Europa Universalis IV

[Zeriel]

Has to be mentioned that "historical plausibility" and "gameplay efficiency" are basically complete opposites. In real life, people constantly make mistakes and dumb decisions, especially when it comes to war. When people make perfect decisions (or even just not-completely-boneheaded ones) things like the Roman Empire and golden ages result. So it's only natural a player always making right decisions will create scenarios that seem historically impossible.

 

[Grinolf]

Looks pretty good so far. But I really didn't like that HRE states. It seems, that expansion inside there is even easier than in EU3, since so many states manage to eat their
neighbours. But I hope, that mods are fix it somehow.

And Paradox claimed, that it was older version of the game and AI was improved since then. So I hope, that AI would more prioritize conquering key provinces, like Constantinople and Novgorod, in release state.

Of course it is only Europe, so it isn't know how many crazy things happened in the rest of the World yet.

 

[Zeriel]

The northeastern hordeland above Ottomans/Byzantium looks a lot different than I remember from EU3. Is that actual changes, or just different starting date? (Never played any 1450 start date in EU3.)

Also, wow, what the fuck. They really babied Byzantium again. Wish they'd make it actually difficult for once.

 

[Grinolf]

The northeastern hordeland above Ottomans/Byzantium looks a lot different than I remember from EU3. Is that actual changes, or just different starting date? (Never played any 1450 start date in EU3.)

Golden Horde collapsed between EU3 and EU4 start date. Not unimportant role in that event played some unknown guy named Timur, who razed their capital. They still had some power for the next 30 years after EU4 start date and there must be also Astrakhan Khanate, which revolted in 1460es. It has separate tag in EU3, but I never seen it appeared not in vanilla not in mods.

 

[Zeriel]

Does Golden Horde actually recede naturally if you play through from 1399 start date in EU3, or is that just one of those things they automagically make happen with start dates that won't happen otherwise? Never seen them disappear so thoroughly in my playthroughs, but maybe that is down to me demolishing Timurids.

 

[Grinolf]

Does Golden Horde actually recede naturally if you play through from 1399 start date in EU3, or is that just one of those things they automagically make happen with start dates that won't happen otherwise? Never seen them disappear so thoroughly in my playthroughs, but maybe that is down to me demolishing Timurids.

I didn't see any Timurid-Golden Horde wars even despite them been classified by the game as rivals.
Golden Horde in vanilla EU3 had a tendency be eaten by Austria/Bohemia (depending on who Emperor are), than gradually desintegrate. And because of craziness of EU3 rebel mechanic, all rebel states poped up completely out of place.
Mods usually done things much better, so you can see Crimea, Kazan, Nogai and Kazakh Khanates rebel successfully and mostly in right places. Never Astrakhan Khanate though, since it very close to their core territory, and they are pretty stable there.

 

[Malakal]

Poland seems to be extremely strong now, with a mix of military and administration ideas. Soon it will be time to create the Jagiellon empire again.

 

[Whisky]

Oh wow, France got absolutely wrecked. The times they are a changin'.

And Mighty Georgia actually expanded. Wow.

 

[Zeriel]

Does Golden Horde actually recede naturally if you play through from 1399 start date in EU3, or is that just one of those things they automagically make happen with start dates that won't happen otherwise? Never seen them disappear so thoroughly in my playthroughs, but maybe that is down to me demolishing Timurids.

I didn't see any Timurid-Golden Horde wars even despite them been classified by the game as rivals.
Golden Horde in vanilla EU3 had a tendency be eaten by Austria/Bohemia (depending on who Emperor are), than gradually desintegrate. And because of craziness of EU3 rebel mechanic, all rebel states poped up completely out of place.
Mods usually done things much better, so you can see Crimea, Kazan, Nogai and Kazakh Khanates rebel successfully and mostly in right places. Never Astrakhan Khanate though, since it very close to their core territory, and they are pretty stable there.

That reminds me that I constantly saw Golden Horde & Timurids being allied in my playthroughs as Byzantium. So much for being rivals!

 

[Grinolf]

That reminds me that I constantly saw Golden Horde & Timurids being allied in my playthroughs as Byzantium. So much for being rivals!

To be fair, EU3 horde mechanic is so retarded, that such movie was beneficial for both sides. It was the only means for them to have a calm border. And that border was with the only guy, who have no less troops than them. They are really have no reason to fight with each other.
Horde AI also wasn't smart enough to not conquer stuff, but instead make some vassals, which they do IRL.
Well, not suprising, that Paradox abadon horde mechanic in EU4 instead of fixing it.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

Those borders are fucking horrible.

So much for historical bonuses. Also, Ottomans didn't take Constantinople until 1600s, what the actual fuck?

 

[Malakal]

Those borders are fucking horrible.

So much for historical bonuses. Also, Ottomans didn't take Constantinople until 1600s, what the actual fuck?

What? Those borders, compared to EU3, are amazing and make perfect sense. Remember the Austria/Bohemia snake into Asia? Remember random english provinces in Finland? Nowhere in sight. You get contiguous kingdoms with viable borders.

Also IRL look up Charles V empire or Poland in the XV century.

 

[Zeriel]

Holy fuck.

Even to someone interested in grand strategy games and the freedom of playing in an incredibly detailed historical sandbox, EU can feel alienating. You often just don't know if what you're doing is helping your nation or hurting it. There are wikis written by fans of the series to dissect the best strategies and trial-and-error experimentation is possible, but simple effective moves should be apparent from playing the game, not reading Gamefaqs. I sat down with Paradox Development Studios last week to get my hands on the upcoming Europa Universalis 4 and asked them point blank how they intended to elevate the series beyond its loyal but modest audience.

Get opportunity to talk to developer of game. Ask developer of game how they're planning to ruin the game, because thinking is so last century. I just... I can't do this anymore. We're doomed. IT'S ALL OVER. WE'RE FUCKED, if this is how human beings do things.

 

[Grinolf]

Get opportunity to talk to developer of game. Ask developer of game how they're planning to ruin the game, because thinking is so last century. I just... I can't do this anymore. We're doomed. IT'S ALL OVER. WE'RE FUCKED, if this is how human beings do things.

He could make a point about Paradox never having normal tutorial in their games. And fan made guids been superior to official ones. And he will be right.
But he choose the path of retardation, so it is no more hope for this pour soul.

 

[Zeriel]

It's just the whole approach of, "The game is too hard for me, therefore the problem HAS to be the game, not me" that blows my mind. Not an ounce of self-reflection, not the tiniest sliver of doubt.

 

[RedScum]

Some changes from EUIII.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

Those borders are fucking horrible.

So much for historical bonuses. Also, Ottomans didn't take Constantinople until 1600s, what the actual fuck?

What? Those borders, compared to EU3, are amazing and make perfect sense. Remember the Austria/Bohemia snake into Asia? Remember random english provinces in Finland? Nowhere in sight. You get contiguous kingdoms with viable borders.

Also IRL look up Charles V empire or Poland in the XV century.

Can't, just watching Crimea blob and western europe become a mess of colors makes me sick.

 

[Grinolf]

It's just the whole approach of, "The game is too hard for me, therefore the problem HAS to be the game, not me" that blows my mind. Not an ounce of self-reflection, not the tiniest sliver of doubt.

Meanwhille on official forum people are discussing new trade mechanic based only on things, which were showed in LP videos. And it seems, they more or less figured how it's works.

 

[tuluse]

Get opportunity to talk to developer of game. Ask developer of game how they're planning to ruin the game, because thinking is so last century. I just... I can't do this anymore. We're doomed. IT'S ALL OVER. WE'RE FUCKED, if this is how human beings do things.

He could make a point about Paradox never having normal tutorial in their games. And fan made guids been superior to official ones. And he will be right.
But he choose the path of retardation, so it is no more hope for this pour soul.

The tutorials in Paradox games are beyond awful.

"Hello sir, I see you've downloaded one of the most complex strategy games available. Now would you like me to tell you how to push a button? Do you know how to read? Well then I guess you're set. Enjoy."

 

[Jarpie]

Get opportunity to talk to developer of game. Ask developer of game how they're planning to ruin the game, because thinking is so last century. I just... I can't do this anymore. We're doomed. IT'S ALL OVER. WE'RE FUCKED, if this is how human beings do things.

He could make a point about Paradox never having normal tutorial in their games. And fan made guids been superior to official ones. And he will be right.
But he choose the path of retardation, so it is no more hope for this pour soul.

The tutorials in Paradox games are beyond awful.

"Hello sir, I see you've downloaded one of the most complex strategy games available. Now would you like me to tell you how to push a button? Do you know how to read? Well then I guess you're set. Enjoy."

"Press a button, and something awesome happens!", even Bioware people knows this.

 

[Konjad]

Get opportunity to talk to developer of game. Ask developer of game how they're planning to ruin the game, because thinking is so last century. I just... I can't do this anymore. We're doomed. IT'S ALL OVER. WE'RE FUCKED, if this is how human beings do things.

He could make a point about Paradox never having normal tutorial in their games. And fan made guids been superior to official ones. And he will be right.
But he choose the path of retardation, so it is no more hope for this pour soul.

The tutorials in Paradox games are beyond awful.

"Hello sir, I see you've downloaded one of the most complex strategy games available. Now would you like me to tell you how to push a button? Do you know how to read? Well then I guess you're set. Enjoy."

"Press a button, and something awesome happens!", even Bioware people knows this.

Paradox games are very easy to get into, there is no need for tutorial. I mean, what do you need, a half an hour to an hour to learn all the basics if yoy play Paradox game for the first time (and up to 15 minutes if not)? It's not a Dwarf Fortress that needs about 5 hours to show the player how it works.

 

[Grinolf]

Paradox games are very easy to get into, there is no need for tutorial. I mean, what do you need, a half an hour to an hour to learn all the basics if yoy play Paradox game for the first time (and up to 15 minutes if not)? It's not a Dwarf Fortress that needs about 5 hours to show the player how it works.

Yes you could. I remember doing ok in my fiirst run of EU without reading any information about it. Even conquered bunch of stuff. But I played as France, and you can't do anything wrong with it. CK also doesn't really need a tutorial. But with Vic or HOI it wouldn't be that comfortable anymore. You have too mane stuff to worry from the begining, and you need atleast know the basis of the game.
And simly have informative tutorial is some sort of professional etiquette, even if no one ever use it.

 

[Luzur]

Get opportunity to talk to developer of game. Ask developer of game how they're planning to ruin the game, because thinking is so last century. I just... I can't do this anymore. We're doomed. IT'S ALL OVER. WE'RE FUCKED, if this is how human beings do things.

He could make a point about Paradox never having normal tutorial in their games. And fan made guids been superior to official ones. And he will be right.
But he choose the path of retardation, so it is no more hope for this pour soul.

The tutorials in Paradox games are beyond awful.

"Hello sir, I see you've downloaded one of the most complex strategy games available. Now would you like me to tell you how to push a button? Do you know how to read? Well then I guess you're set. Enjoy."

as it should be.

"Educate your mind"

 

[Zeriel]

Not sure if this was posted yet, but...



Nothing super interesting or new, but it's funny hearing him talk about beating the Ottomans as if it's some great feat. Trade routes look more interesting this time around, at least?

 

[Space Satan]

Paradox games had this awful thing about hidden modifiers. Sometimes people figure them after spending a year or even two playing the game.

 

[hakuroshi]

Hidden modifiers are not necessary a bad thing as long as knowledge of them is not mandatory to play game well. They could be used for simulationist gameplay, when you play history instead of elaborate game of chess. You should be able to see the effects, but would not know exact numbers which is fine.