From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

It makes sense in that your armor gives you the ability to lessen blows. The implementation just sucks.

It worked pretty good in DS1, probably because they had no hyperarmor so you couldn't get cucked by animations.

With the way that things stagger you in souls games, heavy armor would be mostly useless if it didn't also prevent staggers. That's usually what gets you killed, not raw damage.

 

[Lyric Suite]

What I find funniest is that Lyric responds to a post making literal points with a reason for why they ruin the game and aren't legit.

Summons don't "ruin" the game. If you don't use them, their existence won't affect you in any way whatsoever.

 

[Hell Swarm]

I fucking love laughing at Lyric's insanity. It never gets old.

"From make everything to be used and balance the game round it" VS "Summons can be ignored and From hasn't intentionally balanced the game around a co-op experience despite heavily pushing you towards using them and making the super boss in the base game specifically counter them"

DS1's poise was completely broken and made it better to just stack full armour and trade with bosses than learn them. There's that great Arti video of a stone armoured fat roller walking up to arti and hitting him over and over when he was one of the hardest bosses ever. It's not even a close fight, he can't touch the guy doing it.

 

[Lyric Suite]

There's nothing wrong with rolling, i-frame combat or stamina management

Not on their own, no.

That's not what you are arguing, don't try to change the goalpost now. The argument is literally that rolling is a bad game mechanic. Except it isn't.

There's a fair question though as to whether or not Demon's Souls' fairly simplistic combat mechanics should be stretched out over a hundred hours.

Aside for this being something you pulled out of your ass again (can't be stretched for hundred of hours? Says who?), one of your main complaint about Elden Ring is that you are given a myriad of options to trivalize content. Those options of course disappear completely when it comes to making the strawman argument that all you can do in this game is roll your way through hundreds of hours worth of gameplay. Spells? Weapon arts? Nah, that shit suddenly doesn't exist anymore.

But like i said, the argument is false in itself. There's nothing wrong about the whole game being based on rolling, much like there's nothing wrong about Sekiro being build around exclusively on the deflection mechanic. You guys are trying so hard to find things to complaint about in Elden Ring that you have now moved onto denigrating everything FromSoft has ever done, at which point, why are you even here? Go play something else who the fuck is forcing you?

 

[Lyric Suite]

"From make everything to be used and balance the game round it" VS "Summons can be ignored and From hasn't intentionally balanced the game around a co-op experience despite heavily pushing you towards using them and making the super boss in the base game specifically counter them"

Except bosses are all designed for single play. The double or tripple bosses in the base game were created with summons in mind but even there you still don't have to use them. And that's pretty much it as far as them experimenting with making spirit ashes a thing you are supposed to be using goes. None of the bosses in the DLC are meant to be "countered" with summons. You can do them solo like you would with any other boss from their previous games, and if you can't do it, that's called skill issue.

See, this argument you are making now is conflating what is recommended for the unskilled or novice player to what can be done in principle, which is a running theme with all your arguments. I make a suggestion about how the a new player might tackle a problem, and you automatically start arguing as if that was the ONLY way to deal with bosses in the game. From "you can do it this way", we go from "it can ONLY be done this way".

Is FromSoft inviting players to use summons in the DLC? Yes, you even have NPCs you can summon in the arena. Does it mean bosses were designed with summons in mind? No. Does it mean they can't be done without summons? No. So nothing was "ruined".

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

You are a fucking idiot if you think the summons are remotely balanced, or their current state is something that can be considered acceptable because "you don't have to use them".

Useless summons affect major parts of the game. There's nothing more frustrating than completing a dungeon, only to be rewarded with a mostly useless summon. There's no point collecting all the grave wax when we're only going to be using the Mimic Tear and 1-2 other summons for the whole game. After 100 hours of playtime (which can easily encompass a typical playthrough), the game gets quite boring and stale if we only ever use 1-2 weapons and 1-2 summons, but the frankly atrocious balance generally means that if we don't stick with the handful of really good ones, we're at a significant disadvantage. Sure, I COULD use the jellyfish summon, or I COULD use no summon at all, and it might be "fun" for a little while. But when I get my face caved in repeatedly by a boss, I'm going to switch back to one of the actually good ones. Because doing anything else would be stupid.

Lyric, you've made it abundantly obvious that you like the game. That is your right. However, that doesn't give you a free pass to be completely retarded. Elden Ring is far from perfect and it's baffling how blind you seem to be to this fact. The game balance just kind of sucks, and you defending it's worst qualities doesn't really accomplish anything other than making you look stupid.

For what it's worth, I enjoy the game a lot and am doing another playthrough right now for the DLC and having a good time. It's just a shame that it could have been so much better. The game has done a very good job of including a lot of content. It's just annoying how much of it will sit in a typical players inventory gathering dust because it's either completely useless or decent but completely overshadowed by something else.

This doesn't just apply to weapons and ashes. Why would anyone ever use the light spell or the torch when you can literally get a lantern within 1-2 hours of typical gameplay? FROM added 3 separate torch items, and all of them are completely useless.

Elden Ring is a bloated, unbalanced mess. Yes, it's a lot of fun. But it's also far from perfect and it's not even the best Souls game, let alone being above criticism. Your "responses" to criticism are just plain dumb and handwaive away the games real problems.

 

[Hell Swarm]

This doesn't just apply to weapons and ashes. Why would anyone ever use the light spell or the torch when you can literally get a lantern within 1-2 hours of typical gameplay? FROM added 3 separate torch items, and all of them are completely useless.

I will defend the torches but it's very niche.

Sentinel torch reveals invisible enemies so it's good for 1 boss and getting into the haligtree. It's really useful exactly once.
Beast repelling torch does what it says on the tin and I found it useful once in the DLC to scare off wolves because I was looking for a pick up there and couldn't be bothered to fight or rush past.

But you're right the latern is just better.

 

[Odoryuk]

There's nothing more frustrating than completing a dungeon, only to be rewarded with a mostly useless summon.

You get to know about the enemy you can summon a little more, sometimes it's the only way to learn a specific enemy's name, and that's enough. The same principle when you're finding a spell while playing a Quality build - you won't use it, but it has information about the world that you will learn

 

[Hell Swarm]

There's nothing more frustrating than completing a dungeon, only to be rewarded with a mostly useless summon.

You get to know about the enemy you can summon a little more, sometimes it's the only way to learn a specific enemy's name, and that's enough. The same principle when you're finding a spell while playing a Quality build - you won't use it, but it has information about the world that you will learn

Please tell me this is a joke. Is a fucking NAME now a dungeon reward?

 

[Lyric Suite]

Lyric, you've made it abundantly obvious that you like the game.

It's less that i like the game and more that i absolute despise bad arguments. It's like my bane. If Hell Swarm was arguing like this about a game i hate, like say anything by Bethesda, i'd be up there defending that too.

 

[Odoryuk]

Is a fucking NAME now a dungeon reward?

A NAME and a DESCRIPTION

 

[Hell Swarm]

Is a fucking NAME now a dungeon reward?

A NAME and a DESCRIPTION

What kind of an autistic LOSER looks at a companion summon and goes "Gee, I'm sure glad that's useless but now I know it's got Shitsnaffer the tomb wizard and it likes to finger it's arsehole"? Seriously..

Lyric, you've made it abundantly obvious that you like the game.

It's less that i like the game and more that i absolute despise bad arguments. It's like my bane. If Hell Swarm was arguing like this about a game i hate, like say anything by Bethesda, i'd be up there defending that too.

You literally do nothing but make bad arguments Lyric. You never have an argument, you never have a point. You shit up the thread and never engage with a single discussion honestly. You just want to argue to defend From games because your ego is tied to breaking them. I've done multiple play throughs while you autistically find ways to break bosses because you're not good enough to do it properly. Then you bitch at YOUR SUPERIORS because they can judge the game fairly while you can't.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I've paid a lot more closer attention to enviormental story telling because of the little let's play i'm doing and i was surprised at how coherent it actually is once you pay attention to it. If i ever get to replay the base game i'd have to play closer attention of what you find and where. I see a lot of those "useless" drops were probably put there just for lore purposes. Whether that's seen as "worthless" is relative. There are games where finding out more about the story IS the reward you are looking for.

 

[abija]

There's no point collecting all the grave wax when we're only going to be using the Mimic Tear and 1-2 other summons for the whole game.

Just because you did that, doesn't mean everyone did that. It's a pretty big distinction.

What kind of an autistic LOSER looks at a companion summon and goes "Gee, I'm sure glad that's useless but now I know it's got Shitsnaffer the tomb wizard and it likes to finger it's arsehole"? Seriously.

If you can't accept descriptions in From games have value, why are you even playing them?

 

[HeatEXTEND]

This has always been the case, if you're playing without a shield you're playing on optional hard mode.

Here we go again; Bullshit except for late-game shields, before that 2-handing a DPS/stun weapon or powerstancing and destroying bosses is much easier than "playing fair". Lategame shields do feel like ez mode but before that it's just complicating the stamina management game for.....absolutely no reason, you could be destroying those bosses. DPS/Poisebreakers are ez mode, proper knights are hard-mode, for 80% of the game.
And with the new Sekiro tear (completely bonkers OP, but fun )....yeah.

 

[Lyric Suite]

You literally do nothing but make bad arguments Lyric. You never have an argument, you never have a point. You shit up the thread and never engage with a single discussion honestly.

Now he is moved onto accusing others of what he is doing.

 

[abija]

Make false claims, seethe that others have fun the wrong way, try to bully, play victim, accuse others of what you just did, rinse and repeat.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I never said no spirit ashes. They're very clearly intended in Elden Ring.

Everyone can play the game however the fuck they want, it's a singleplayer game, but using ashes vs not using them are pretty much two different games, their use intended or not.

 

[Odoryuk]

What kind of an autistic LOSER looks at a companion summon and goes "Gee, I'm sure glad that's useless

Weren't you the one who stated that only losers need summons, the ones that are useful?..

 

[Lyric Suite]

Ashes could have been more interesting if their use was more varied. There are some that do have passive or latent benefit to the player that goes beyond their combat usefulness, but even those most of the time get involved into the combat, which is what "ruins" bosses because it changes the dynamic completely, presumably in your favor, often against you (boss movesets are tuned for a single target the second their attention moves between you and the summon and back to you it results into a complete mess at times).

In the open world, i found ashes to be quite ok. They can help you clear the boring stuff faster which isn't bad. If you weren't spending the FP on ashes you'd be spending it on spells to clear out hordes of mooks so what difference is there (builds that don't use spells might get even more milage out of this). Whenever i'm farming i always use ashes because why wouldn't you. If you count spells and weapon arts, ashes in themselves aren't really that problematic it's only against bosses that they become a problem because of how they can confuse the AI.

Outside of the niche uses i just mentioned, i never used them because of course i want to do everything "fair and square" but i don't mind the attempt at trying something "new", even if it could have been done better.

Elden Ring actually sort of shares something with Dark Souls 2 in how both games tried to do a lot of new things, but sometimes it felt they didn't think everything through. So on one hand you have the added novelty factor, on the other you can't help scratch your head and wonder what they were thinking.

BTW, speaking of Dark Souls 2 and things "intended" by the developers, i'm reminded how everybody absolutely hated those extra areas in each of the DLCs (Frigid Outskirts in particular) that were CLEARLY intended for co-op but everybody did them solo anyway (and then bitched about them endlessly). Sure, maybe forced co-op shouldn't be a thing in those games, but still, they wanted to do something, why not do it their way? I did all those areas solo myself but i didn't complaint since i knew what i was getting into. Those areas is what gave me the idea the double and tripple bosses in Elden Ring were sort of intended to be fought with spirit ashes. I did them all solo, but the way people complained about them (to the point FromSoft felt compelled to nerf the AI, a HUGE mistake in my opinion). If you found them so irritating, why not do it the intended way?

 

[Hell Swarm]

If you can't accept descriptions in From games have value, why are you even playing them?

you play games for the item descriptions? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! What a fucking loser.

 

[Odoryuk]

you play games for the item descriptions? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! What a fucking loser.

The text information you get from equipment and other things is important for getting the right vibes. If you totally ignore the narrative and aesthetic work that FromSoftware does in their games, then you are, my dear Hell Swarm, a fool!

 

[Hell Swarm]

The deep lore of post-it notes and absolutely no story as to why you have to murder every creature in the world. A tale truly worthy of toilet paper.

 

[Silverfish]

And he's too fucking stupid to even see the second half of a single line of text so claims there is no point.

He just didn't see it yet. I've noticed an occasional tick he has where he'll respond to a single post over multiple of his own. Just wait a day or so and you'll get a response to the second half.

Don't ever use triangle. 2 handing your weapon is cheating.

You guys use weapons? For shame.

What I find funniest is that Lyric responds to a post making literal points with a reason for why they ruin the game and aren't legit.

Summons don't "ruin" the game. If you don't use them, their existence won't affect you in any way whatsoever.

Having trouble keeping track?

There's that great Arti video of a stone armoured fat roller walking up to arti and hitting him over and over when he was one of the hardest bosses ever. It's not even a close fight, he can't touch the guy doing it.

Even a lot of challenge runners go full Havel's for the Four Kings. DS1 poise is God-tier.

That's not what you are arguing, don't try to change the goalpost now. The argument is literally that rolling is a bad game mechanic. Except it isn't.

How can I change the goalpost when this is my first post in relation to stamina / rolling / i-frames? I never argued that these are bad mechanics, just that they're better suited for shorter games like Demon's and Dark 1 due to their simplicity.

Aside for this being something you pulled out of your ass again (can't be stretched for hundred of hours? Says who?)

Not can't. Shouldn't.

one of your main complaint about Elden Ring is that you are given a myriad of options to trivalize content.

You're confusing me with Hell Swarm again. My stance from the get-go, and in fact even in response to the video you posted that HS found lacking, is that you should use everything at your disposal and that melting bosses with overpowered builds is what constitutes getting good. My souls philosophy, summarized (timestamped at 22:50):

You guys are trying so hard to find things to complaint about in Elden Ring that you have now moved onto denigrating everything FromSoft has ever done

"You guys." I've brought up previous entries of the series as a positive comparison to ER. You're fucking struggling to keep up. Hate to see it.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Zanzibart... forgive me

I ask you forgive me, dearest Nanaya

Which is the DEEP lore of a souls game and which is a joke?