Expeditions: Conquistador Discussion Thread

[Elim]

Maybe i'm a pussy, but the camera FoV gives me a damn headache. The camera sucks in general, good game but i can't play it for too long.

 

[anus_pounder]

Woot. Got my first native. 2 less movement than a scout but boy does she hit like a truck. 134 Critical Damage on some poor doctor and without flanking bonus as well. If I could get criticals all day long with her attacks...Should supplement my scout build just fine. Also got an eagle warrior as well, haven't tried him yet but he looks like the native equivalent of a soldier - albeit with all offensive skills rather than defensive. Charge looks interesting, +5 damage for every movement before attack that turn. +20 if he gets to move all 4. Seems rather situational though.

 

[piydek]

I really love that the consequences for decisions in this game are so HUGE - and I'm not talking about the scripted events, but about the emergent gameplay that comes from... just doing stuff.

This is one of the things that impressed me the most about the game. The scope of reactivity of the game is amazing. The exact antithesis of most open-world games and the only way a true RPG should be. No LARPing here. You don't play things out in your head. The consequences are real. I see that's a huge amount of work and kudos to Logic Artists for pulling that off with so little resources compared to studios like Bethesda who can only dream of the coherence of world and events in it that is achieved here.

 

[dibens]

 

[Vault Dweller]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/237430/discussions/0/846954921844075043/

This one does have a point. I had similar feeling towards this game and also Inquisitor. These may be widely unused settings, but they may be unused for a good reason.

Here is a good comment on that:

This game looks cool and fun gameplay, but as the initial comment states, the setting is of very poor taste. This isn't some war for survival, the spanish went to central American and killed thousands and thousands of people for... gold. Now to play as a white european running around killing natives with superior weaponry, given the real history of GENOCIDE (not a small thing) and finding that fun?

I know, right? Considering that the Logic Arts are Scandinavians, I expected better from them. For example, instead of white Europeans running around and spreading negativity, they could have gone with minority youths rioting against the social injustice of the Indians having all this land and refusing to embrace the diversification.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Too many Wymyn Warriors in XVI setting is valid criticism... but you can make your team getting them as nuns and doctors so it is not as bad as in typical RPG game when you're forced with managerie in the name of diversity. Not to mention the argument that games are not for real.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Colonisation, for us, is a conquistador running around horseback killing natives.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Spanish were not very good at colonizing and usually acted like proper dicks while going about it, Portuguese on the other hand...

Take Brazil as an example,

We discovered it

We colonized it

And the result

Can be measured

 

[catfood]

Lady Drog

 

[J1M]

In fact I am disappointed that I can't butcher humans for meat in the game.

I forgot that some people are psychopaths who might enjoy that sort of thing.

Its not a matter of being psychopath , its about getting games for adults in a realistic setting . The Conquest of the new world brought its share of atrocities , so bad it even shocked the clergy with reports of natives being dismembered to feed dogs and pigs,and other unbelievable abominations (read las calas book, brevisima relacion, 1953)the game doesnt go nearly that far, its much much much much tamer than the truth .
Slavery , terrible wounds , disease, you get it all, you cant have an historic setting without it ,but again the game doesnt show anything graphically of it nor condone and glorify any of it.
You get some well written text,for exemple after a slave revolt you have the option to kill all your slaves and your racists(yes its a part of the npc traits) party members may rejoice and the others objects, spare them, or even free them all they dont go overboard .You never get the buckets of bloods splashed on screen like you see in modern games like dragon age 2 .

Given that Aztec culture was even more barbaric and "evil" than the most fictionalized accounts of Nazi Germany, I am a little surprised at why anyone would not feel righteous when undertaking a campaign of conquest against them.

 

[MicoSelva]

Given that Aztec culture was even more barbaric and "evil" than the most fictionalized accounts of Nazi Germany, I am a little surprised at why anyone would not feel righteous when undertaking a campaign of conquest against them.

Yeah, it's fine to shoot ancestors of contemporary Germans in every WW2 game, but fighting natives in 15th century is a big no-no, because they were there first, and Europeans were the evil invaders. :derp:

 

[dextermorgan]

And the result

Fixed

On a more serious note, this game looks really cool. I'll try it out soon, hopefully.

 

[Whisky]

Ouch, I just got absolutely murdered by a dev online. Turns out I'm pretty terrible at the game.

Still, was a pretty cool match. I learned I was neglecting certain abilities like Sneak.

I'm still enjoying the game a lot. Hope they can release an expansion one day.

 

[doggfookker]

Given that Aztec culture was even more barbaric and "evil" than the most fictionalized accounts of Nazi Germany, I am a little surprised at why anyone would not feel righteous when undertaking a campaign of conquest against them.

Yeah, it's fine to shoot ancestors of contemporary Germans in every WW2 game, but fighting natives in 15th century is a big no-no, because they were there first, and Europeans were the evil invaders. :derp:

As a boner-fide feminazi librul, I can say that I'm pretty sure the argument is that my great granpappy nazi taking a bullet in the gut back in '44 doesn't contribute much to my current socio-economic status, whereas my great great granpappy Stalking Shit Crow taking a bullet in the gut during the trail of tears or whatever the shit is part of the great cycle of my family and culture getting shafted year after year for generations. So when I see a dude shoots some nazis on his Xbox, it might be a little awkward to remember grandpa Fritz, but when dudes are subjugating the natives on their PCs, it is significantly more uncomfortable because I'm still getting shafted living on this here reservation in the middle of bumfuck nowhere and having nothing to do but drink and cling desperately to whatever heritage wasn't raped away by white shitheads. And the cruelty of the Aztecs ain't relevant because nobody's been suffering the lingering effects of their atrocities in a long ass time.

I think that's where dudes are coming from.

That said, I like the game, but I get big hard dicks from historical themed games, and a historical themed RPG is holy-shit-man-I-am-so-excited. The general premise is probably in bad taste: let white dudes live out the glorious days when white dudes were white dudes and could massacre all the brown people they want. But it is about as sensitive--if not more sensitive--than I'd expect any game to be concerning the subject matter. Being the wussy, untermensch librul I am, I of course am so sensitive and diplomatic with the natives while trying my best to shaft the White Menace and the game accommodates that very well. I still want to go native. I still want to kill all the white people. I don't know yet if that's possible in game.

 

[Zeriel]

Negative comments on forums, however unfounded and retarded they are (i have Steam forum in mind) affect sales and therefore have negative effect on ability to further produce quality content. It's the whole "consumer" logic of things that dictates the state of culture we're in. How does that not have declining effect? Games are shit today primarily because gamers are shit, not because there's no quality developers out there.

Eh, it's a conscious decision on the part of producers. Generally, the audience reflects (over time) the expectations of the market/products being made. Game developers decide (on average) they want to make more money, so they market and design games for people who have never played games before. As a result, even "hardcore gamers" get used to really weaksauce games, and so the expectations of the industry is set.

At the end of the day, it's almost always a result of what the developers decided to do, not the other way around.

 

[Zeriel]

I sortta get where you're coming from and mostly agree. The most ridiculous example of the "difficulty slider" philosophy is Diablo 3, where you can manually set the HP bloat of monsters. That is pretty fucked up idea of difficulty setting.

It doesn't bother me in strategy games though. For instance modded Civilization games let you set up every little detail in advance. In strategy games I wouldn't even call it a difficulty setting since in many cases it's not about making things more difficult or not. It's just general gameplay setting.

Yeah, I make a strong distinction between games built for and around direct competition of players (i.e Starcraft, Civilization, Age of Wonders), and everything else. It's this gradual infiltration of "make a 'autowin' difficulty so everyone can beat the game, and then the option of being trolled out by big numbers" concept into every game under the sun that worries me.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Have the devs said anything about the camera? At least a bigger zoom out function would go a ways to compensate the nauseating FOV and lack of panning.

 

[Zeriel]

Again, the presets are there specifucally for that reason. If you change any of the sliders, it becomes a 'Custom' difficulty.

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not specifically criticizing your game (or really criticiizing anything at all, just stating my preference), just the general trend of letting players dictate balance at a whim.

Ahh, fair enough. I haven't played many games that allowed to tweak the balance though, maybe I'm just blind, or unlucky.

It's a pretty standard feature these days. In every FPS (though admittedly it was in FPSes from the beginning, it just got aggressively more silly as time went on), most modern RPGs (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Skryim, yadda yadda). Like most designery responses to criticism about players varying tastes, I find the difficulty slider concept isn't bad in theory, but the way people use it is pretty horrifying. Generally it leads most people to put it on the easiest setting without really thinking about it, figuring they'll go back and play it on a harder setting once they've grown used to the game. Then they play through, find the game feels hollow with little challenge, and never have the itch to play again. This problem crops up a lot in player-centric game design. Players will often tell you they want something, then when it's implemented, they'll discover they don't really like it.

I'm probably just a egotistical dickbag for liking games to slap me in the face in my first hour and say, "Hey, fucker! You're bad. Get better if you want to beat the game." It's what I liked about Age of Decadence. (And new X-COM on Classic + Iron-Man, though that game also goes the difficulty slider route.)

 

[MicoSelva]

a historical themed RPG is holy-shit-man-I-am-so-excited

I wouldn't exactly call this game an RPG, but it has some strong RPG elements, for sure.
(Oh, Aterdux Entertainment, E:C is still more of an RPG than Legends of Eisenwald, although I suspect LoE has still a long way to go, because it is in a pretty rough state at the moment).

 

[Infinitron]

I still want to go native. I still want to kill all the white people. I don't know yet if that's possible in game.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

I wouldn't exactly call this game an RPG, but it has some strong RPG elements, for sure.
(Oh, Aterdux Entertainment, E:C is still more of an RPG than Legends of Eisenwald, although I suspect LoE has still a long way to go, because it is in a pretty rough state at the moment).

Well, you can either provide details or wait until I play E: C to form an opinion Otherwise it's hard to discuss and anyway, I am rooting very much for Logic Artists! I think that was a pretty smooth and professionally handled release, congratulations to them!

 

[MicoSelva]

I wouldn't exactly call this game an RPG, but it has some strong RPG elements, for sure.
(Oh, Aterdux Entertainment, E:C is still more of an RPG than Legends of Eisenwald, although I suspect LoE has still a long way to go, because it is in a pretty rough state at the moment).

Well, you can either provide details

I'll try to do that when (or rather: if) I have some time.

 

[J1M]

Again, the presets are there specifucally for that reason. If you change any of the sliders, it becomes a 'Custom' difficulty.

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not specifically criticizing your game (or really criticiizing anything at all, just stating my preference), just the general trend of letting players dictate balance at a whim.

Ahh, fair enough. I haven't played many games that allowed to tweak the balance though, maybe I'm just blind, or unlucky.

It's a pretty standard feature these days. In every FPS (though admittedly it was in FPSes from the beginning, it just got aggressively more silly as time went on), most modern RPGs (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Skryim, yadda yadda). Like most designery responses to criticism about players varying tastes, I find the difficulty slider concept isn't bad in theory, but the way people use it is pretty horrifying. Generally it leads most people to put it on the easiest setting without really thinking about it, figuring they'll go back and play it on a harder setting once they've grown used to the game. Then they play through, find the game feels hollow with little challenge, and never have the itch to play again. This problem crops up a lot in player-centric game design. Players will often tell you they want something, then when it's implemented, they'll discover they don't really like it.

I'm probably just a egotistical dickbag for liking games to slap me in the face in my first hour and say, "Hey, fucker! You're bad. Get better if you want to beat the game." It's what I liked about Age of Decadence. (And new X-COM on Classic + Iron-Man, though that game also goes the difficulty slider route.)

I like seeing how the difficulty will change with each setting, but I agree with you that playing with all of the settings should only be available by editing an .ini file or something.

 

[Tigranes]

My memory may be playing tricks but I"m pretty damn sure you could zoom out and move around the camera more in the press build. Together with the lack of a centre mouse button mouselook function (or am I an idiot and have not worked it out) it really is pretty annoying, and there are other little things. But that doesn't really take away from the core of the game which is fun.

 

[J1M]

My memory may be playing tricks but I"m pretty damn sure you could zoom out and move around the camera more in the press build. Together with the lack of a centre mouse button mouselook function (or am I an idiot and have not worked it out) it really is pretty annoying, and there are other little things. But that doesn't really take away from the core of the game which is fun.

I also found controlling the camera a pain, but I think you can rotate it with the right mouse button. Better camera would be a nice patch to this game.

I would also prefer an easier way to know if something will provide full or partial cover.