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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

FugueLah

Scholar
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
168
The other slightly weird thing with ER armour is that when you get to decent heavy armour, like Crucible Knight's Set or Radahn's Lion Armour the next 'upgrades' after them do very little for damage mitigation (normally around 1-2% multiplicative DR), they just stack extra poise (which seems to do very little in the expansion) for a huge load of extra weight (like 2 to 10 kilos for just the chest armour).
It's not that weird when you consider that increases in weight capacity scales well all the way up to 99 endurance unlike other stats. It's almost as if if you don't arbitrarily handicap yourself to level 125 - 150, the number of viable build and gear setups goes up significantly.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
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Btw, I don't like bleed and never looked at items with it or read about mechanics. By what happens to my char from bleed attacks I'd say each hit ads that number to a hidden bar and when it reaches a treshold based on enemy resistance it triggers a blood loss. Is it close?
But that isn't how bleed works though. Because as simple as Hit enemy until bleed, bar resets but has higher resistance is.. that doesn't ring true from actual gameplay. I have repeatedly seen double bleed procs from the same or very close attacks. If it was a simple Beat this number, it resets and beat a higher number then you wouldn't occasionally see a double bleed proc completely melt an opponent's health bar. So something is more complex than even the simplest version of bleed. Which means there's no way to understand a core mechanic to the dex stat gameplay.

Ever had an enemy stagger with 4 hits then another one staggers on 5? No break in between, guard counter + R1s? I had that happen to be a few times yesterday. Bar shouldn't have reset but my hits impacted the enemy differently. I've seen the data from illusionary wall, I've played enough of these games to know how it works and yet it doesn't work. So WTF do you mean these numbers are all linear? They aren't.

The other slightly weird thing with ER armour is that when you get to decent heavy armour, like Crucible Knight's Set or Radahn's Lion Armour the next 'upgrades' after them do very little for damage mitigation (normally around 1-2% multiplicative DR), they just stack extra poise (which seems to do very little in the expansion) for a huge load of extra weight (like 2 to 10 kilos for just the chest armour).
It's not that weird when you consider that increases in weight capacity scales well all the way up to 99 endurance unlike other stats. It's almost as if if you don't arbitrarily handicap yourself to level 125 - 150, the number of viable build and gear setups goes up significantly.
No one is arbitrarily capping themselves at 125 SL. It's roughly where the game ends and if your build variety doesn't cut in until you beat Elden beast your game is fucking stupid (and this is going for the Nioh stuff I've read before. Don't gate keep shit behind NG+ you fucking queers). You don't need max stats to make a viable build in ER. I've got multiple RL1 builds using Radaghon's soreseal and a the next +stat helmets. I can go traditional roll and poke to weapon art spam. As much as I dislike AoW stuff it's pretty good for giving a variety of special moves and you can even equip different weapons to get some coverage. The biggest issue with them is that From still lack a way to interact between moves. Either enemies stagger and you can hit them again or they don't and there's little you can do to change that. From combos would break the game with how much damage they would do to players so we don't have them.
 

Stoned Ape

Savant
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The belly of the whale
It's not that weird when you consider that increases in weight capacity scales well all the way up to 99 endurance unlike other stats. It's almost as if if you don't arbitrarily handicap yourself to level 125 - 150, the number of viable build and gear setups goes up significantly.
It's not the weight that's the issue, it's the fact that the DR doesn't really scale with investment past a certain point.

If the advantage to investing 99 vs 60 END is 1-2% DR and a chunk of poise (that doesn't seem to really do much) then I don't see how it is really worth it. If the 20-25kg chest pieces had a 3-4% advantage over the 15-16kg chest pieces I think it might be.
 

FugueLah

Scholar
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
168
No one is arbitrarily capping themselves at 125 SL
A lot of people are. You are delusional if you don't think so.
Either enemies stagger and you can hit them again or they don't and there's little you can do to change that.
Your stats define the range of weapons you can viably use. Key word here is range. Weapon/ash swapping depending on the circumstance is core to the game. Far too often, people stick to a single weapon at all times and wonder why certain encounters are frustrating.
 

FugueLah

Scholar
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
168
DR doesn't really scale with investment past a certain point.
That is by design. No different to how damage scaling drops off past 60 points. Regardless, your level is uncapped. Besides time, there is no opportunity cost to get 99 endurance vs 60.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
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Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
A lot of people are. You are delusional if you don't think so.
Look, if you want to pretend PvPers are people you can. But I'm not going to buy into retardation like that. You may as well say you're a tranny or you enjoy CRPGs if you want to tell lies. It would be more believable.
 

FugueLah

Scholar
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
168
A lot of people are. You are delusional if you don't think so.
Look, if you want to pretend PvPers are people you can. But I'm not going to buy into retardation like that. You may as well say you're a tranny or you enjoy CRPGs if you want to tell lies. It would be more believable.
Plenty of players cap their level because they feel they are cheating if they level too high, the same way they decide not to use ashes. Then they wonder why their cool MAD build that they want to use doesn't work all that well. Good thing Myazaki gave those guys Fire Knight Greatsword, so they can realize their pure faith melee dream.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
16,024
Far too often, people stick to a single weapon at all times and wonder why certain encounters are frustrating.
More likely, they spent their upgrade materials on the first 4 weapons that seemed kinda cool, found out 3 of them are shit for some reason, and are now stuck with 1 unless they go grind to upgrade a new weapon that seemingly has a 75% chance of being shit.
 

Stoned Ape

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Messages
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The belly of the whale
DR doesn't really scale with investment past a certain point.
That is by design. No different to how damage scaling drops off past 60 points. Regardless, your level is uncapped. Besides time, there is no opportunity cost to get 99 endurance vs 60.
But there is the opportunity cost of having 99 END and wearing (extremely heavy armour sets with medium rolling) vs (fairly heavy armour with light rolling) and/or equipping additional weapons to quickly swap during combat.

I really don't think the tiny additional damage mitigation really stacks well against any of the other things you can do with the extra encumbrance weight.
 

FugueLah

Scholar
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
168
DR doesn't really scale with investment past a certain point.
That is by design. No different to how damage scaling drops off past 60 points. Regardless, your level is uncapped. Besides time, there is no opportunity cost to get 99 endurance vs 60.
But there is the opportunity cost of having 99 END and wearing (extremely heavy armour sets with medium rolling) vs (fairly heavy armour with light rolling) and/or equipping additional weapons to quickly swap during combat.

I really don't think the tiny additional damage mitigation really stacks well against any of the other things you can do with the extra encumbrance weight.
The difference in DR from a medium armor 51 poise setup and maxed setup is around 5% at 20 scadu frags. That's 15%+ DR or 15% increased ehp, and not at all insignificant.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
A lot of people are. You are delusional if you don't think so.
Look, if you want to pretend PvPers are people you can. But I'm not going to buy into retardation like that. You may as well say you're a tranny or you enjoy CRPGs if you want to tell lies. It would be more believable.
Plenty of players cap their level because they feel they are cheating if they level too high, the same way they decide not to use ashes. Then they wonder why their cool MAD build that they want to use doesn't work all that well. Good thing Myazaki gave those guys Fire Knight Greatsword, so they can realize their pure faith melee dream.
"People".

No one has got 2 shot by Radagon and thought "I'm too high leveled, better not level any more"
 

FugueLah

Scholar
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
168
A lot of people are. You are delusional if you don't think so.
Look, if you want to pretend PvPers are people you can. But I'm not going to buy into retardation like that. You may as well say you're a tranny or you enjoy CRPGs if you want to tell lies. It would be more believable.
Plenty of players cap their level because they feel they are cheating if they level too high, the same way they decide not to use ashes. Then they wonder why their cool MAD build that they want to use doesn't work all that well. Good thing Myazaki gave those guys Fire Knight Greatsword, so they can realize their pure faith melee dream.
"People".

No one has got 2 shot by Radagon and thought "I'm too high leveled, better not level any more"
Therein lies one of my main gripes with the game. Not going 40-60 vigor asap is a bit of noob trap.
 

Stoned Ape

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Messages
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The belly of the whale
But there is the opportunity cost of having 99 END and wearing (extremely heavy armour sets with medium rolling) vs (fairly heavy armour with light rolling) and/or equipping additional weapons to quickly swap during combat.

I really don't think the tiny additional damage mitigation really stacks well against any of the other things you can do with the extra encumbrance weight.
The difference in DR from a medium armor 51 poise setup and maxed setup is around 5% at 20 scadu frags. That's 15%+ DR or 15% increased ehp, and not at all insignificant.
That would be true if I were talking about a 51 poise setup, but I wasn't. I specifically mentioned a 71 poise armour set (crucible knight). The DR difference vs full Verdigris is around 2% total DR (after both having Dragoncrest Greatshield and 20 Scudd blessings) for light roll with full talismans and load for weapons (at least enough for buckler + antspur).
 

FugueLah

Scholar
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
168
But there is the opportunity cost of having 99 END and wearing (extremely heavy armour sets with medium rolling) vs (fairly heavy armour with light rolling) and/or equipping additional weapons to quickly swap during combat.

I really don't think the tiny additional damage mitigation really stacks well against any of the other things you can do with the extra encumbrance weight.
The difference in DR from a medium armor 51 poise setup and maxed setup is around 5% at 20 scadu frags. That's 15%+ DR or 15% increased ehp, and not at all insignificant.
That would be true if I were talking about a 51 poise setup, but I wasn't. I specifically mentioned a 71 poise armour set (crucible knight). The DR difference vs full Verdigris is around 2% total DR (after both having Dragoncrest Greatshield and 20 Scudd blessings) for light roll with full talismans and load for weapons (at least enough for buckler + antspur).
You are already close to high end armor already, so I don't understand your point. Even still, 2% difference at that DR is 7.5% EHP. The gigafat amor still sees use and if DR scaled too well at the high end they would be the only armors to ever be used.
 

Stoned Ape

Savant
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You are already close to high end armor already, so I don't understand your point. Even still, 2% difference at that DR is 7.5% EHP. The gigafat amor still sees use and if DR scaled too well at the high end they would be the only armors to ever be used.
My point all along was that very high-end fat-boy armour isn't really worth upgrading to once you get to Crucible (or Tree Sentinel+Erdtree Talisman+2 if you really want) as the gains really don't outweigh the load you have to carry and the extra poise you gain really doesn't make much difference to most of the things you fight in the DLC.

I think it would be generally better if the heaviest armours had a few % more DR, possibly at the expense of making boiled crab or blackflame protection a few % worse (like 17.5%/32.5% instead of 20%/35%).
 

cvv

Arcane
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Mar 30, 2013
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Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
So I've been playing SotE for about 15 hours now and you know what I think FromSoft have done?

I think they've fucked up the encounter design.

Never in my life have I seen open world that's so empty, boring and bland - mob-wise - as SotE. I swear there are huge swaths of land where you find like two enemies in many, many minutes. And sometimes it's a non-respawning giant or a dragon so when you kill them the level is COMPLETELY empty for miles in all directions. The only living things are just rabbits and deer.

And even in the legacy dungeons there's barely any challenge in the encounter design. There is barely anyone able - or even trying - to stop you. The only actual challenge in the game are the bosses, which are amazing. But in between the bosses you're just running through an empty land and carving through occasional - mostly trash - mobs in the legacy dungeons.

I mean, at least the vistas are fucking jawdropping. Otherwise SotE is a bit of a disappointment.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,265
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So I've been playing SotE for about 15 hours now and you know what I think FromSoft have done?

I think they've fucked up the encounter design.

Never in my life have I seen open world that's so empty, boring and bland - mob-wise - as SotE. I swear there are huge swaths of land where you find like two enemies in many, many minutes. And sometimes it's a non-respawning giant or a dragon so when you kill them the level is COMPLETELY empty for miles in all directions. The only living things are just rabbits and deer.

And even in the legacy dungeons there's barely any challenge in the encounter design. There is barely anyone able - or even trying - to stop you. The only actual challenge in the game are the bosses, which are amazing. But in between the bosses you're just running through an empty land and carving through occasional - mostly trash - mobs in the legacy dungeons.

I mean, at least the vistas are fucking jawdropping. Otherwise SotE is a bit of a disappointment.
You did it. You got gud. It's all over now :despair:
 

Odoryuk

Educated
Joined
Mar 26, 2024
Messages
697
I beat Dark Souls 3 on release in 40–ish hours and I already spent more time in the DLC than that. They're fucking crazy.
 

Cheesedragon117

Educated
Joined
Sep 13, 2023
Messages
360
Location
Florida
A bit strange to hear not just one, but two people say nobody stops levelling up at RL125 or RL150, when that's what the entire point of the Scadutree Blessing system is for. For people that don't want to ruin their matchmaking fighting overlevelled hosts and phantoms in PvP. Or "cooperating" with hosts that are OP enough to oneshot most obstacles without your help.

Hell, there's a noticeable trend of players that grinded all the way to max level (either through legit or other means) being noticeably worse at the game then those who stay at meta levels!
 

Stoned Ape

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The belly of the whale
Hell, there's a noticeable trend of players that grinded all the way to max level (either through legit or other means) being noticeably worse at the game then those who stay at meta levels!
Grinding takes virtually no skill, just time and patience. It's not really a surprise that those that grind their way up to max level are far less skilful than players who stay within a level range that will make PvP matchmaking quicker.
 

Socrates

Bonfire Kindler
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Russia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Hell, there's a noticeable trend of players that grinded all the way to max level (either through legit or other means) being noticeably worse at the game then those who stay at meta levels!
Grinding takes virtually no skill, just time and patience. It's not really a surprise that those that grind their way up to max level are far less skilful than players who stay within a level range that will make PvP matchmaking quicker.
No reason to grind in any of their games. You can smash through any challenge with enough skill. SL1 runs exist to prove that.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
And even in the legacy dungeons there's barely any challenge in the encounter design. There is barely anyone able - or even trying - to stop you. The only actual challenge in the game are the bosses, which are amazing. But in between the bosses you're just running through an empty land and carving through occasional - mostly trash - mobs in the legacy dungeons.
I mostly agree except for the 'mini' boss enemies you run into. The Lion/Bird knights are a fucking nightmare of difficulty. The fire knight before Mesmer is arguably harder than Mesmer is. There's a few of those enemies just completely nuts and boss worthy that aren't. Other wise I agree. It isn't helped the hollows in this game are shadow people so they don't stand out.
I beat Dark Souls 3 on release in 40–ish hours and I already spent more time in the DLC than that. They're fucking crazy.
The DLc is about 30-40 hours, which is a solid length for a game. My only issue is a lot of it is spent doing sweet fuck all because you have to pick up scooby snacks.
 

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