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Europa Universalis IV

MoLAoS

Guest
Well, 220 provinces on the province map and the main continent and inland seas drawn. Takes me about 5 minutes to do 20 provinces since obsessive attention to historical detail is irrelevant in an alt history map. 250 provinces an hour puts me about 7 hours from 2000 provinces drawn on the map. I can only imagine how horrible actually making the province files will be. And all those countries. 4000 provinces - 400 - 100 - 100 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 covers the giant central nation plus the 2 empire remnants plus the major states that split from those remnants and is only 1000 provinces covered by 11 nations. So I'll have at least another 189 nations on the main continent alone. Not to mention the no longer extant nations so you can split off vassals and shit.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
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Huge Dev diary
Eu4 - Art of War - Development Diary 1 - Fleets, Autonomy & India
Welcome to the first development diary for Art of War, the third major expansion for Europa Universalis IV. To start off, we’ll focus on how the expansion will change you naval management, and get into some detail about the new concept of “local autonomy”.

We’re also happy to announce that we are adding a lot of new nations and provinces to the the game, mostly to make sure that the rest of the world gets the same attention to historical detail that we’ve spent on making Europe look right. But don’t worry; we are making sure that the game runs as quick as it does in the version you have now. Today, we will talk about the changes coming to India.

Upgrading Fleets
Building a fleet is a lot of fun, but can sometimes feel like a chore, especially when you have 30 Early Carracks and everyone else is cruising around in the latest two-decker technology. In Art of War, we are aiming to make it easier to keep you fleets up to date. The fleet menu now has a button that allows you upgrade the entire fleet to more modern ships of the same type.

How much will this shiny new option cost? The same amount of money as building a new fleet in that location would, and putting each ship at 0% strength for a while. This is best used as a peacetime action in a province that is dedicated to building ships (to keep the cost down.) This is not a strictly historical idea, of course; it’s easier to give an infantryman new weapons than it is to refit a warship. But we want to ease some of the micromanagement of navies that we thought took away from the more enjoyable parts of the game.

Mothballing Fleets
If you have been playing the game for a while, you will notice a lack of fine control over your fleets. Your main warfleet is expensive and not always needed, whereas your trade fleet and pirate hunters are usually indispensable. As it stands now, your only funding choices are all or nothing; to keep your frigates and merchantmen at full power you need to have your ships-of-the-line sucking cash, too.

No longer.

Each individual fleet can be now be mothballed (or not) while at port. While mothballed, they lose 5% strength each month, down to 25% minimum. They do not repair while mothballed, nor can they move out of port. A mothballed fleet always costs as if the maintenance slider is at 0. At any point in time, you can always toggle a fleet back from its mothball status, but, if they have been mothballed for a while, it will take quite some time until they are fully repaired.

Local Autonomy
Each province now has a variable called “local autonomy”, which ranges from 0 to 100%. This represents how freely the province operates from central authority; i.e., how much direct control you have over what is happening there. This is an inverse value, so the higher it is, the worse it generally is for you income wise, but the population will be happier. If a province’s local autonomy is at 100%, it basically provide nothing valuable to the owner of the the province, economically speaking. Mind you, fewer rebellions could be of economic value in the short term.

Specifcally, Local Autonomy will have an effect on your trade power, tax income, production, manpower, missionary work and recruitment/shipbuilding times. It is something that you will need to pay attention to from time to time, especially in those provinces that are the centers of your wealth and manpower.

Every 30 years, you can directly increase or decrease the autonomy of a province. Increasing it will give the province -10 unrest or 30 years, and adding +25% autonomy. Decreasing local autonomy adds 10 unrest and removes 25% autonomy. (What is unrest, you may ask? It’s a replacement for revolt risk, but we’ll talk about that in more detail next week!)

If you are at peace, autonomy decreases by about 1 point per year, with more advanced forms of governments decreasing it far more quickly. An occupied province slowly increases its autonomy by 1 per year, so long bitter wars are not entirely ideal, even if you may recover your lands.

Conquering a non-core province adds +50% autonomy to that province, while having a claim reduces the impact to 40%. It will take time to establish a firm foothold on newly taken lands.

Local autonomy lets us change some things in the main game to avoid some weirdness. For example, we removed the overseas penalties, and instead an overseas province can never be below 50% autonomy. This, we think, captures the economic problems of managing large overseas empires better than a penalty based on map location, which did not always make sense.

Also, the Ming have been changed a fair bit as well. Its government penalties have been reduced (they weren’t much fun to fight against and forced certain strategies), but instead the Celestial Empire means that a province can never be below 50% autonomy. And hordes can never reduce autonomy below 25%. These changes, we think, enhance the historical flavor.

attachment.php


India
Now I give the word over to Trin Tragula, who was the main man behind the changes in India.

As it stands now, India in EU4 has 77 provinces. These had mostly been drawn to facilitate the many border changes that took place between 1444 and 1820. They were a convenience more than anything else.

After the overhaul in Art of War, India is made up of 153 provinces. This has added a considerable level of detail to the subcontinent and, much like in Europe, you'll now see a higher province density in richer areas especially. The Indian tax and manpower base has also been boosted a bit to compensate for the added amount of provinces.
As you can imagine, this means both that there is a whole lot more to do for the tags in the area themselves and there can be more historical competition for the ports of the region. It also means the region is more differentiated. You can more clearly tell which areas are rich and which are poor. Along the way some changes have been made to the general setup as well as some new additions in the form of tags, cultures, etc.

Easiest way to see the changes is probably a tour of the new map region by region. So here's a short overview of the area and what's going on in 1444:

Delhi and Jaunpur, the Indo-Gangetic Plain:

attachment.php


The Indo-Gangetic plain is really the heart of northern India. This is one of the most densely populated regions in the world and was the centre of all the great northern Empires of India.
Apart from dividing up the plain itself into many provinces due to its high population, the overhaul has allowed us to pay better attention to the various minor states that border it here and there.

Overview of the area in 1444:
Once the overlord of all Muslim Indian states, the Sultanate of Delhi is crumbling in 1444. While the last ruler of the Sayid dynasty is hiding in his palace, the neighboring state of Jaunpur, itself a former possession of the Sultanate under its last dynasty, has advanced up the Ganges and now borders the city itself in the east.
In the west a local Afghan strongman named Bahlul Lodi is massing an army to march on the capital* after having made a base for himself in the Punjab.

New Tags:
  • Patiala, a minor western Punjabi state that, much like Punjab itself, is a revolter in 1444.
  • Baghelkhand: Minor kingdom at the border of the northern plains and the tribal hills to the south.
  • Rohilkhand: A state founded by Afghan military colonists in the traditionally unruly Katehar hills in the north. Historically this small state would take an active part in carving up the lands of the Mughal Empire once it crumbled.
  • Garhwal: A minor Rajput kingdom on the slopes of the Himalayas. Fiercely independent, one of its queens earned her nickname from taking of the noses of would be invaders.


*Historically Bahlul Lodhi was content to make the last of the Sayids his puppet for a while. Then he attacked again and took the throne for himself. He then proceeded to reinvigorate the Sultanate and reclaim much of what was once lost.

Bengal, Bihar and Assam:
attachment.php

The eastern parts of the Ganges and its delta are much like the central region: a highly populated and rich area both in terms of agriculture and trade. Controlling this territory is, therefore, essential for any great northern Indian empire. Over the centuries, however, it proved to be harder than holding on to the rich central areas of the river plain.

In 1444 this region is dominated by the Bengal Sultanate under the Ilyas Shahis, while, in the northeast, the Ahom kingdom of Assam is slowly expanding in the Brahmaputra valley, annexing and integrating the various kingdoms and tribal populations in the area through its process of Ahomization.

New Tags:
  • Sadiya: Along with the Kachari kingdom this is the last remains of the older culture of the area before the arrival of the Ahoms.
  • Tirhut: Northern Bihar is still under Hindu rule in 1444 and continued to thrive for another 100 years before succumbing to the Muslim states that surround it.
  • Manipur: At a crossroad between India and Burma lies the valley kingdom of Manipur. In 1444 this is still an animist state and will remain so until the 18th century when Hinduism is promoted by royal decree.
  • Tripura: Another small kingdom in the mountains separating India and Burma.

Rajputana, Gujarat, Sindh and Malwa:
attachment.php

Notoriously divided and prone to conflict, the region of Rajputana is now a region of larger minor states rather than just a few one-province minors (amazing what you can do with more province!). The richer areas of Gujarat and Malwa are now more divided and Malwa has also gotten a culture of its own to distinguish it from the Rajput provinces to its north.
In 1444 the kingdom of Mewar is the dominant power in Rajputana, despite being surrounded by vengeful Sultanates to its east, west and south however the kingdom is focused on the neighboring state of Marwar. A period of joint rule and very close cooperation has just ended very badly between the two states with intrigues, murder and treason leading to the total annexation of Marwar as retribution. As the game starts the claimant to the Marwari throne is roaming the countryside with the remains of his army*.

New Tags:
  • Nagaur: While the Muslim kingdoms in India are generally the dominant ones Nagaur is the exception. This small Sultanate lies precariously surrounded on all sides by Hindu Rajput states, ruling only a swath of desert.
  • Hadoti: The Hadoti region is home to the kingdoms of Kota and Bundi, a vassal of the dominant Mewar state in 1444.
  • Rewa Kantha: Small kingdom in the hills between Malwa and Gujarat based around the great fortress of Champaner.

*And would continue to do so for several years until he managed to retake the area. Relations between the two states would take a very long time to recover and for much of the history of Rajputana they are to be considered the main rival powers of the region.

Central Indic Tribal Region:
attachment.php

The region between Malwa and the eastern coast is characterized by hills, jungles and many tribal kingdoms. It was quite possibly one of the most abstracted regions in the pre-AoW map, and, while it hasn't received as many provinces as some other parts of India (due to being both poor and relatively lightly populated), care has been taken to make it a bit different from the other Indian regions.

The states in this part of India all use a new government type called Tribal Kingdom (which is a less expansion-oriented form of tribal government). New cultures have been added to better cover the diversity in the region and they also get a new National Idea group relating to tribal religion and customs.

New Tags:
  • Chanda: Small Gond kingdom east of Bastar.
  • Jharkhand: A tag that represents the many minor states in the jungles south of Bihar such as the Nagas of Kokrah or the Raksels of Surguja.

Deccan:
attachment.php

In 1444 the Deccan is defined by the tripartite struggle between Orissa, the Bahmani Sultanate and the Vijayanagara empire.

As the game starts the Gajapatis of Orissa have just managed to expand deep into Vijayanagara territory and entrenched themselves there. Nonetheless, the Orissan state itself is by far the weakest of the three and the areas they now hold in this region are a long way from the Orissan power base in north-eastern India.

Dependent on the arrival of outside goods and immigration, the cosmopolitan Bahmani state is desperate to regain the coastal areas it lost to Viyanagar some 60 years before.While large and seemingly stable the Vijayanagara empire has grown a lot over the last 80 years and straddles a diverse area of cultures, terrains and climates.

New Tags:
  • Baglana: Small Rajput kingdom at the border of Gujarat, Malwa and Bahmani. Tried to play its neighbors against each other but was more often than not the vassal of one (or two) of its neighbors.
  • Habsan: Small naval oriented state created by freed Muslim Ethiopian slaves. Its capital is the impregnable island fortress of Janjira.


Southern India:
attachment.php

Covered almost entirely by the Vijayanagara empire on this picture, the southern part of India is far more diverse in itself than the northern regions above. The dry Telugu and Kannada uplands that are the base of recruitment for the Vijayanagara state are actually a comparatively small part of the empire by now. Having lost its eastern ports to Orissa the main source of income for the empire is instead the lush Tamil region in the far south.

When revising the provinces in this region, one of our goals was been to create a sensible setup not only for Vijayanagara, but also for its various regional revolter states that can appear here. The southern coast is also a very rich region and one that consequently drew the most attention of the European imperial powers, almost all of home had a settlement or factory in the region.

In game terms, the main difference in the political setup in 1444 from before AoW is that we now have an independent state in Mysore under the Ummatur chiefs and the inclusion of the obscure last remains of the ancient Pandya dynasty clinging on in Tirunelvelli in the extreme south of India.

New Tags:
  • Jaffna: Small Tamil kingdom on the northern part of Sri Lanka under Vijayanagara protection.

Himalayas:
attachment.php


Last but not least there have been changes to the Himalayas too. The old Kashmir province was huge, and has now been broken up into some more provinces. The new tag of Ladakh (often refered to as "Little Tibet") has been added and it starts out controlling Ladakh and Baltistan in the north where India borders the Tarim basin, Afghanistan and Tibet.

Trade Flow:
attachment.php

With this many new provinces a new trade node setup was more or less necessary in itself. The new setup has the added benefit of portraying the trade links of the subcontinent a lot better than the old one did. The Indian interior (the Doab node here) nicely incorporates the grand trunk road into the game, while the southern coasts are divided into the historical zones of competition for more distant traders.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,591
Pretty sure it will be limited to that, there must be some room left for further DLCs, asia, nomads . Even in america dlc aztec and inca were completely forgotten with no hope for success while natives could instant tech jumps.

Also its worth checking that fantasy mod , must be real fun in multiplayer:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=298668691&searchtext=


Add mythical continents to the map, events, religions and stuff.
 

KoolNoodles

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
3,545
I really hope they do a South American DLC, or one that includes an overhaul. Though we don't know as much as we'd like about Pre-European times, the history is still pretty rich. Even the inevitable Spanish(or colonial) conquests could be expanded upon by leveraging civil wars, making allying some portion of the natives a prerequisite to fast conquest, maybe by implementing an auxiliary recruitment/mercenary system. They could give the Inca a guerrilla warfare element if conquered, like in Hearts of Iron, etc.

Eh, won't happen though.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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I'm more surprised actually that India gets so much DLC work before the ones that would seem more obvious in terms of "how to sell shit", Japan and China.
 

Tytus

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I really hope they do a South American DLC, or one that includes an overhaul. Though we don't know as much as we'd like about Pre-European times, the history is still pretty rich. Even the inevitable Spanish(or colonial) conquests could be expanded upon by leveraging civil wars, making allying some portion of the natives a prerequisite to fast conquest, maybe by implementing an auxiliary recruitment/mercenary system. They could give the Inca a guerrilla warfare element if conquered, like in Hearts of Iron, etc.

Eh, won't happen though.

With the current colonization system in place it's kinda moot.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Yea they need to do something to the colonization system. For one thing, West Europeans simply shouldn't be allowed to colonize Siberia by sea, and at some point Portuguese and Spanish should simply not be able to obtain more colonies at all. American colonies in general will need heightened drive for autonomy or independence as time goes by, I've never seen a colonial subject rebel after the new colonial nations (cool feature in itself).
 
Joined
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This new DLC actually seems like :incline:
Way better than making TWO trade-focused DLCs one after the other.
I like the new mechanics, they are quite good and simple to understand.
The India redesign is quite good, too, althrough I would love to have "East India Companies" for Europeans, like the Colonial Nations work but more emphasis on trade.

Will they finally make trade with India viable? Because as it is America is a much best bet if you're European.

I think I will come back to EUIV after this DLC gets two patches.
 
Unwanted
Douchebag! Shitposter
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Yea they need to do something to the colonization system. For one thing, West Europeans simply shouldn't be allowed to colonize Siberia by sea, and at some point Portuguese and Spanish should simply not be able to obtain more colonies at all. American colonies in general will need heightened drive for autonomy or independence as time goes by, I've never seen a colonial subject rebel after the new colonial nations (cool feature in itself).

No colonial subject rebels because it simply almost never happened in the EU4 timespawn. Only the US and it was a very specific situation.

Spanish and Portuguese already struggle, in fact they never manage to do it, to establish anything close to their colonial Empire IRL. You can never colonize the whole South and Central America and half the carribean in less than a century like they did.

Colonization did have some mean drawbacks in real life, differing for each country. In Spain it was a massive demographic hole and a fleeing elite. In england it was all the alienated groups being dumped as far away as possible, leading eventually to a lack of loyalty for their home country, and the only serious colonial revolt pre 19th century.

France could simply not efficiently colonize at all. It struggled to find anyone willing to leave the country, eventually forcing soldiers, prostitutes and criminals there, and still not having enough.
There was no incentive to leave because : It wasn't a shithole like England and north America was not a land of opportunity like South America was (no big native realm to enslave, no apparent riches except furs).

There should also be a big difference between colonizing north America, which was mostly empty, and south America which wasn't. The current native pop number is just a weak mechanism.

If you want to make colonization interesting, don't put retarded barriers like nerfing the Spanish and Portuguese.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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There's not one game for me where 90% of the colonies around haven't been Spanish or Portuguese (or just one of them, in case Spain inherits Portugal). Even if Spain stays Castille and never gets Aragon, it still grabs Australia and almost all of the Americas.
 
Unwanted
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It's a dirty lie. The AI colonizes rather slowly in the first place, and at it's pace, even if they were the sole colonizers, they wouldn't get more than the central and south Americas by the 18th century.

Norway, France, Scotland, England, Ireland and sometimes Hansa and netherland/burgundy are always prolific colonizers if they exists. Portugal and Spain merely have a 70 years head start, and in the begining where you don't make much gold it's nothing.

What you want is an incentive mechanism for colonization. And that's not going to happen because it's way beyond what Johan's brain can cope with.


Also, they still haven't explained why you should try to get into India as a European power. In fact, if you don't try to get 100% of the African coast, colonizing and acquiring anything east is not worth it at all.

But that's because the trade mechanism, after 2 dedicated ''expansions'' is still so bad.
 

MoLAoS

Guest
Well work on my 8000 province mod slowly moves on:
http://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/2drmd7/8000_land_province_map/

I was able to get the new map files to load in a mod that cloned the base game but in the actual mod I want to make the game constantly crashes. This is likely because I don't have enough province history files, or at least that seems to be the main possible answer. Anyone here done any successful work on complete map overhauls and could tell me where they had major issues?
 

zlocish

Educated
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Aug 24, 2014
Messages
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On the plus side, the EUIV trade system is still better than the click-clackery hell that was the old trade system.

I miss the old system. :|

New one is... basically nothing, you just set it up once and then forget about it. Spreadsheets at their finest I suppose.

The old system was basically nothing. Almost no interaction, just autosend merchants in right COTs. At least now you can have some influence on your trade efficiency in trade nodes.
 

Delterius

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I haven't played the Wealth of Nations but the new system lacks a certain oomph. New Clausewitz games need a sandboxy aspect in which the game creates entirely new stories, such as the pops from Victoria 2 or the Crowning Achievement of Awesome that is CKII's character system. What follows is one way in which I think EU4 could become something more.

Truth be told, trade in EU4, to me, is currently just an interesting framework. However much it tries put more of trade on screen, that is, to abstract less aspects of trade in the period the routes themselves do not portray any exchange. What we have is an uncanny stream of goods flowing from the whole world to one of the ultimate centers of trade - Seville, Venice and Holland. Facts such as how eastern goods were payed with spanish silver aren't really portrayed because those goods merely come to Europe as long as there are ships to carry them.

Maybe I like Victoria 2 a tad bit much, but I think demands for goods could be tracked on a regional basis and, depending on random events and local production, certain parts of the world might create opportunities that players can pursue. War (eventuality) and weather (random event, I guess) issues in grain producing areas such as Poland might force a dutch player to trade or even go to war in a particular way. Trade should be more than a way to tax and tariff your way into wealth but also as a way to fulfill your needs as a nation.
 
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baturinsky

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Wish I could understand how to play Victoria 2. Now all I can is to start it up, look at all the numbers and pie charts and run in shame.
 

Konjad

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The first game in any paradox game is just starting the game and looking what happens without much of my ingerention, i slowly learn simple things one by one while ignoring most of the stuff. in the end i fail that game, but the next time i start i know most of the basics by then and can play more-or-less successfully.
 

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