From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Hell Swarm]

"It's innovation to remove all your options and change how parry works and other wise the game remains near identical"

Genius post.

Yeah, but consistently making better games than any other studio is no excuse for reusing a short sword.

Since Dark souls 3 the discussion has been "From are making BAD action games instead of GOOD adventure games" and Elden ring cements that into place.

 

[Vic]

This is what in the entire history of this medium there has never been a "perfect" game, unless it's something so basic a single person could do (like Tetris for instance).

That's not true. There are "perfect" games in the same sense as there are "perfect" books. Games are mostly about the gameplay. So if you get that right, it's not too important if the art is a little shit, or the music is a little shit.

 

[NJClaw]

I just can't decide which one is dumber between "Boo-hoo, FS reuses animations for weapons' movesets!!!" and "They are lazy because the game doesn't play an animation when an NPC gives you an item".

Elden Ring does indeed have flaws, but these two examples are just pointless complaints nobody cares about. One of the highest achievements of this series is getting rid of superfluous shit that doesn't actively improve the core gameplay and you want them to... add out-of-combat animations?

Since Dark souls 3 the discussion has been "From are making BAD action games instead of GOOD adventure games" and Elden ring cements that into place.

I utterly and wholeheartedly despise the action games you're referring to, while I love and cherish DS3, Sekiro, and ER. If they're making "bad" action games, then that's a genre that actually resonates with an audience.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's very much broken and it looks stupid.

Never noticed it and never saw it as a problem.

This is just an hold over style they inherited from King's Field where every NPC interaction is intended to create this feeling of loneliness and desolation. The NPC moving realistically would be besides the point. The fact they are even reticent to give them lip movement (some have them, some don't) shows they are just trying to remain within the King's Field style (in the original game NPCs didn't even have faces at all, which made them even more mysterious).

This kind of minimalism is of course one of the major running themes of those games, most glaringly in the narrative style.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Since Dark souls 3 the discussion has been "From are making BAD action games instead of GOOD adventure games" and Elden ring cements that into place.

Neither Souls 3 nor Elden Ring is on the level of their peak, so I might have accepted the idea that From are on a declining trajectory if it hadn't been for Sekiro, which is their second-latest game and some of their best work.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Elden Ring does indeed have flaws, but these two examples are just pointless complaints nobody cares about. One of the highest achievements of this series is getting rid of superfluous shit that doesn't actively improve the core gameplay and you want them to... add out-of-combat animations?

I care about it so clearly it's not "nobody" now is it? I'm tired of From being lazy and half arsing basic elements.

I utterly and wholeheartedly despise the action games you're referring to, while I love and cherish DS3, Sekiro, and ER. If they're making "bad" action games, then that's a genre that actually resonates with an audience.

You mean the original audience who have been complaining and all rally around "The lost art of demons souls" video? Arguably The audience has been ditched for goyslop lovers like yourself.

Since Dark souls 3 the discussion has been "From are making BAD action games instead of GOOD adventure games" and Elden ring cements that into place.

Neither Souls 3 nor Elden Ring is on the level of their peak, so I might have accepted the idea that From are on a declining trajectory if it hadn't been for Sekiro, which is their second-latest game and some of their best work.

Sekiro is unplayable. It has Dark souls 2 hit boxes and couldn't even do a grappling hook properly. Wasn't even worth playing for more than an hour to confirm From are lazy and can't make stealth games.

Vic doesn't even know what perfect means.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Complaining about hitboxes in Sekiro tells me you never bothered to learn how to actually play it. All edge aside, if you really do like From games, and you think it's possible for you to lay your prejudices aside, you should give it a proper go sometime.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Complaining about hitboxes in Sekiro tells me you never bothered to learn how to actually play it. All edge aside, if you really do like From games, and you think it's possible for you to lay your prejudices aside, you should give it a proper go sometime.

This video sums up my Sekiro experience perfectly. If you think this hit box is acceptable and you need to "learn how to actually play it" then I don't know what you're smoking but it's strong stuff. Why would I want to play yet another game full of broken hit boxes and high damage when I could play a good game instead?

 

[Max Damage]

But anybody who has played Dark Souls 3 can see that his heart wasn't in this project.

As someone who replayed 3 the most out of DaS trilogy, I never got that feeling. Previous 2 games at points feel like they either ran out of budget or just didn't give a shit.

Anyway, I reached parts past Morgott, and at this point I'm never buying anything by From ever again. The amount of same repeated shit is ridiculous at this point, except now with even less stuff to find because apparently this is small inexperienced indie company that couldn't bother to place anything original in snow lands. They even gave up copypasting dungeons, there's like 2 tiny caves, was the level development at gunpoint? This garbage makes SotFS look like masterpiece, the decline is getting worse by the hour.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Complaining about hitboxes in Sekiro tells me you never bothered to learn how to actually play it. All edge aside, if you really do like From games, and you think it's possible for you to lay your prejudices aside, you should give it a proper go sometime.

This video sums up my Sekiro experience perfectly. If you think this hit box is acceptable and you need to "learn how to actually play it" then I don't know what you're smoking but it's strong stuff. Why would I want to play yet another game full of broken hit boxes and high damage when I could play a good game instead?

I was never sure about the placement of the ogre as one of the earliest minibosses you're likely to encounter. Not only does he play less to the strengths of the combat system than most other enemies, especially without prosthetics, he also introduces a mechanic that is almost never seen again later. Apart from oggerman I can honestly only think of two other grab attacks in the entire game that have to be dodged to be avoided, regular enemies notwithstanding.* So if that's what you're worried about, there's no problem.

As for why you should play it, it's one of the best From games. If you have so many better games to play than the best From games, then don't bother I guess.

*Drunkard and shamisen player, for the record. If anyone can think of more you're welcome to correct me.

 

[abija]

Use . and , to play it frame by frame, he dodged late and was under ogre left hand when the animation swaped to confirm grab. Maybe next time link a proper video not some cut up crap reencoded too many times.

Saying that was your sekiro experience falls in the same category with all your other lies.

 

[Multidirectional]

Apart from oggerman I can honestly only think of two other grab attacks in the entire game that have to be dodged to be avoided, regular enemies notwithstanding.*

*Drunkard and shamisen player, for the record. If anyone can think of more you're welcome to correct me.

There are more of course. like the ape, but I never found that to be the issue in Sekiro. Or hitboxes. But then even Dark Souls II hitboxes don't bother me so what do I know.. Still, I would say Sekiro is the most polished FS game when it comes to combat and if that game is "unplayable" then better just stay away from all their games.

 

[Max Damage]

Sekiro has the worst combat flow when it comes to fighting crowds, you either kite or die because From didn't bother fleshing that part out. Which is just lazy considering how this is their release with least amount of combat options, I don't get the hype around Sekiro at all.

 

[Strange Fellow]

There are more of course. like the ape

You don't dodge the ape ones, you jump them. I specifically said grabs that you dodge because those are the ones that are susceptible to mismatches between the animation and the hitboxes like in the video Hell Swarm posted. They do annoy me, because they look wrong. Grab hitboxes should be much smaller, so that they're required to hit centre mass to connect, or else the start of the animation should be smoother. These are action games built on precise movement - if it looks wrong, it is wrong. I hate grab attacks in From games very much.

Sekiro has the worst combat flow when it comes to fighting crowds, you either kite or die because From didn't bother fleshing that part out. Which is just lazy considering how this is their release with least amount of combat options, I don't get the hype around Sekiro at all.

I found that crowd control became much more manageable with wider use of prosthetics, combat arts and ninjutsu. Hell, with the bloodsmoke ninjutsu alone you can take out an entire crowd without anyone even swinging at you once. Sekiro is a game where you're clearly not meant to take on crowds - you're a ninja, you're meant to sneak around and pick people off one by one, or else bypass the regular mooks altogether. But if you build for it, fighting crowds is very possible. It's taking on two or more strong enemies at once that's the real limit.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Sekiro has the worst combat flow when it comes to fighting crowds,

This doesn't happen a lot though, there's most always a way to thin the herd. Combat simply isn't (shouldn't be) the draw for FS games, it's the adventure.

"It's innovation to remove all your options and change how parry works and other wise the game remains near identical"

So how exactly is Sekiro like DS?

 

[Multidirectional]

Crowd combat always kinda sucked to me in FS games though, compared to full combatfag games. Compare fighting crowds in Nioh 2 with any Souls game or Sekiro. FS games don't really seem made for it.

 

[Hell Swarm]

You don't dodge the ape ones, you jump them. I specifically said grabs that you dodge because those are the ones that are susceptible to mismatches between the animation and the hitboxes like in the video Hell Swarm posted. They do annoy me, because they look wrong. Grab hitboxes should be much smaller, so that they're required to hit centre mass to connect, or else the start of the animation should be smoother. These are action games built on precise movement - if it looks wrong, it is wrong. I hate grab attacks in From games very much.

Jumping or rolling isn't relevant. The problem is the player clear dodges, he's half way to the monster's flank and he's still grabbed. It looks shit, it's frustrating and it's broken. What's the appeal of playing yet another From game when they won't fix this issue we've had since Demon's souls? If they can't improve their games why shouldn't I spit on them for being lazy slant eyed faggot with a brain dead fanbase willing to swallow anything with a dodge roll?

So how exactly is Sekiro like DS?

Are we back at "Bloodborne and Sekiro play nothing like a Souls game" again? Because that's not true and it's a boring argument by smooth brained fanboys.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Jumping or rolling isn't relevant.

It is actually, because the window for jumping to avoid attacks is very generous. You would know this if you had played far enough to see them.

What's the appeal of playing yet another From game when they won't fix this issue we've had since Demon's souls? If they can't improve their games why shouldn't I spit on them for being lazy slant eyed faggot with a brain dead fanbase willing to swallow anything with a dodge roll?

I'm not trying to trick you, and this isn't a setup to some elaborate gotcha. If you could like the old From games despite the grab attacks, I'm sure you could do that with Sekiro as well, especially considering that as I said there are only four of them in the entire game. You're complaining that bosses in ER have become too fast and aggressive and the player's options havent been updated to compensate, and that's what Sekiro does. It gives you the tools to deal with the new style of enemies while still being undeniably a From game. It also has a comprehensible story told in a traditional way, and it's free of bloat. It's excellent.

 

[Odoryuk]

This video sums up my Sekiro experience perfectly. If you think this hit box is acceptable and you need to "learn how to actually play it" then I don't know what you're smoking but it's strong stuff. Why would I want to play yet another game full of broken hit boxes and high damage when I could play a good game instead?

If a game has a couple of broken hitboxes (most of which I never enctountered in my hundreds hours of play, even in Dark Souls 2), it doesn't mean it's full of broken hitboxes. There's a difference in a problem that hinders your enjoyment and using some fringe hitboxes as an excuse of your poor play (people always go with bad hitboxes firtst, poor camera second and bad controls third when they're too buttmad). Not that I'm saying there's no bad hitboxes in their games, you can look at all hitboxes in DSAnimStudio, but they are not as frequent as people want to believe

 

[NJClaw]

Hitmontop is easily the worst of the trio. Hell, it might even be one of the worst gen 2 pokemon.

What's the appeal of playing yet another From game when they won't fix this issue we've had since Demon's souls?

I like Elden ring.

 

[Hell Swarm]

I'm not trying to trick you, and this isn't a setup to some elaborate gotcha. If you could like the old From games despite the grab attacks, I'm sure you could do that with Sekiro as well, especially considering that as I said there are only four of them in the entire game. You're complaining that bosses in ER have become too fast and aggressive and the player's options havent been updated to compensate, and that's what Sekiro does. It gives you the tools to deal with the new style of enemies while still being undeniably a From game. It also has a comprehensible story told in a traditional way, and it's free of bloat. It's excellent.

I can tolerate old bad hit boxes because it's not 15 years of them. I'm willing to give From a chance to improve their games and accept the old ones are flawed. I'm not willing to accept it again and again and again. From didn't change anything. I played a good hour of Sekiro and parrying doesn't change the game any more than bloodborne's change in parries changed the game. I went in hoping it would be like Tenchu and it was activision goyslop.

people always go with bad hitboxes firtst, poor camera second and bad controls third when they're too buttmad

Bad hitboxes are bad hitboxes and if I run into the infamous From grab with the first large enemy I meet I'm expecting every other one to be plagued by the same damn thing.

Poor camera is undeniable. No one needs to be looking at a dragon's ballsack the entire fight.

I'd say clunky not bad but I've got years of experience with them. Bad input buffering is my only real complaint and that's a common one.


7 years old and never rang truer.

 

[Odoryuk]

Bad hitboxes are bad hitboxes and if I run into the infamous From grab with the first large enemy I meet I'm expecting every other one to be plagued by the same damn thing.

Hitboxes are being setup in their engine's animation event editor, and most of them are correct and work in favor of the player, but some are rushed and untested, which is a minority of all hitboxes

7 years old and never rang truer.

Is that the "oh I actually want all bosses to be puzzle boses" video of his? It's been years since I have seen his opinionated videos on games he doesn't enjoy anymore

 

[Hell Swarm]

Hitboxes are being setup in their engine's animation event editor, and most of them are correct and work in favor of the player, but some are rushed and untested, which is a minority of all hitboxes

Has it been fixed in a patch? No it hasn't. So From think it's not broken.

Is that the "oh I actually want all bosses to be puzzle boses" video of his? It's been years since I have seen his opinionated videos on games he doesn't enjoy anymore

He never said he wanted all the bosses to be puzzle bosses. He said he wanted some variety and that's value in bosses that aren't hard combat encounters. I've always liked the Demon of song. It's an easy boss but it's a cool boss. The build up to it is one of the hardest areas in the game and then the boss turned out to be a mimic from and isn't that difficult. It's a reverse of Elden ring where the area is easy but the boss is hard. This kind of twist can be refreshing. Similarly I like Smelter demon because it forces a clock on you and you have to be way more careful about health management. I didn't enjoy Dancer at all because it's identical to every other boss in the game. Having 1 or 2 bosses punish the player for rolling instinctively with a delayed attack is fine, but it shouldn't be the default. And if you do want delayed attacks they should be like Mogh where he's slow because of his weapon choice and feels fair.

There's more to From games than circle and R1 and it would be nice if they remembered that.

 

[Odoryuk]

Has it been fixed in a patch? No it hasn't. So From think it's not broken.

They're probably weren't aware of these broken hitboxes when they were working on the games, and then the updates stopped.
With Elden Ring they had more players and more reports, and we already seen some hitboxes being fixed.

He said he wanted some variety and that's value in bosses that aren't hard combat encounters. I've always liked the Demon of song. It's an easy boss but it's a cool boss.

Deacons of the Deep is an easy boss, but it's a cool boss. Folding Screen Monkey is an easy boss, but it's a cool boss. Rykard, Lord of Blasphemy is an easy boss, but it's a cool boss. Lamenter is an easy boss, oh fuck I just got oneshotted

The variety was never compromised

 

[NJClaw]

Deacons of the Deep is an easy boss, but it's a cool boss. Folding Screen Monkey is an easy boss, but it's a cool boss. Rykard, Lord of Blasphemy is an easy boss, but it's a cool boss. Lamenter is an easy boss, oh fuck I just got oneshotted

Wolnir, Curse-Rotted Greatwood, the Divine Dragon, the Mist Noble...

Gimmick/easy bosses only count when they're in the games Mr. "Micolash is my favorite Bloodborne boss" likes.