From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lyric Suite]

Doesn't change the fact that Nioh's loot is still lightyears ahead of ER.

Buuuulshit.

And don't give me that retardation that i haven't seen the loot systen in full because i only played NG.

The loot systen in Nioh was fucking worthless. 99% of the shit you find went to the vendor, all waiting until NG+ or NG++ for something to show up that may or may not have that suffix with the extra 1% you need, where the game basically turns into a fucking casino.

The Diablo loot system is the shittiest anyone has ever made, and Nioh's implementation was particularly iffy due to the revenant system (no point fighting monsters for loot, just aim for the highest level revenant you can find). The loot system in ER is by FAR superior in every which way imaginable, since it's the same loot system as in Dark Souls, only padded a bit in mats because of the open world shit.

The repetition is more noticeable in ER since combat dungeons are all you find. At least Beth games offer the occasional change of pace, which helps the reused assets go down a little smoother.

No, i'm not buying that argument. It's noticable only because you are comparing it to a game that exclipses Bethesda's slop to such a degree they don't even belong to same reality, namely, Dark Souls.

But in itself the dungeons in ER are infinitely more interesting than anything that as ever been in a Bethesda game since Shiblivion. Show me anything in Skyrim that was even remotely as clever as the Sainted Hero's Grave.

If you get past this notion that the catacombs or caves use the "same assets" (something which in itself has never bothered anyone in any other open world game), there's actually nothing "generic" about those places. It's a variation on a theme but each time there's something different and a new puzzle or gimmick you have to figure out. And the layout of each is build around the Dark Souls classic level design, just in a much more reduced form. They aren't that terribly different from the legacy dungeons in prinple, the different lies in the scale and the fact the legacy dungeons use mostly original assets.

 

[notpl]

I absolutely adore Nioh/2 but the loot is a fucking abomination. It is something you beg people to ignore long enough for them to see how good the game's other fundamentals are.

 

[Lyric Suite]

DD2 has a lower number of enemy types than Elden Ring, but each type of enemy has more unique behaviour patterns and does interesting stuff. You can cause goblins to fight among each other by dodging their attacks so they hit each other, feed raw meat to wolves to make them lose agro, knock cyclopes down so they grab ledges and you can run over them like a bridge, you can climb on a griffin and have it fly you back to it's nest, all sorts of stuff. Each enemy type is far more engaging to encounter than any base mob in ER and they have far more character and charm. They're generally less challenging to beat unless you play like an idiot, and the encounter density is probably a bit on the high side, though.

None of that would matter to someone like Hell Swarm. He would argue that it's "lazy" that the game has so few enemies (some of which, from what i understand, were even brought back from the orignal game). But he doesn't, because his shtick is to shit on FromSoft because he thinks he is being counterculture.

I would also point out that while it's true that in ER all your interaction with the enemies revolves around combat (nature of the game), the design of the enemies themselves aren't exactly easy. The way enemies fight and move in a FromSoft game is considerably more elaborated than in a lot of other games. It would have been easy to just pad the number of bosses by saving time in coming up with complex attack patterns and elaborated animations. Have them swipe at the player with a couple of generic moves and you could have scores of "unique" enemies to fill up those caves and catacombs. The result of course is that people would have bitched all those "unique" bosses were stupid and simplistic, much like they usually are in most other games.

You can argue that this doesn't change the fact it's a bit underwhelming that sometimes you just get to fight the same boss multiple times, but it matters if the argument is that FromSoft has grown "lazy". You can't just focus on the number of bosses themselves, without taking into account the amount of time it must have gone to in designing them. The way each boss must not only be visually striking in a FromSoft game but also present a unique challenge to the player is a standard most other games don't even bother following, and even with that ER has much higher enemy variety than a lot of other games all of which have much more simplistic and basic designs for their creatures.

 

[Silverfish]

And don't give me that retardation that i haven't seen the loot systen in full because i only played NG.

I won't. While some Nioh players lean into the "you haven't experienced the game until NG +4" meme, I'm not one of them. I actually think NG is where both games are at their best, since you're more limited in terms of power.

The loot systen in Nioh was fucking worthless. 99% of the shit you find went to the vendor, all waiting until NG+ or NG++ for something to show up that may or may not have that suffix with the extra 1% you need, where the game basically turns into a fucking casino.

Wrong on both counts. "Useless" loot in Nioh is anything but. Weapons don't have attribute requirements, so unlike the Souls games, you can play around with anything you find and even build up additional proficiency, unlocking new skills. When your stuff inevitably gets replaced by something better, you can 1: break them down for crafting components, 2: give them to the Kodamas in exchange for currency for their shop, or 3: sell them to the blacksmith if your short on funds for something. Which sounds better than amassing thousands of items that sit in the storage box or bloat my inventory forever.

The casino argument is equally off-base. In later NG cycles (really from NG + onward), forging gear and tempering the effects you want is nearly always preferable to grinding drops in missions.

But in itself the dungeons in ER are infinitely more interesting than anything that as ever been in a Bethesda game since Shiblivion. Show me anything in Skyrim that was even remotely as clever as the Sainted Hero's Grave.

You missed my point. In isolation, ER's dungeons are better than most in Beth games. Beth games have more enjoyable exploration overall because you'll find things that aren't combat-focused dungeons. If I'm "exploring" in ER, I know exactly what I'm going to find: Dark Souls in miniature. If I'm exploring in Skyrim I might find a combat dungeon, a puzzle dungeon, a town, a wandering merchant, a random event, a comedy character like M'aiq the Liar, a corpse with a note that kicks off a sidequest, or an area with nothing of note whatsoever but that has some aesthetic value.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Wrong on both counts. "Useless" loot in Nioh is anything but. Weapons don't have attribute requirements, so unlike the Souls games, you can play around with anything you find and even build up additional proficiency, unlocking new skills. When your stuff inevitably gets replaced by something better, you can 1: break them down for crafting components, 2: give them to the Kodamas in exchange for currency for their shop, or 3: sell them to the blacksmith if your short on funds for something. Which sounds better than amassing thousands of items that sit in the storage box or bloat my inventory forever.

The casino argument is equally off-base. In later NG cycles (really from NG + onward), forging gear and tempering the effects you want is nearly always preferable to grinding drops in missions.

None of that is interesting to me in the slighest. When i find loot, i want it to mean something. The Diablo system is a cancer that has ruined far too many RPGs in my opinion. I applaud FromSoft for staying clear of that retardation when they originally made Demon Souls. All the games i played where i remember the loot fondly all had unique loot. The Infinite Engine games belong there as well. Nioh i just vendored all the trash (I.E., all of it) and stuck to whatever the revenants were dropping.

You missed my point. In isolation, ER's dungeons are better than most in Beth games. Beth games have more enjoyable exploration overall because you'll find things that aren't combat-focused dungeons. If I'm "exploring" in ER, I know exactly what I'm going to find: Dark Souls in miniature. If I'm exploring in Skyrim I might find a combat dungeon, a puzzle dungeon, a town, a wandering merchant, a random event, a comedy character like M'aiq the Liar, a corpse with a note that kicks off a sidequest, or an area with nothing of note whatsoever but that has some aesthetic value.

Yeah but it's all shit so who gives a fuck. You are also making a comparison that is not relevant. ER is a combat game, it was never intended to be a LARPing simulator like Skyshit. If you think a combat game has no business being "open world" that's an ok argument to have but to say that Skyrim is more interesting because of shit like poorly written genetic fetch quests, poorly written NPCs, poorly designed encounters etc is beyond absurd.

 

[Lyric Suite]

When the video guy says Bosses don't explain things he's correct.

They don't have to, because the idea is that you have to figure out that shit on your own. Normies just want their dumbed down slop be honest.

 

[Silverfish]

There's the infamous gif of Margitt holding up his sword for like 20 seconds getting ready to punish a player for pushing a button. WTF is that communicating to the player?

Don't push a button. The only winning move is not to play.

None of that is interesting to me in the slighest. When i find loot, i want it to mean something.

Yes, what could be more meaningful than a sword you don't have the stats for, will never equip and serves no function even as junk?

Yeah but it's all shit so who gives a fuck. You are also making a comparison that is not relevant. ER is a combat game, it was never intended to be a LARPing simulator like Skyshit. If you think a combat game has no business being "open world" that's an ok argument to have but to say that Skyrim is more interesting because of shit like poorly written genetic fetch quests, poorly written NPCs, poorly designed encounters etc is beyond absurd.

It's actually pretty reasonable to want contrast and variety over the same thing repeated for 100 hours. And Skyrim, along with the Beth Fallouts are more interesting because of their non-combat elements, poorly implemented as they may be. It's funny that you mentioned ER as being a combat game since Skyrim also has better combat, but you're very clearly not ready for that conversation.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's funny that you mentioned ER as being a combat game since Skyrim also has better combat,

Ok now i know i'm talking to a mental defective.

 

[Silverfish]

Ok now i know i'm talking to a mental defective.

This loses its sting when you said the same thing after I agreed with you on a previous post.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Yes, what could be more meaningful than a sword you don't have the stats for, will never equip and serves no function even as junk?

Every single one of those supposed pieces of "junk" has dozens of possible future builds filed in my brain. Whenever i find a new weapon in a FromSoft game i have to stash it quickly because it could be the beginning of a new love i may not afford.

Loot in Diablo-likes it's literally just refuse. Whenever i play a game with that system i feel dirty, like i just stepped into a seedy gambling parlor. It's incredibly immersion breaking and it is only one step away from loot boxes and micro-transactions.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Ok now i know i'm talking to a mental defective.

This loses its sting when you said the same thing after I agreed with you on a previous post.

I can't take anybody seriously after a comment like that.

 

[cvv]

Loot in Diablo-likes it's literally just refuse. Whenever i play a game with that system i feel dirty

Didn't want to jump in this debate which tilts more and more to retardation but what I can say is this - before you talk expansively about Nioh loot being exactly like Diablo you should at least play the game.

 

[Silverfish]

Every single one of those supposed pieces of "junk" has dozens of possible future builds filed in my brain. Whenever i find a new weapon in a FromSoft game i have to stash it quickly because it could be the beginning of a new love i may not afford.

Well naturally, who wouldn't come up with dozens of builds for the light crossbow?

Loot in Diablo-likes it's literally just refuse. Whenever i play a game with that system i feel dirty, like i just stepped into a seedy gambling parlor. It's incredibly immersion breaking and it is only one step away from loot boxes and micro-transactions.

I can totally see the similarity between free and paid items in a game.

I can't take anybody seriously after a comment like that.

It's cool. I haven't taken you seriously for a while now.

 

[abija]

Didn't want to jump in this debate which tilts more and more to retardation but what I can say is this - before you talk expansively about Nioh loot being exactly like Diablo you should at least play the game.

So which are the significant differences between loot in D3 and Nioh? Maybe I was sleeping when playing Nioh and didn't notice them. Sure team ninja doesn't design for 2yr olds so the system is actually populated instead of being kept to a minimum. It also takes a LOT longer to get to the item hunting part so probably most people don't get to it. But it sure looks like same system to me.

I don't even have a problem with that type of loot system (I thought it fit the game) but it me made mostly ignore loot in Nioh since I had the feeling it only really matters in later stages and I didn't feel like spending the time to get there after finishing the games. So what did I miss that made it meaningful in that first run?

 

[cvv]

Didn't want to jump in this debate which tilts more and more to retardation but what I can say is this - before you talk expansively about Nioh loot being exactly like Diablo you should at least play the game.

So which are the significant differences between loot in D3 and Nioh? Maybe I was sleeping when playing Nioh

I'm not saying both systems are totally different, they're clearly close, it's more about how both influence (taint) the gameplay. In Nioh you can craft, reforge, soul match, inherit effects etc. The result is the whole thing is way less grindy and the gameplay much more enjoyable, which is what we're talking about here.

In other words, diablo after a while starts to feel like brainless gambling machine but in Nioh the loot system doesn't interfere with the game being a proper, hardcore, rich action-RPG even after dozens of hours. That's why I said you have to PLAY the game first to understand the difference.

 

[Haplo]

Didn't want to jump in this debate which tilts more and more to retardation but what I can say is this - before you talk expansively about Nioh loot being exactly like Diablo you should at least play the game.

So which are the significant differences between loot in D3 and Nioh? Maybe I was sleeping when playing Nioh and didn't notice them. Sure team ninja doesn't design for 2yr olds so the system is actually populated instead of being kept to a minimum. It also takes a LOT longer to get to the item hunting part so probably most people don't get to it. But it sure looks like same system to me.

I don't even have a problem with that type of loot system but it me made mostly ignore loot in Nioh since I had the feeling it only really matters in later stages and I didn't feel like spending the time to get there after finishing the games. So what did I miss that made it meaningful in that first run?

Well, there's actually different design philosphy there.
Soulslikes are: find a weapon, learn its moveset, adapt your gamestyle to the new weapon if you like it (and it fits your build... or maybe you can change the build nowadays).
There is (usually) only 1 off each weapon with its moveset. You keep investing in the weapons you like with upgrading mats to improve their stats.

Nioh is very different. You choose a weapon and abilities you'd like to focus on and have that weapon from the start and generally stick with it (although you can switch, if you want to), improving your mastery in it, learning its new abilities troughout the game.
And you find better versions of that weapon type troughout the game. Plus you get to choose from a plethora of pet spirits, which will enchance your combat abilities and offer extra powers (which are also tailored to specific playstyles and even weapons). Plus you gather equipment "sets", which bestow various powerful bonuses, some of which fit your playstyle well.

Edit: The question concerned D3 and Nioh
Well, I'll leave this here anyway.


Perhaps the biggest difference from Diablo is how customizable everything is in Nioh. You can train Ninjutsu, Onmyo magic alongside your main arm, you can even invest in ranged combat. And you can fine tune your equipment and spirit pet to perfectly support your build.
A Barbarian won't be using magic and ranged weaponry in Diablo.

 

[abija]

In Nioh you can craft, reforge, soul match, inherit effects etc. The result is the whole thing is way less grindy and the gameplay much more enjoyable, which is what we're talking about here.

Just like in D3?

In other words, diablo after a while starts to feel like brainless gambling machine but in Nioh the loot system doesn't interfere with the game being a proper, hardcore, rich action-RPG even after dozens of hours. That's why I said you have to PLAY the game first to understand the difference.

Did you get in Nioh to the item hunting part, when you look for specific things? Dooes the loot even really matter til then other than adding a tiny bit of spice to the action gameplay?

 

[HumanTotemPole]

Perfume bottles and a decent shield break PvE outside bosses. Enemies not able to deal with the AoE or the lingering hitbox other than by poising through it. With a modicum of timing and positioning easy to chip down anything. Very low commit on the attack animations as well and a built in feint. Feels like they need an ammo limit.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

A Barbarian won't be using magic and ranged weaponry in Diablo

Or anywhere else.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Loot in Diablo-likes it's literally just refuse. Whenever i play a game with that system i feel dirty

Didn't want to jump in this debate which tilts more and more to retardation but what I can say is this - before you talk expansively about Nioh loot being exactly like Diablo you should at least play the game.

I did.

No difference in the loot system that i can see other than the fact Nioh was actually worse. At least Diablo does have unique weapons.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Didn't want to jump in this debate which tilts more and more to retardation but what I can say is this - before you talk expansively about Nioh loot being exactly like Diablo you should at least play the game.

So which are the significant differences between loot in D3 and Nioh? Maybe I was sleeping when playing Nioh and didn't notice them. Sure team ninja doesn't design for 2yr olds so the system is actually populated instead of being kept to a minimum. It also takes a LOT longer to get to the item hunting part so probably most people don't get to it. But it sure looks like same system to me.

I don't even have a problem with that type of loot system but it me made mostly ignore loot in Nioh since I had the feeling it only really matters in later stages and I didn't feel like spending the time to get there after finishing the games. So what did I miss that made it meaningful in that first run?

Well, there's actually different design philosphy there.
Soulslikes are: find a weapon, learn its moveset, adapt your gamestyle to the new weapon if you like it (and it fits your build... or maybe you can change the build nowadays).
There is (usually) only 1 off each weapon with its moveset. You keep investing in the weapons you like with upgrading mats to improve their stats.

Nioh is very different. You choose a weapon and abilities you'd like to focus on and have that weapon from the start and generally stick with it (although you can switch, if you want to), improving your mastery in it, learning its new abilities troughout the game.
And you find better versions of that weapon type troughout the game. Plus you get to choose from a plethora of pet spirits, which will enchance your combat abilities and offer extra powers (which are also tailored to specific playstyles and even weapons). Plus you gather equipment "sets", which bestow various powerful bonuses, some of which fit your playstyle well.

Edit: The question concerned D3 and Nioh
Well, I'll leave this here anyway.


Perhaps the biggest difference from Diablo is how customizable everything is in Nioh. You can train Ninjutsu, Onmyo magic alongside your main arm, you can even invest in ranged combat. And you can fine tune your equipment and spirit pet to perfectly support your build.
A Barbarian won't be using magic and ranged weaponry in Diablo.

The skill system and the loot system are two different things.

Also, i'm not a fan of the kind of "fine tuning" that goes on those games too. I just don't like lottery aspect, and i don't like to scrounge for extra percentages on stats i don't even know what they do half the time. Even in Diablo, i used to do Diablo/Baal runs to find unique gear. I have no taste for all this nonsense about grinding to get the resources for rerolling on your items so you can get that extra 1% on your suffixes or prefixes to me it just feels like a system designed to dupe people even more, and i think Diablo 4 is a case in point in that respect given the number of suffixes and stats is ludicrously and unnecessarily high. It's intentionally made so you have to grind EVEN more. Look at this fucking shit for the love of God:

https://blizzardwatch.com/2023/07/21/diablo-4-titles-complete-list/

I don't care if 90% of the weapons you find are going to be stashed away never to be used. That is true even in D&D. Hell, i used to get excited when i found bard shit in the Infinite Engine games even if i had no bards in my party. Just the fact that stuff was there enriched the game for me, and also enriched the world. I mean didn't Lord of the Rings inspire this loot shit in RPGs? Did Frodo worry about suffixes when he picked up Sting?

Games for me are supposed to be experiences, not surrogates for gambling.

And then there's the added fact loot in FromSoft games are a vehilcle for story telling. Even if you don't use the item you still need it to figure out the plot.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Didn't want to jump in this debate which tilts more and more to retardation but what I can say is this - before you talk expansively about Nioh loot being exactly like Diablo you should at least play the game.

So which are the significant differences between loot in D3 and Nioh? Maybe I was sleeping when playing Nioh

I'm not saying both systems are totally different, they're clearly close, it's more about how both influence (taint) the gameplay. In Nioh you can craft, reforge, soul match, inherit effects etc. The result is the whole thing is way less grindy and the gameplay much more enjoyable, which is what we're talking about here.

In other words, diablo after a while starts to feel like brainless gambling machine but in Nioh the loot system doesn't interfere with the game being a proper, hardcore, rich action-RPG even after dozens of hours. That's why I said you have to PLAY the game first to understand the difference.

Loot system is one thing, Nioh as a game is another. Even if you argue the system integrates better in Nioh than it does in Diablo, when looked at in isolation it shares all the same issues. When i played the game i just used that option to vendor all the loot in bulk so i didn't even have to look at it. Best loot was Warrior of the West set and Odachi anyway. Why? It's all the revenants wore, and the revenants had the best loot. There wasn't even a carrot on that stick.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Well naturally, who wouldn't come up with dozens of builds for the light crossbow?

Yeah well, imagine light crossbow except now you have to grind and gamble to maximize minute percentages on its basic stats. And because of that, you don't have to deal with having to shove the light crossbow in the stash. You have to deal with millions of them, to be sifted through a myriad of other shit you don't need or want. That is the Diablo system for you.

 

[Haplo]

Didn't want to jump in this debate which tilts more and more to retardation but what I can say is this - before you talk expansively about Nioh loot being exactly like Diablo you should at least play the game.

So which are the significant differences between loot in D3 and Nioh? Maybe I was sleeping when playing Nioh

I'm not saying both systems are totally different, they're clearly close, it's more about how both influence (taint) the gameplay. In Nioh you can craft, reforge, soul match, inherit effects etc. The result is the whole thing is way less grindy and the gameplay much more enjoyable, which is what we're talking about here.

In other words, diablo after a while starts to feel like brainless gambling machine but in Nioh the loot system doesn't interfere with the game being a proper, hardcore, rich action-RPG even after dozens of hours. That's why I said you have to PLAY the game first to understand the difference.

Loot system is one thing, Nioh as a game is another. Even if you argue the system integrates better in Nioh than it does in Diablo, when looked at in isolation it shares all the same issues. When i played the game i just used that option to vendor all the loot in bulk so i didn't even have to look at it. Best loot was Warrior of the West set and Odachi anyway. Why? It's all the revenants wore, and the revenants had the best loot. There wasn't even a carrot on that stick.

You have a point. Revenants kind of break the system and were a mistake IMO - at least getting their gear. That said, you COULD avoid this trap by using a less popular weapon that is not FOTM / last released weapon.

Also Warrior of the West might be a great early game set that most people wear, but later the set bonuses are much more nuanced and tailored towards specific playstyles. So users of different weapons will often use migrate towards different sets.

 

[Stoned Ape]

DD2 has a lower number of enemy types than Elden Ring, but each type of enemy has more unique behaviour patterns and does interesting stuff. You can cause goblins to fight among each other by dodging their attacks so they hit each other, feed raw meat to wolves to make them lose agro, knock cyclopes down so they grab ledges and you can run over them like a bridge, you can climb on a griffin and have it fly you back to it's nest, all sorts of stuff. Each enemy type is far more engaging to encounter than any base mob in ER and they have far more character and charm. They're generally less challenging to beat unless you play like an idiot, and the encounter density is probably a bit on the high side, though.

None of that would matter to someone like Hell Swarm. He would argue that it's "lazy" that the game has so few enemies (some of which, from what i understand, were even brought back from the orignal game). But he doesn't, because his shtick is to shit on FromSoft because he thinks he is being counterculture.

I would also point out that while it's true that in ER all your interaction with the enemies revolves around combat (nature of the game), the design of the enemies themselves aren't exactly easy. The way enemies fight and move in a FromSoft game is considerably more elaborated than in a lot of other games. It would have been easy to just pad the number of bosses by saving time in coming up with complex attack patterns and elaborated animations. Have them swipe at the player with a couple of generic moves and you could have scores of "unique" enemies to fill up those caves and catacombs. The result of course is that people would have bitched all those "unique" bosses were stupid and simplistic, much like they usually are in most other games.

You can argue that this doesn't change the fact it's a bit underwhelming that sometimes you just get to fight the same boss multiple times, but it matters if the argument is that FromSoft has grown "lazy". You can't just focus on the number of bosses themselves, without taking into account the amount of time it must have gone to in designing them. The way each boss must not only be visually striking in a FromSoft game but also present a unique challenge to the player is a standard most other games don't even bother following, and even with that ER has much higher enemy variety than a lot of other games all of which have much more simplistic and basic designs for their creatures.

The majority of the enemy types are brought back from DD2, there are only a few completely new enemies. However, those 'old' enemies have new models, animations, and behaviour so it's not as if they were just recycled.

I agree, the focus of ER is fighting and exploration (which I personally enjoy), overcoming challenging boss battles alone, with online coop (not actually tried that myself TBH), or through NPCs summoned from golden signs. The focus of DD2 is going on adventures with a party of AI buddies who interact with each other. They are very different games with completely different design objectives.

The DD2 world is more simulated so a band of monsters might attack a merchant and his guards as you're travelling along an old footpath, if you save him you might get a reward. A griffin might swoop down to kill an oxen for food while you're wandering past, do you hope it doesn't notice you and try to run away or attack it in case it draws out more monsters from the area and they all dogpile you? While you're fighting a group of goblins an ogre might be disturbed and crash through the trees and grab your mage (ogres prefer to prey on women) then throw her off a cliff.

The world feels its alive and things are going on without your direct intervention. The challenge is generally dealing with unexpected stuff that another player might not encounter. Fast travel is limited and requires carrying items, weight limits are strict and it's much better to travel light so you might give your heavy tent and quick travel items to one of your party to carry, but if something happens to them you'll have to make it back to civilization without being able to easily escape or rest.

For example I was exploring a new section of a map with my party and crossed a rope bridge while fighting a group of bandits. I made it across with my warrior companion but my mage and archer were still on the bridge when the bandits cut the ropes and the bridge fell into a river, taking my ranged companions with it. I killed the bandits, but my mage was carrying the fast travel gear so I was pretty much stuck on the far side of a gorge as night was falling with no clear way back out, limited healing, and no clue where the nearest campsite was so I couldn't pass time to morning in an area with no real lighting which was filled with unknown enemies.

TL;DR I enjoy both games, but they have very little in common. The only duped boss that annoyed me in ER was Godefroy. Cloning a demigod just seems a bit stupid and broke my immersion.