Europa Universalis IV

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

True, but its still annoying to have some complicated and important mechanic full of hidden modifiers. Trade in EU2 was seriously annoying because of that. Either go all hidden modifiers or show it all in its numerical goodness, half-way is full retardo.

I didn't see the warfare video because I don't like watching ten minutes of jewtube video and some guy talking when I can assimilate the same info in two minutes with ten small paragraphs of text and some images. Check your broadband privilege, Paradox.

So, how is siege playing out? Siege in vanilla EU3 was shit. Plopping 2k guys and a few months to take most fortresses was shit. Also, Constantinople fell too easily in EU3, when it should have endured immense 100k armies for months, with naval superiority possibly extending it for years.

How much time it takes to recruit troops? IMHO I have a feeling EU3 vastly downplayed the time needed to build a ddecent army. It was kinda annoying in EU3 to play a small country and fight a big country, you lost simply because you could't possibly carpet all the enemy provinces in three months. At least EU2 had less provinces. In MMU obliterating the enemy army gave you more or less one year to do your sieging and stuff.

 

[Grinolf]

Nothing super interesting or new, but it's funny hearing him talk about beating the Ottomans as if it's some great feat. Trade routes look more interesting this time around, at least?

It is looking much harder, than in EU3. Byz have much less potential for expansion without fighting the Ottomans. And the Ottomans now in much stronger position and must be more willing about expansion. And Timurids no longer a threat fot them.
Of course, player will find various exploits against AI. And I don't know about Constantinople strait which was the main weapon against them in EU3. Honestly, Paradox should eliminate it, if it still here for some reason.

For trade routes see his last English videos and Russian one. And yes it looks very interesting. It gives a reason for much more sensible expansion contrary to take whatever you can, as in other Paradox games. And it might give a reason not to conquer someone with common trade interest. But I am not sure. that AI knows about that.

So, how is siege playing out? Siege in vanilla EU3 was shit. Plopping 2k guys and a few months to take most fortresses was shit. Also, Constantinople fell too easily in EU3, when it should have endured immense 100k armies for months, with naval superiority possibly extending it for years.

How much time it takes to recruit troops? IMHO I have a feeling EU3 vastly downplayed the time needed to build a ddecent army. It was kinda annoying in EU3 to play a small country and fight a big country, you lost simply because you could't possibly carpet all the enemy provinces in three months. At least EU2 had less provinces. In MMU obliterating the enemy army gave you more or less one year to do your sieging and stuff.

Sieges are the same, as in EU3. So yes it still, destroy enemy army and cover their territory with 2-3k troops. Even if you siege Constantinople, which must be impossible to take without any preparations beforehand.
Recruiment troops also not take much time, but manpower recovery are nerfed, so destroying the enemy army can cripple them completely, and make them easy pray for other countries and rebels. Scotland and Lithuania have some unhealthy tendency for that, from what is shown so far. But at realize, I hope, they would not be that fragile.
And mercenaries must be more useful, if you have the right ideas.

 

[Malakal]

I dont see your point about sieges, surround the fortress and wait long enough and it will surrender or die of hunger. Not very hard. Assaulting them is another point entirely and caused huge losses even in EU3.

Is Constantinople self sufficient? No? Then 2 year siege should be enough, as it was in game.

 

[Grinolf]

Is Constantinople self sufficient? No? Then 2 year siege should be enough, as it was in game.

It can be supplied by water. Mehmed bult a whole fortress to cut Constantinople from the Black Sea. And prepared a strong fleet in the Sea of Marmara, but still wasn't fully successful at blockading the city.
One of the Ottomans ruler was sieged Constantinople 7 years, but abadon it, when his country was attacked from the East.

 

[Borelli]

Without the 1401 (or was it 1411?) start date where Ottoman pretenders control everything west of Constantinopole (a sacred date for all who are planning to fight the Ottomans) Byz future looks grim indeed.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

Better start building vaults between Constantinople, ITZ coming.

But after a playthrough or two everyone with a brain will be able to exploit the AI and restore the empire.

 

[Karmapowered]

[The tutorials in Paradox games are beyond awful.

"Hello sir, I see you've downloaded one of the most complex strategy games available. Now would you like me to tell you how to push a button? Do you know how to read? Well then I guess you're set. Enjoy."

as it should be.

"Educate your mind"

Yeah, RTFM, bunch of cunts newbs, am I rite ?

You sound so very convincing.

 

[Karmapowered]

Paradox games are very easy to get into, there is no need for tutorial.

Do you believe that posting dumb shit makes you any less dumber at the end of the day, or why do you do it ?

 

[Luzur]

[The tutorials in Paradox games are beyond awful.

"Hello sir, I see you've downloaded one of the most complex strategy games available. Now would you like me to tell you how to push a button? Do you know how to read? Well then I guess you're set. Enjoy."

as it should be.

"Educate your mind"

Yeah, RTFM, bunch of cunts newbs, am I rite ?

You sound so very convincing.

i was supposed to post that pic i once posted here, with donald duck reading mein kampf, but i got sidetracked by some hitler manga pics on google so i lost the link, and i am too bored to search for it again.

 

[Emily]

I actually think game is easy to get just by starting and playing a game. But they could include proper tutorial it wouldn't take them much time, and it would help people that like that approach better

 

[Karmapowered]

i was supposed to post that pic i once posted here, with donald duck reading mein kampf, but i got sidetracked by some hitler manga pics on google so i lost the link, and i am too bored to search for it again.

Look no further.

 

[Karmapowered]

I actually think game is easy to get just by starting and playing a game. But they could include proper tutorial it wouldn't take them much time, and it would help people that like that approach better

EU is indeed easy enough to learn by going with the flow of the game.

Generalizing such an observation to all PSD games however only proves that people don't know what they're talking about seems a bit short-sighted to me.

 

[Luzur]

i was supposed to post that pic i once posted here, with donald duck reading mein kampf, but i got sidetracked by some hitler manga pics on google so i lost the link, and i am too bored to search for it again.

Look no further.

well i could make a new meme with ponies reading books, but Donald is funnier.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Does anybody actually bother with tutorials? Usually I just dive into games on whatever is their "hard" difficulty and see if it fucks me up or not/I get frustrated, then I read the manual or look online. Always done it this way, even with Paradox games. If you've played at least some strategy games, a lot of what EU games try to do makes sense.

It's the min/maxing, getting fullest potential, not being too frustrated part where you have to look up stuff. I mean, is there anything inherently "hard" about clicking a recruit icon, building some troops, and moving them somewhere you want to attack/defend? Anyone with half a brain should be able to figure out basic stuff like that within the first five minutes.

I am also not the smartest guy in the room, so it should be fine for most I would think.

 

[Zeriel]

It is absolutely fine, this is just a classic example of "people love to bitch".

 

[oscar]

Paradox games are very easy to get into, there is no need for tutorial.

Do you believe that posting dumb shit makes you any less dumber at the end of the day, or why do you do it ?

I understood Hearts of Iron 2 fairly well at age 13 after about 10 minutes of play. Won the first game as Germany pretty easily.

Sure the finer mechanics and behind-the-scenes might take a little longer to understand but Paradox games are straightforward and easy-to-grasp by turn-based/4X/grand strategy genre standards.

 

[tuluse]

Does anybody actually bother with tutorials? Usually I just dive into games on whatever is their "hard" difficulty and see if it fucks me up or not/I get frustrated, then I read the manual or look online. Always done it this way, even with Paradox games. If you've played at least some strategy games, a lot of what EU games try to do makes sense.

It's the min/maxing, getting fullest potential, not being too frustrated part where you have to look up stuff. I mean, is there anything inherently "hard" about clicking a recruit icon, building some troops, and moving them somewhere you want to attack/defend? Anyone with half a brain should be able to figure out basic stuff like that within the first five minutes.

I am also not the smartest guy in the room, so it should be fine for most I would think.

I couldn't figure why I wasn't getting clerks in Vicky 2. So I fired up the tutorial to see if there was anything basic I was missing. Turns out I already knew how to push buttons and read, so it was no help.

Turned to the wiki and find out there is a minimum literacy to get clerks.

 

[Wise Emperor]

Are there any codex strategy inclined Aussies in Sydney that could attend Pox meeting at 7th August? http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-Australia&s=d0ad77deecd9719b353d346987df841c

 

[Wise Emperor]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ersalis-IV&s=15354918d57414b17b7eb0b301ee522a

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

 

[Delterius]

I understood Hearts of Iron 2 fairly well at age 13 after about 10 minutes of play. Won the first game as Germany pretty easily.

Sure the finer mechanics and behind-the-scenes might take a little longer to understand but Paradox games are straightforward and easy-to-grasp by turn-based/4X/grand strategy genre standards.

I never bothered with HOI, but it sounds like you've picked the pre-nerf EU 3 France and just couldn't go wrong to me.

 

[Karmapowered]

I mean, is there anything inherently "hard" about clicking a recruit icon, building some troops, and moving them somewhere you want to attack/defend? Anyone with half a brain should be able to figure out basic stuff like that within the first five minutes.

If you didn't get the memo, people aren't asking for tutorials about the trivial stuff that you like to babble about (randomly clicking and moving stuff around). It's precisely because PSD only covers the trivial stuff in their tutorials/manuals that people complain. They might as well save their time and not produce them at all.

I remember my C64 simulator/war games coming with a printed manual, of several hundred pages, sometimes even two. That was in 1990. Steel Panther. Operational Art of War. Combat Mission. I've never heard anyone complain about them coming with manuals (and/or tutorial missions). What was wrong with them at that time, that should suddenly be nowadays ?

I understood Hearts of Iron 2 fairly well at age 13 after about 10 minutes of play. Won the first game as Germany pretty easily.

Cool story, bro. I won my first game of chess at 8, against my uncle. Two years later, I played in a club at regional level. What's your point ? Should I also mention that I played piano at Chrismas ? I am not here to compare e-peens with you (like you're the first to bring up that weak counter to make up for the lack of decent manuals in PSD games).

I started playing HoI3 soon after its release (vanilla). I used theater levels effectively when people were still struggling with that concept on the forums, thanks to my prior experience with HoI2 and other war-games. I would have liked to find serious/in-depth info about supply management, air and naval operations, etc., elsewhere than on a Wiki and forums fed and managed by the users of the game. It's easy to win the game against a largely incompetent AI, even if you don't understand half of what you're doing. It's a whole another matter if you go against a human player, or if you wish to be perfectionist like me, and master the intrisics. That's where a good manual from an official source makes a difference, hmm, no, actually becomes essential.

Bottomline is, I am getting sick of Paradox apologists. In a way, they sound no different than people that keep trying to convince me that DA2/Skyrim is good for what it is. If you can deem yourself satisfied by mediocre standards, I will not.

Does PSD make games worth playing ? Yes, definitely, most of them are even unique and brillant in their genre.

Can PSD do better (with how they manage their manuals/tutorials) ? Yes, and they should.

 

[KoolNoodles]

I see what you're saying, but we have the internet now. It is FAR easier to google a problem or check the forums than start up some Pdox tutorial or even leaf through a manual these days. Odds are extremely high that somebody has figured it out before 99% of users. Would I complain if they had a robust tutorial and shipped the game with a manual that explained every detail? No, that would be great, but when that doesn't happen I really can't be bothered about it either, because trial/error and good folks on the internet solve it faster for me.

 

[Spectacle]

Maybe Paradox should simply hire someone to write gameplay wikis instead of leaving it to the fans?

 

[tuluse]

They should have the wiki in game like the Civilopedia.