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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
Fuck this guy. What where they thinking? It's basically an RNG fight.
He's supposed to be fought on Torrent but From don't communicate that. You double jump over his charge and clear both hitboxes.
@Hell Swarm Well I liked this boss and Midra.
He's one of my favourites. He's really interesting and I did RL1 just to fight him again without cheese (then cheesed him..)
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,322
He's supposed to be fought on Torrent but From don't communicate that. You double jump over his charge and clear both hitboxes.
I actually tried that a few times, and while it's possible to double jump his charge, sometimes you just get hit regardless and I find it's harder to dodge some of his other attacks on horseback as opposed to on foot.
 

Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,792
Commander Gaius is such a terrible boss.

His charge is very very hard to dodge and deals 50% of my health in damage. But it also has a lingering hitbox meaning if I dodge wrong I can get hit twice in 1 passthrough, killing me instantly.

He can also randomly decide to use it from point blank range and it has a very fast windup leaving you no time to dodge properly.

Just died from full health to that when he was at 15% because he decided to charge right after another attack while I was standing in melee.

Fuck this guy. What where they thinking? It's basically an RNG fight.
Worst part is that he is an optional boss guarding precisely nothing so beating him gives you basically nothing. I personally cheesed him with scarlet rot and never looked back.
 

Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,792
I concur Midra is one of the better bosses in the DLC. He is very well placed in the world, his level foreshadows him properly so you do not just blindly walk into him and unlike most other bosses his design goes half a step beyond "really fast dude who deals 2k damage on each swing".

That said I wonder how much of it is accidental because his gimmick of applying frenzy may be unintentionally gimped due to frenzy being balanced for PVP. Also he is pretty far into the game so by the time most face him they will have around 15+ blessings so that might mitigate a lot of what would otherwise by pure bullshit.
 

Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,792
He guards 4 or 5 scat tree blessings near the not lord vessel.
Which is basically nothing. Bosses like this should be used for optional areas or path to secret ending or you something of significance. A quasi-level up that could have been placed literary anywhere else does not really meet that definition in my book.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,610
IDK what's this supposed to prove.

The point is that there isn't anything particularly terrible or shocking about the DLC, not when compared to the base game. I was expected something completely outlandish but so far it's just more of the same. Learn the boss until you come up on top.

He didn't do any of that though. He stacked a bunch of buffs and killed it with a meta weapon to the point where it never even entered 2 of it's phases.

The point of all my plays is precisely that i'm using all the resources a normal person would use. My aim is to demonstrate what can be done from the perspective of someone just playing the game normally (short of using summons etc). Even when i do supposed "try hard" stuff like fighting a boss at 1 HP or whatever i'm still trying to take advantage of something, for instance, that shield and talisman that gives you bonus damage if you are on low health:



In the case of the lion, i also had to test how far you could outpace him without relying on the Scadutree Blessings mechanic, so i intentionally stacked as much damage as i could pack (with a price of course, since i had so many sources of damage negation penalties i might as well have played with 1 HP) to see how that would take me. I also could have used stuff like the Bloodboil Aromatic and especially the Uplifting Aromatic for his elemental phase but when i saw how fast he was coming down i reasoned there was no need. A normal persorn would of course rely on those resources as well.

So first boss down and it felt no different from anything from the base game. Onward to the next i guess.
 

Anonona

Savant
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
690
The point is that there isn't anything particularly terrible or shocking about the DLC, not when compared to the base game. I was expected something completely outlandish but so far it's just more of the same. Learn the boss until you come up on top.

Ignoring the fact that most complains are about bosses not being fun, and the fact that is mostly about the some of the latter ones (Gaus and the final boss in particular), how does just bursting the boss so badly that it dies before it can even show all of its phases or use its "super" combo proves anything about the boss design itself?. You can burst every boss in the DLC just like the base game, is probably how many players are beating the bosses instead of learning the fights themselves. It doesn't remove the flaws and the questionable design choices.

Also, one of the complains was that the camera wasn't very good and you can see in the video how when it uses its breath attack the camera decides to look up it ass instead of getting far away to let the player see. Sure, we adapted to that and used other cues in the animation to dodge it, doesn't suddenly removes the issue.

A normal persorn would of course rely on those resources as well
I don't know, I somehow doubt most players will buff so much before every boss unless they had been stuck a while and decided to look up a wiki to trivialize the fight. They would probably just pick something that they find fun to use and stick with it instead of going straight for meta weapons and all kind of buffs.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
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Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,087
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The point is that there isn't anything particularly terrible or shocking about the DLC, not when compared to the base game. I was expected something completely outlandish but so far it's just more of the same. Learn the boss until you come up on top.
Wasn't really a question but even so IDK why I bothered. Same old same old.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,610
The point is that there isn't anything particularly terrible or shocking about the DLC, not when compared to the base game. I was expected something completely outlandish but so far it's just more of the same. Learn the boss until you come up on top.

Ignoring the fact that most complains are about bosses not being fun, and the fact that is mostly about the some of the latter ones (Gaus and the final boss in particular), how does just bursting the boss so badly that it dies before it can even show all of its phases or use its "super" combo proves anything about the boss design itself?.

Well, how do you know the boss isn't INTENDED to be burst like that? It's not the first time FromSoft designed something you were specifically intended to take down as fast as possible. Artorias was like that. Indeed the most common tactic was to hit him hard enough to knock him out of his charge phase. Sometimes it's a puzzle you have to crack. In the base game there were bosses with "intentional" weaknesses. I just checked the wiki and sure enough this boss is weak to bleed and especially rot. This to me this implies the "correct" way to do the boss is to stick a DOT on him so you can damage him during the elemental phases where you are expected to do a lot of hit and running.

BTW i just read in the comments of the wiki there's another one lmao. I'll be sure go to do it the try hard way when i get to that one. In either case, for me every time a boss seems "unreasonable" it is usually because there's a trick in there somewhere. Also, the game gives you many, MANY tools and one of my main contentions when people used to screech about the base game is that in a lot of cases bosses are designed in a way to take into account of all the tools the player as at his disposal. That includes "bursting" as well, since FromSoft isn't so stupid as not to know the common tactics used by the average player (Margit/Morgott was also weak to "bursting" tactics, i'm going to assume by design).

In the main, i think the error is to assume the "legit" way is to gimp yourself as much as you can, everything else being "cheese". In my mind, i think what's going on with FromSoft is that they are designing their bosses with the "cheese" in mind instead. Or at the very least they are designing taking into account everything the player can do. If they didn't, given the amount of tools the player has, the game would be a cake walk.

Also, one of the complains was that the camera wasn't very good and you can see in the video how when it uses its breath attack the camera decides to look up it ass instead of getting far away to let the player see.

It's not the camera, it's because he moves around while he is spinning. Sometimes he moves away from you and you get a clear view of what is going on. In my case he decided to just move towards me which meant i had to rely on memory on when to roll.

Camera issues are also relative. If he backs you into a wall, it's hard to understand what is happening but it wasn't much better in Sekiro where the camera could never get that close yet if you were backed into a wall it became very hard to deal with the boss attacks, I.E., the Demon of Hatred. Only solution to that would be to make arenas with infinite running around with no boundaries but that would destroy all sense of immersion.

I don't know, I somehow doubt most players will buff so much before every boss unless they had been stuck a while and decided to look up a wiki to trivialize the fight. They would probably just pick something that they find fun to use and stick with it instead of going straight for meta weapons and all kind of buffs.

I don't know, you have a strange view of how people like to play this game. Just while i was doing this boss i've seen many, many people casting Flame, Grant Me Strength while walking in, more than a few while wielding Blasphemous Blade. I also have many hundreds of hours in the game playing co-op and EVERYBODY buffs before walking in a fight. I don't even understand who wouldn't.

This is unreasonable buffing:



I don't understand how casting a mere Golden Vow before a fight is supposed to be beyond the pale of any normal player.

Also, as i pointed out some of the buffs i used had a price attached to them. Sure i stacked all the damage i could to "burst" the boss but i had make absolutely sure i could do it without taking damage. I had 15% extra damage taken from Radagon's Soreseal , 30% from Howl of Shabriri and another 10% from the Scorpion Charm. I was a veritable glass cannon and that means the trade off to be able to "burst" him was not taking even a single hit.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
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Messages
2,144
he point of all my plays is precisely that i'm using all the resources a normal person would use. My aim is to demonstrate what can be done from the perspective of someone just playing the game normally (short of using summons etc).
A normal person doesn't stack buffs like this. Only an autist with a wiki does.
I don't know, I somehow doubt most players will buff so much before every boss unless they had been stuck a while and decided to look up a wiki to trivialize the fight. They would probably just pick something that they find fun to use and stick with it instead of going straight for meta weapons and all kind of buffs.
Completely correct. People will use a buff if it's built into their kit or they're doing a faith build but in general buffs just aren't used and no one is stacking them.

Well, how do you know the boss isn't INTENDED to be burst like that? It's not the first time FromSoft designed something you were specifically intended to take down as fast as possible. Artorias was like that.
Please for the love of fuck go back to your own thread and stay out of this one. I have never read such stupidity in all my years on an internet forum and I've read some amazingly stupid stuff. From do not spend hundreds of hours designing multiple boss phases for you to burst them down and never see them. Do you really think From were like "Okay so Lion goes lightning, then the player kills them and we'll animate the ice and wind effects they'll never see"? You're a fucking idiot if this is your argument for why stacking 10 buffs and bursting the boss down was intended gameplay. From let you decide how difficult you want the game to be and YOU always pick baby mode using wikis. Then you talk shit about how easy the games are when you're doing the wiki run every single time. And it's obvious because no natural play through stacks buffs like this. They require very specific builds and stat investments no normal player makes. They pump 1 damage stat, a secondary stat if they need it for a weapon and then the support HP/equip load/stamina stats.
I don't even understand who wouldn't.
Because you're autistic and refuse to listen to people who tell you you're wrong. You're too busy sucking your own dick to even learn the most basic of social interactions and understand you're completely wrong and an abnormal subhuman with a brain defect.
 

Anonona

Savant
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
690
Well, how do you know the boss isn't INTENDED to be burst like that?
Then he would have a DPS check like a fucking MMO that kills you if you take too long. An enemy having weaknesses doesn't mean that the boss was designed to be bursted to death. Sometimes a game allowing you to trivialize fights may be by accident or choice, as a way to modulate the difficulty, but rarely bosses are designed around this idea. In fact, I find the idea that an enemy moveset is meant not to be seen ludicrous.

BTW i just read in the comments of the wiki there's another one lmao. I'll be sure go to do it the try hard way when i get to that one
Why? It won't prove anything because doing it harder or easier doesn't change the fight design. Also I would recommend to just enjoy the DLC. I'm pretty sure you will find it great and is better to just play whoever you enjoy.

It's not the camera, it's because he moves around while he is spinning. Sometimes he moves away from you and you get a clear view of what is going on. In my case he decided to just move towards him which meant i had to rely on memory on when to roll.

Camera issues are also relative. If he backs you into a walk, it's hard to understand what is happening but it wasn't much better in Sekiro where the camera could never get that close yet if you were backed into a wall it became very hard to deal with the boss attacks, I.E., the Demon of Hatred. Only solution to that would be to make arenas with infinite running around with no boundaries but that would destroy all sense of immersion.
No offense, but anything of what you had said proves that it isn't the camera, at all. Just because other games also had bad cameras or sometimes, if you are lucky, it doesn't happen doesn't mean is fine. Also, yeah, fights being designed with rote memorization is a big criticism of ER, so you are just further proving critics points. And no, many games had faster, more chaotic combat systems yet managed to make the camera work much better. Bayonetta, God of War, DMC 5, etc. Not perfect, but not so consistently bad like ER can get with some fights. Things like making walls dissapear to let you see, zooming out, changing cameras angles, there are a lot of tools that ER doesn't use that often.

Without mentioning that fights can be designed in a way to avoid this issues if you know the camera system have such limitations. You can see examples of this in ER itself, with some bosses that move very fast but the camera follows perfectly, while in others it shit itself, specially big enemies.

You just need to see the video that was posted calling Lock-on a trap, encouraging to play without it to avoid issues with the camera and the advice of fellow codexers well versed in the game.

I don't know, you have a strange view of how people like to play this game. Just while i was doing this boss i've seen many, many people casting Flame, Grant Me Strength while walking in, more than a few while wielding Blasphemous Blade. I also have many hundreds of hours in the game playing co-op and EVERYTHING buffs before walking in a fight. I don't even understand who wouldn't.
I would actually argue the opposite. Most people I have seen or read online seem to just use at most a few buffs that are related to their build and at most an easy to access consumable. Is when they get fed up with a boss or just doesn't like a fight when they went "fuck it" and look up a build to kill them fast.

Then again, it my be just confirmation bias on my part.

Also, as i pointed out some of the buffs i used had a price attached to them. Sure i stacked all the damage i could to "burst" the boss but i had make absolutely sure i could do it without taking damage. I had 15% extra damage taken from Radagon's Soreseal , 30% from Howl of Shabriri and another 10% from the Scorpion Charm. I was a veritable glass cannon and that means the trade off to be able to "burst" him was not taking even a single hit.

And you really think that the average player will choose to play like that, without being able to take a hit? I mean, while in truth it is easier than doing little damage but being able to take 2-3 hits, I have a hard time believing most players will choose a risky play style. If anything, most will seek stronger defensive buffs instead of offensives.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,610
he point of all my plays is precisely that i'm using all the resources a normal person would use. My aim is to demonstrate what can be done from the perspective of someone just playing the game normally (short of using summons etc).
A normal person doesn't stack buffs like this. Only an autist with a wiki does.

Only an illiterate wouldn't stack buffs. Anybody who picks up Golden Vow and reads it increases defences and attack power would instantly use it. Why wouldn't they?

Do you also think people just pick stats at random while leveling up? What is this honestly you guys are just grasping at straws so hard right now it's not even funny.

From do not spend hundreds of hours designing multiple boss phases for you to burst them down and never see them.

Wouldn't they? I got the distinct feeling the boss was meant to be a race. Out damage him before he gets too out of hand. All the "design" of the boss went into his moveset anyway, the elemental attacks were easy to add to me it just felt like FromSoft was begging you to kill him before he got to use them all. Why would you tarry anyway. Any normal player would try to get as much damage as possible early on precisely to shorten the elemental phases as much as possible.

Again, looking at the perspective of a "normal" player here. Try hards of course would prefer to gimp themselves to "show off" during the elemental phases but i was intentionaly trying not to think in those terms.

Because you're autistic and refuse to listen to people who tell you you're wrong. You're too busy sucking your own dick to even learn the most basic of social interactions and understand you're completely wrong and an abnormal subhuman with a brain defect.

I think it is you who needs to take a look at what you are saying. Normal people don't use buffs now? Since when? Don't they use gear? Consumables? Healing? What is it about buffs that makes them different exactly?
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,610
I would actually argue the opposite. Most people I have seen or read online seem to just use at most a few buffs that are related to their build and at most an easy to access consumable.

Ok well, i used two buffs, Golden Vow and Howl of Shabriri, the last one coming at a 30% damage penalty. Most people would have probably opted for Flame, Grant Me Strengh instead. Also, one of the reasons i was able to pack so much damage was Lion's Claw, which is not easy to time. That said, i also have zero Scadutree upgrades, which puts me behind what most people could actually do if they put their mind to it.

BTW, i just checked how Ongbal did it and he pretty much resorted to the same tactic:

 

Anonona

Savant
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
690
Wouldn't they? I got the distinct feeling the boss was meant to be a race. Out damage him before he gets too out of hand. All the "design" of the boss went into his moveset anyway, the elemental attacks were easy to add to me it just felt like FromSoft was begging you to kill him before he got to use them all. Why would you tarry anyway. Any normal player would try to get as much damage as possible early on precisely to shorten the elemental phases as much as possible.

Again, looking at the perspective of a "normal" player here. Try hards of course would prefer to gimp themselves to "show off" during the elemental phases but i was intentionaly trying not to think in those terms.

No, I don't even know how you came to such a conclusion, is baffling. I have played games that had actual "DPS checks" mechanics designed to see if the players can optimize their damage high enough. This isn't one of them because otherwise all fights in the game could pretty much be considered that. You can skip whole phases of almost all bosses, up to the final boss of the DLC, but not in my wildest dream would I think "oh, I was meant to skip the whole phase". You can do it, is the most optimal thing to do, but I'm sure that the enemy move set was not designed with this idea in mind.

It isn't even that crazy of a fight, just 3 rotating phases that give special effects to its attacks and each with a single new move, plus a combo where it changes phases in quick succession. Is a fun fight, and one of the easier ones once you get used to its weird tells and cameras issues.

You are also assuming most player know how to build and exploit the game system to its fullest without a wiki, create decent builds, or where to even find a lot of those buffs. Without mentioning that perhaps they prefer not to use some of the most powerful stuff like bleed because they wanted to build something different.

Really, this game is the most popular souls game, is mainstream. People that haven't touched a decent ARPG in their lives have this as their first experience. I think you are overestimating the average skill of the playerbase in general.

That said, i also have zero Scadutree upgrades, which puts me behind what most people could actually do if they put their mind to it.
Not by much, I was like Scadutree level 2-3 I think when I fought it and you did like triple the damage I did. It was pre patch, mind you, so maybe now it is different, but I'm pretty sure that boss is meant to be fought pretty much at low or zero level Scadutree blessing.
 

abija

Prophet
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
3,367
You are also assuming most player know how to build and exploit the game system to its fullest without a wiki, create decent builds, or where to even find a lot of those buffs. Without mentioning that perhaps they prefer not to use some of the most powerful stuff like bleed because they wanted to build something different.
You forget those players would use summons and more often than not have high dps/low surv builds. Also the game didn't set traps with the straightforward builds. You pick up a nice big weapon or some big juicy spells, you're doing damage.

All the difficulty complains come from "ethical tryhards".
 

MasPingon

Arcane
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Castle Rock
Didn't expect Erdtree.

asd.png
 

Anonona

Savant
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Oct 24, 2019
Messages
690
You forget those players would use summons and more often than not have high dps/low surv builds. Also the game didn't set traps with the straightforward builds. You pick up a nice big weapon or some big juicy spells, you're doing damage.

All the difficulty complains come from "ethical tryhards".
I didn't say anything about the game setting traps, and also I doubt that is the case with those that use summons. If they are trying to take every advantage I would assume they would go high survability and damage if anything. Also, bold of you to assume the tryhards are the only one complaining. This is a strawman. You will find that you have different kind of players complaining about bosses, regardless of if they tryhard or not, and many complaints aren't about difficulty, but just how fun (or unfun) learning some of the fights are. Like is not weird to see comments from more casual players going "Phase 1 of final boss was fine, but phase 2 with all the visual effects was annoying and couldn't bother to learn it. Just equiped Greatshield and poked him to death" through the web. Or complaints about weird hitboxes and such like with Gaius.

Not saying there are those that complain unjustifiably about difficulty of the DLC, but there is also legit criticism about From's designs and decisions.
 

abija

Prophet
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May 21, 2011
Messages
3,367
I didn't say anything about the game setting traps, and also I doubt that is the case with those that use summons. If they are trying to take every advantage I would assume the opposite, they will go high survability and damage if anything.

You said people have shitty builds which usually is the reasult of traps.

It's not about taking every advantage. The summons system is pushed pretty hard by the designers. Without preconceptions about souls combat you just use it, you don't think "I'm cheesing the game". Playing with summons usually requires less survivability and will gravitate the builds towards more dps.
 

Anonona

Savant
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Messages
690
You said people have shitty builds which usually is the reasult of traps.
Not really. I would argue than more often than not is people just not having enough knowledge about things like softcaps, the % of damage increase, how scaling works, what buffs overwrite each other, having loss access to certain Talisman or items due to quest progression or straight up not knowing where to find them, what are the most optimal stats to level first, the effects of poise and weight, how damage reduction works, etc. A lot of the time people with shitty builds are just people that are clueless about how the game actually works, maybe due to being new to the game or RPGs or not bothering to understand the system well. There is a good reason why many veterans have to remind players to level Vigor at the beginning instead of their main stat, because without prior experience a lot of people make the mistake of investing to much on their main stat while weapons still have shit scaling and have a harder early game experience.

It's not about taking every advantage. The summons system is pushed pretty hard by the designers. Without preconceptions about souls combat you just use it, you don't think "I'm cheesing the game". Playing with summons usually requires less survivability and will gravitate the builds towards more dps.
But I'm not arguing that it is cheesing the game. In fact I'm of the opposite opinion, it is a fundamental part of the game. People can play the game how they damn well please. Also players will normally try to take every advantage they can. Not saying you are wrong about players going for more offensive builds if they use summons, but I doubt most casual players for example would go for a very optimized high risk high reward build the first time around, instead opting to boost both defense and offense at the same time. That is why most would choose Flame give me Strenght instead of Howl of Sahibri when first going through the game or learning a boss, or if they don't have much confidence in surviving the fight with a defense debuff.

But I fail to see how this is really relevant to the disscussion. I never said anything about it being bad or wrong to play at the best of your skills or use the systems given by the game to win as wrong. Is an aRPG after all, being good at the RPG part is important. But at the same time it doesn't just negates any issue the game may have. Just because the player can win without learning the boss doesn't automatically mean that boss is well designed nor fun.
 
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Hell Swarm

Learned
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There is zero self awareness here. The "try hards" aren't the people using the tools they find while exploring. The try hards are the wikifags popping multiple buffs and killing bosses in a handful of hits.

But at the same time it doesn't just negates any issue the game may have. Just because the player can win without learning the boss doesn't automatically mean that boss is well designed nor fun.
Lyric will absolutely defend anything From do because he abuses wikis to kill bosses in under a minute. Then argues there's no design flaws in souls games because the camera isn't a problem if you're killing a boss in a single combo. He has an ego tied to From games for some reason and will argue for the rest of his life they're not broken because "if it was From would have fixed it". Only a thread ban or death will stop him shitting up the discussion the same way he has for the last 100 pages.


Found this review and I thought it was pretty cool. Don't agree on everything but I think he hits the core problems with Elden ring and the DLC.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Codex game criticisms have really gone to the toilet these days.

You use more than one buff in a game that has many buffs! Must be consulting a wiki!

You use a weapon that does a lot of damage in a post end game area! That's practically cheating!

It's like nuDexers just slam their faces into their desks until inspiration hits on what new depths of retardation to introduce to these sacred shores.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
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Codex game criticisms have really gone to the toilet these days.

You use more than one buff in a game that has many buffs! Must be consulting a wiki!

You use a weapon that does a lot of damage in a post end game area! That's practically cheating!

It's like nuDexers just slam their faces into their desks until inspiration hits on what new depths of retardation to introduce to these sacred shores.
Have you considered maybe your not playing the game right when you completely skip boss phases?
 

Anonona

Savant
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Oct 24, 2019
Messages
690
Codex game criticisms have really gone to the toilet these days.

You use more than one buff in a game that has many buffs! Must be consulting a wiki!

You use a weapon that does a lot of damage in a post end game area! That's practically cheating!

It's like nuDexers just slam their faces into their desks until inspiration hits on what new depths of retardation to introduce to these sacred shores.
Why are you misrepresenting the discussion? The point was that being able to burst the boss doesn't make it good nor erase its flaws, while the point about the build used was a very secondary one. The build go beyond just buffs, as is a combination of different talismans and weapons that showns knowledge of the game and that is very probable that your casual player won't even use most of the time, because is a specific, high risk high reward build. Somehow for some reason the point has been read as complaining about him using that build and buffs when in reality that was never the point. Is that him using such build and killing the boss before it can use it movesets wouldn't excuse if it was bad, which, by the way, we aren't saying the Lion is bad, on the contrary, most people actually like it despite it flaws.
 

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