when I checked... (https://imgur.com/Mo5YS9b - 10400 ehp vs physical, 11600 with golden vow which I use usually)

 

[HumanTotemPole]

My lvl 232 char with light load needs 6800 physical dmg to die and at med load 9000

There is no way that's true. There simply isn't that much mitigation in the game, not in a way that stacks like that unless you're including retarded shit like buffs that last less than 10 seconds or prevent you from rolling.

There is if you start pumping your Scatman Blessing:

Spoiler

Whether the choice to have a simple collectathon upgrade outperform the top tier damage boost AND mitigation talismans from the base game by the time you leave SotE's starting area is a good design choice is up for debate.

 

[Crayll]

A:Anyone not absolutely fucking retarded would be using godrick's greatrune and a soreseal, bringing you to 20 from the baseline of 10. Because

B: All the other great runes are utter dogshit, especially Malenias, which is like vampirism in the same way that sewage is like soup, and the soreseal is way better than anything else at level 1.

C: The opaline tear is obviously the reason you can take two hits at baseline health to begin with. If you're getting hit more than that in the fight you're getting fucked over too badly to heal anyways and your health is irrelevant. Again, this is nowhere close to something like the capes you get in Monster Hunter, which let you take multiple attacks without suffering damage, and can be used more than once per fight. The benefits you gain in ER by exploring and grinding over a speedrunner with a fucking club and like 4 items are pretty much negligible, because it's a shitty action game with a thin veneer of exploration and RPG mechanics that don't actually matter. It's not remotely comparable to the other games I mentioned, where the difference between two characters is massive.

If the stats in ER actually mattered, you wouldn't have herds of retards extolling how incredibly useful 5% more health is in a game where you die in 3 hits.

Is this a conversation about power at level 1 or at a reasonable level for the DLC? Because you would absolutely should not be using Godrick's greatrune or a soreseal in the DLC. +5/10 vigor at a point where you should already be leveled to the vigor softcap is going to be massively worse than Radahn's/Morgotts's runes which give 15%/25% more health. The soreseal would also be gimping your physical defense on top of that.

As said above, Radahn's and Morgott's runes are just better than Godrick's outside of the early game, unless you're just trying to meet a stat requirement. Rykard's is useful in dungeons, but not against bosses. Mohg's is trash though.
Malenia's rune was just buffed and now performs pretty well with the right build. This is also using Blood Tax and some supporting items, but you can see it's a significant amount of lifesteal

Video

I also would not actually recommend using the opaline bubbletear in boss fights, I just listed it because you mentioned invincibility shields. The opaline hardtear is a much better option and is part of how people get such high negation numbers.

It's clear now that you don't understand how levels work, and don't know what options the player has to overcome challenges, so it's not surprising you struggled.

 

[Raghar]

My lvl 232 char with light load needs 6800 physical dmg to die and at med load 9000

There is no way that's true. There simply isn't that much mitigation in the game, not in a way that stacks like that unless you're including retarded shit like buffs that last less than 10 seconds or prevent you from rolling.

There is if you start pumping your Scatman Blessing:

Spoiler

Whether the choice to have a simple collectathon upgrade outperform the top tier damage boost AND mitigation talismans from the base game by the time you leave SotE's starting area is a good design choice is up for debate.

Well they rewards exploration. These OP weapons they they put as loot would probably require redesign of rest of the game.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The 'game is too hard' thing is a fucking strawman though. What we're saying is that the game is too fucking spastic and random to enjoyably interact with. This would be true even if I had 10 million hp.

Here’s a video on how powerful stacking vigor and defense can be:

I stand corrected, crab meat is better than I gave it credit for. Never had access to it myself, killed that guy when we met, I thought it was like 10% for 30 seconds or so. Ditto for the talisman I never used. Still doesn't really matter, since most bosses do elemental/status damage, will juggle your ass if you try to reapply those buffs, and you won't have a bunch of them except for NG+ or like, 3 bosses left. But yeah, if you want to go back to Liurnia and tank a watchdog hammer in some random dungeon, you'll have 9000 ehp.

Counterpoint though: Since the bulk of this mitigation is from a couple temporary buffs and a talisman, I can just as easily say that a level 30 character has like, 5000 hp. The levels aren't really doing jack shit here compared to the massive investment required.

There is if you start pumping your Scatman Blessing:

Yeah I was ignoring that shit. Presumably the DLC enemies all scale their damage anyways so it's a wash.


Equivalentlly focused build in MHW:



Nioh 2 is even more ridiculous, but you wouldn't be able to get the gist from a video. Suffice to say, you can outright cheat death in multiple ways the way the opaline bubble tear does, and easily reapply them during a fight and have several of them running passively at all times while being able to leech your entire healthbar in 3 seconds while attacking. A defensive build in Nioh does more than make you 75% resistant to a single element.