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Europa Universalis IV

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That said, Ideas only give bonuses, don't it? I don't like it one bit, I liked how you had to make hard choices and swallow when it came to sliders.


I only now remembered, that lied to you. There is one confirmed idea, that gives country a malus. It is unique for Burgundi and helps them dissapear completely from the world map more often. So there can be other ideas, which give not only bonuses, but they most likely be counry specific. Or why would someone ever want to choose something that gives him disadvantages, when there are plenty of other ideas, that don't do it.

ALL ideas should give disadvantages, IMHO. In EU3 ideas were only good, but that made sense because sliders. Now without sliders, Ideas should have both good and bad to stop nations from being good at everything. That's why I liked sliders, you had to swalllow the good and the bad in order to further your goals.

Very artificial to make the Burgundian inheritance inevitable. Was it already a ongoing process by 1440? If not, then they should rather build better mechanics that will make it possible. Why just a Burgundian inheritance? Why not a Polish inheritance? Or a Portuguese Inheritance?

Emergent Gameplay >>> Historical Determinism.

IMHO, Historical Determinism is the gaming equivalent of Corridor Shooters with cinematics.
 

RedScum

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
I think the Death & Taxes mod for EUIII gave the national ideas disadvantages aswell. So if you focused on naval forcelimit your land forcelimit suffered vice versa.
Made some cool choices IMO.
 

Grinolf

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ALL ideas should give disadvantages, IMHO. In EU3 ideas were only good, but that made sense because sliders. Now without sliders, Ideas should have both good and bad to stop nations from being good at everything. That's why I liked sliders, you had to swalllow the good and the bad in order to further your goals.
Ideas weren't particularly good implemented in EU3 also. They were poorly balanced and don't determined your gameplay. Well, exept QftNW, but it was the only case. Like you don't need even single naval idea in order to beat UK. Just build many ships and zerg it. And it isn't yet clear how much current ideas would determine the manner you play the game.
If that problem is solved in the EU4, then lack of direct maluses from picking that particular idea would not matter that much. And main disadvantage from choosing one idea would be inability choose some another idea in its place. MM was tried to do something in that line, and some of their plans looked very interesting.
Very artificial to make the Burgundian inheritance inevitable. Was it already a ongoing process by 1440?
It isn't inevitable.
For all of Burgundy’s power, the ducal house had trouble producing legitimate heirs in the direct line. John the Fearless had a single son among his five children; Philip the Good had one legitimate son and two bastard; and then Charles the Bold died in battle with a sole daughter to his name. The mess of inheritance laws and dynastic politics ended with France seizing the true Duchy lands in France and the Low Countries passing to the Habsburg line as Charles’ daughter Mary took an Austrian groom.

In Europa Universalis IV, an AI controlled Burgundy may find itself with no legitimate heir. If this happens because of a regency or battle death before 1500, then Burgundy will be divided between France and the Holy Roman Emperor. (If the Emperor is weak, then those lands will go to a neighboring country that had a royal marriage with Burgundy.)
and
Burgundian National Ideas
Burgundy starts with a 25% reduction on maintenance of mercenaries and a 33% penalty on the chance of getting an heir. This is a negative national idea, but it helps to trigger the AI event chain that gets Habsburgs into Holland.

It is not yet clear, how likely it would happen. And they have some sort of justification. But I don't understand, what they implied: tough luck of burgundian dukes or that something wasn't right with Valois bloodline.
If not, then they should rather build better mechanics that will make it possible. Why just a Burgundian inheritance? Why not a Polish inheritance? Or a Portuguese Inheritance?
Well, there are some jokes, that final idea for Poland would be patritions, but they already getting old.
Why Burgundy? Because it was very important and shaped Western Europe to what we see today. Even Burgundy in MMtM wasn't that different. And it was multiple times claimed, that Burgundian Inheritance was the only historical deterministic event they find themselfs in need to keep for MMtG.
But for my opinion, Paradox with EU4 trying too hard to keep pleased all two (or even three) camps. And most likely end up pleasing no one. For ones it would be too sandboxy, for others too deterministic.
Best variant, again in my opinion, would be make separate setting for each important but unlikely to happen historical event at the game start. Like that case with Burgundy or Prussian formation. And your setting choise will determine how much the game will try to help this events to occur in your playthrough.
 

Grinolf

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Yes, it is as much miserable as it was expected. If not even more. But on positive side, official forum now revive and return to old good paradox bashing. After last two months of boredom it is definitely an improvement.
 

Zeriel

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Didn't realize they had integrated the advisors-doing-stuff elements from CK2, that's pretty neat. Looks like EU4 is kind of just a replacement for both CK and EU.
 

Malakal

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That is not viral its normal mouth to mouth.

Isn't that the definition viral marketing???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_marketing

Well the generic and wide definition not withstanding I equate viral marketing with employees posting on forums/fb/other shit like that pretending to be normal customers praising the product. Mouth to mouth is when normal people recommend something they genuinely like. At least thats the definition for me.
 

Grinolf

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Didn't realize they had integrated the advisors-doing-stuff elements from CK2, that's pretty neat. Looks like EU4 is kind of just a replacement for both CK and EU.
I don't think you can call it a replacement for CK2 because of this. It is pretty logical step to eliminating unnecessary micromanagement. But it is still big question, how much moddable would be these envoys compared to envoys from EU3. And it isn't single instance, when it looked like that EU4 will be less moddable than EU3. But I am hope, that they give modders some new tools in exchange of removed ones.

What is really bad, that they not integrated siege improvements frim HOD, so we can still see old nonsensical carpet as main war tactic. And most of other military stuff from EU3 are still here also.
 

Spectacle

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Well the generic and wide definition not withstanding I equate viral marketing with employees posting on forums/fb/other shit like that pretending to be normal customers praising the product. .
That's called "astroturfing".
Paradox's current campaign is pretty much a textbook example of viral marketing.
 

Zeriel

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Didn't realize they had integrated the advisors-doing-stuff elements from CK2, that's pretty neat. Looks like EU4 is kind of just a replacement for both CK and EU.
I don't think you can call it a replacement for CK2 because of this. It is pretty logical step to eliminating unnecessary micromanagement. But it is still big question, how much moddable would be these envoys compared to envoys from EU3. And it isn't single instance, when it looked like that EU4 will be less moddable than EU3. But I am hope, that they give modders some new tools in exchange of removed ones.

What is really bad, that they not integrated siege improvements frim HOD, so we can still see old nonsensical carpet as main war tactic. And most of other military stuff from EU3 are still here also.

Best part of CK2 to me. I really don't like the "fight yourself!" gameplay that is 99% of the difference between EU and CK. EU3 with CK2 advisor elements is ten times better than CK2 in my opinion.
 

Syril

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EU is the best Pdox game because it's the original idea that started it all. CK Vicky HoI are just spinoffs with different mechanics which were created to generate moneys. I should have waited for EU 4 instead of buying CK2 and Vicky 2 . Damn you paradox.
 

Malakal

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What is really bad, that they not integrated siege improvements frim HOD, so we can still see old nonsensical carpet as main war tactic. And most of other military stuff from EU3 are still here also.

Could you explain why splitting your army to besiege many fortresses is nonsensical? I am fairly sure it was a common occurrence during wars.
 
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EU is the best Pdox game because it's the original idea that started it all. CK Vicky HoI are just spinoffs with different mechanics which were created to generate moneys. I should have waited for EU 4 instead of buying CK2 and Vicky 2 . Damn you paradox.


Try as I may I cannot make sense out of this.
 

Grinolf

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Could you explain why splitting your army to besiege many fortresses is nonsensical? I am fairly sure it was a common occurrence during wars.

You mean, that it was common occurrence, when one country destroyed all his enemy forces, it sent all her army to cover enemy terriitory (no matter how big this terriitory is) with thin layer of soldiers, who sieged all they can find? Ant all it happened after first months of war?
I am no expert in early modern warfare, but I for some reason thought, that scattering your army on such small groups and having untaken fortresses in your rear - things, that must be avoided.

And in HOD you can still siege multiple fortresses. But you need enough soldiers with right composition to be effective at it. And you would suffer from attrition in any case, not only if your enemy have full defensive ideas, like in EU4. Also you can effective siege fortess in the middle of enemy territory, but who sayed, that HOD was ideal?
EU is the best Pdox game because it's the original idea that started it all. CK Vicky HoI are just spinoffs with different mechanics which were created to generate moneys. I should have waited for EU 4 instead of buying CK2 and Vicky 2 . Damn you paradox.
Yes. Goddammit, yes. And it doesn't matter, that Vic is on of the most ambitious grand strategy series ever created, and vanilla EU until now was simple map painter simulator with inane warfare.
I am bow before such genious insight in essense of all Paradox games.
 
Self-Ejected

Cosmic Misogynerd

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Codex 2013 Divinity: Original Sin

Yes, it is as much miserable as it was expected. If not even more. But on positive side, official forum now revive and return to old good paradox bashing. After last two months of boredom it is definitely an improvement.

Wait a minute, why is the Zapotec territory so big and why is the Mixtec considered part of it?
 

Grinolf

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Wait a minute, why is the Zapotec territory so big and why is the Mixtec considered part of it?
Because Paradox didn't spend any single minute on improving american countries while working on EU4. So the only thing they have - exciting gameplay, in which you conquer your neighbour in one year and then doing nothing, while waiting europeans to show up, and suffering from arbitrary penalties during all that time. Well, with new start date time of waiting decreased, so that can be counted as improvement.
But to be fair, Paradox didn't promise anything for native american in EU4. The still could use political setup from one of the many EU3 mods though. It wouldn't be that time consuming.
Next video showed more serious Paradox fuck up:

Best moment on 15 minute. That guy start reading factions description, but can't make sence from Temple one. So the fact, that one of china's faction completely ahistorical wasn't fixed also. And China is claimed Tier 1 nation, on which they concentrated most of their attention.
 

Zeriel

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I think that's more of a disconnect between game mechanics presented in a simple, straight-forward manner and the historical basis, not that they don't understand the historical basis.

I'm more bummed that they didn't fix the GOLD GOLD GOLD aspect of the New World unless there's something stopping colonization that I'm not aware of.

You know something's seriously wrong when even a faction like Byzantium, which is both historically not a colonial power, and in terms of game mechanics and distance shouldn't be going to the New World, still feels like it should dash for the New World just to snatch up an 1800 income CoT with zero effort.
 

Grinolf

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I think that's more of a disconnect between game mechanics presented in a simple, straight-forward manner and the historical basis, not that they don't understand the historical basis.

Problem with native americans, that they are done very bad and from historical and from gameplay perspectives. So in the end and those, who wanted some crazy alternative history, where Aztec kicked european asses, and those, who wanted better representation of that region, left pissed off. So content only eurocentrists, who treat New World nation only as something existing only to be conquered, and don't care much about the fact, that they conquer something very different from what real europeans do.

And it isn't big change to switch Temple to more sensible variant, like aristocrats or something like that. They only need to rewrite most of the faction events. So Paradox not taking tough decisions, but just been lazy.
Atleast they fixed Japan, so the game now represent correct period of their history. But I still don't understand about what the thinking, when they created Japan for Divine Wind.
 

Emily

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Am i wrong or does it seems like it will be easy to blob up horribly. I see that guy that plays England basically managed to take out France very early on, and if he wasn't larping he could annex it : S
 
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It's not like EU3 was hard once you reached the size the England pretty much starts at. In fact England has a mission in EU3 that gives them cores on the northern half of France and Burgundy.
 

Grinolf

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Am i wrong or does it seems like it will be easy to blob up horribly. I see that guy that plays England basically managed to take out France very early on, and if he wasn't larping he could annex it : S
Both his natural enemies basically destroy themselfevs. Scotland by exhausting it's manpower in the very first war and falling in constant rebel circle. France by exhausting themselfs again, alienating all other powers by their expansion (they even manage to become dishonorable scum as can be seen in casus belli list) and not establishing worthwile alliances.
And if he taked more provinces, he would allienate his own allies, who win the war for him.
But main tactics, as it seems, would be not wasting ypur manpower and waiting, when enemy waste his in some stupid war. And AI can't no go in stupid wars. Then they would be done.
More funny, that Hundred Years War must be about trying to attract Burgundy on your side, but both player and Franse preffered fighting on two fronts simultaneously.
 

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