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Expeditions: Conquistador Discussion Thread

Commissar Draco

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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2

This one does have a point. I had similar feeling towards this game and also Inquisitor. These may be widely unused settings, but they may be unused for a good reason.

Here is a good comment on that:
This game looks cool and fun gameplay, but as the initial comment states, the setting is of very poor taste. This isn't some war for survival, the spanish went to central American and killed thousands and thousands of people for... gold. Now to play as a white european running around killing natives with superior weaponry, given the real history of GENOCIDE (not a small thing) and finding that fun?

However, apparently E:C gives you a choice to resolve everything peacefully with the natives instead of the way it really went down.

:codexisfor:Cause Natives were Angels who never practiced Wars of Conquests (Aztecs, Incas) Mass human sacrifices ( again Aztecs, Mayas) infanticide and cannibalism (Karibs and less so Arawaks Tainos were group of) Genocide etc... Fuck PC and people like you thanks to them we have mellow shit nobody will find controversial and moraly ambiguous in games. You don't like Strategies play Ass Affect or play with barbies.
 

Grunker

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An hour into it, I'm doing the same things I did during the press demo build. It is more polished as expected, and seems like everything is in place for a fun, if not particularly complex or revolutionary, romp.

Let me give a huge kudos to the difficulty settings, which is how it should be in every game:
MfNanhe.jpg


When I spoke to the devs about this, they actually told me it was actually possible to make these kinds of sliders for many games, but it was frowned upon. "Designers should design the game, leaving difficulty design up to the players is viewed as sort of a cop-out," they said. I just said fuck that, and told them more player freedom could never be a bad thing... and yeah, I fucking love the difficulty settings. They rock.

I've gotta say, I have to side with the people who frown on it. Arbitrary difficulty sliders in anything but an AI practice mode for competitive strategy games has always been irritating/boring/lame/pick-your-word-of-negative-connotation to me. It takes away from any sense of persistency or immersion for me. Not sure exactly why.


Eh... what? That's why there's still presets. Nobody is talking about taking the presets away, dude. I'm talking about more player choice, not less.
 

Lady_Error

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Cause Natives were Angels who never practiced Wars of Conquests (Aztecs, Incas) Mass human sacrifices ( again Aztecs, Mayas) infanticide and cannibalism (Karibs and less so Arawaks Tainos were group of) Genocide etc...

The difference is that there are (as far as I know) no games simulating cannibalism or human sacrifices. Or would you enjoy "re-playing" those activities too?
 

Kruno

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Cause Natives were Angels who never practiced Wars of Conquests (Aztecs, Incas) Mass human sacrifices ( again Aztecs, Mayas) infanticide and cannibalism (Karibs and less so Arawaks Tainos were group of) Genocide etc...

The difference is that there are (as far as I know) no games simulating cannibalism or human sacrifices. Or would you enjoy "re-playing" those activities too?

I sure as hell would. In fact I am disappointed that I can't butcher humans for meat in the game.
 

piydek

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http://steamcommunity.com/app/237430/discussions/0/846954921844075043/

This one does have a point. I had similar feeling towards this game and also Inquisitor. These may be widely unused settings, but they may be unused for a good reason.

Here is a good comment on that:


However, apparently E:C gives you a choice to resolve everything peacefully with the natives instead of the way it really went down.

No, that one does not have a point, it is completely retarded. This game doesn't "glorify" anything. It's just moralistic crap "argument". The game portrays a gray area, it's not a super-happy romp in the new world. If that person had a mind to comprehend this game and actually played it, he/she would see that in this game pretty much every outcome is not treated as a binary good/bad thing, but is pretty much an ambivalent situation where in every case something is lost and ruined. Not to mention that applying moralistic bullshit on pragmatics of history is a shit approach in and of itself.

Fuck, this "argument" could be applied primarily to so many mindless games today that treat their subject matter (often stuff like war) disrespectfully, where here this is not the case at all. The sense of loss and ruin prevails in this game no matter what you do.

Fuck those retards and fuck you for saying that such bullshit has any merit.
 

cvv

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
ause Natives were Angels who never practiced Wars of Conquests (Aztecs, Incas) Mass human sacrifices ( again Aztecs, Mayas) infanticide and cannibalism (Karibs and less so Arawaks Tainos were group of) Genocide etc... Fuck PC and people like you thanks to them we have mellow shit nobody will find controversial and moraly ambiguous in games. You don't like Strategies play Ass Affect or play with barbies.

This.
Also, I guess it's easier on the conscience of some gamers to slaughter millions in Vicky 2 or HoI 3 because the soldiers are just generic figurines (that is, unless you buy infantry spritepack DLC, at that point shit could get serious).
 

piydek

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In fact I am disappointed that I can't butcher humans for meat in the game.

I forgot that some people are psychopaths who might enjoy that sort of thing.

Panzer_General_Coverart.png


This game is for Nazis! It glorifies War and give You the option to strategically bomb the cities full of Civilians!

Yeah, and this game is cool because you fight the good fight and also violence is cartoonish enough, so we can swallow shovels of it, taking serious things as not so serious.

250px-Call_of_Duty_4_Modern_Warfare.jpg


But ambiguous and quite accurate historical portrayals, which by accident also make you think about your actions by not giving you binary options, now that's a baaad thing.

EDIT:

But let's not derail this thread with shit.
 

Lady_Error

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But ambiguous and quite accurate historical portrayals, which by accident also make you think about your actions by not giving you binary options, now that's a baaad thing.

That is actually a good argument. Why all the butthurt though?
 

Zeriel

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An hour into it, I'm doing the same things I did during the press demo build. It is more polished as expected, and seems like everything is in place for a fun, if not particularly complex or revolutionary, romp.

Let me give a huge kudos to the difficulty settings, which is how it should be in every game:
MfNanhe.jpg


When I spoke to the devs about this, they actually told me it was actually possible to make these kinds of sliders for many games, but it was frowned upon. "Designers should design the game, leaving difficulty design up to the players is viewed as sort of a cop-out," they said. I just said fuck that, and told them more player freedom could never be a bad thing... and yeah, I fucking love the difficulty settings. They rock.

I've gotta say, I have to side with the people who frown on it. Arbitrary difficulty sliders in anything but an AI practice mode for competitive strategy games has always been irritating/boring/lame/pick-your-word-of-negative-connotation to me. It takes away from any sense of persistency or immersion for me. Not sure exactly why.


Eh... what? That's why there's still presets. Nobody is talking about taking the presets away, dude. I'm talking about more player choice, not less.

I'm going to be really old school and say player choice isn't always good. Sure, player choice in how you solve problems and beat the game is great and improves the game, but difficulty sliders have always seemed like developer-legitimized cheat codes to me, outside of the realm of straight-up multiplayer strategy games. I'd rather there be one experience of the game that the developer intended that's challenging without pulling punches, than a Casual, Normal, and INSANE!!! mode, where the only differences between the three are mathematical sliders.

I fully realize this is a personal preference, though.
 

piydek

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That is actually a good argument. Why all the butthurt though?

Because it really pisses me off and sickens me at the same time, that in today's culture, not just in games, whenever something worthwhile and meaningful appears, it's derailed and driven into ground by the same retards who consume piles upon piles of garbage.
 

Avonaeon

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Again, the presets are there specifucally for that reason. If you change any of the sliders, it becomes a 'Custom' difficulty.
 

Zeriel

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Again, the presets are there specifucally for that reason. If you change any of the sliders, it becomes a 'Custom' difficulty.

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not specifically criticizing your game (or really criticiizing anything at all, just stating my preference), just the general trend of letting players dictate balance at a whim.
 

Avonaeon

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Again, the presets are there specifucally for that reason. If you change any of the sliders, it becomes a 'Custom' difficulty.

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not specifically criticizing your game (or really criticiizing anything at all, just stating my preference), just the general trend of letting players dictate balance at a whim.


Ahh, fair enough. I haven't played many games that allowed to tweak the balance though, maybe I'm just blind, or unlucky. :P
 

cvv

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
I'd rather there be one experience of the game that the developer intended that's challenging without pulling punches, than a Casual, Normal, and INSANE!!! mode, where the only differences between the three are mathematical sliders.

I fully realize this is a personal preference, though.
I sortta get where you're coming from and mostly agree. The most ridiculous example of the "difficulty slider" philosophy is Diablo 3, where you can manually set the HP bloat of monsters. That is pretty fucked up idea of difficulty setting.

It doesn't bother me in strategy games though. For instance modded Civilization games let you set up every little detail in advance. In strategy games I wouldn't even call it a difficulty setting since in many cases it's not about making things more difficult or not. It's just general gameplay setting.
 

Lady_Error

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That is actually a good argument. Why all the butthurt though?

Because it really pisses me off and sickens me at the same time, that in today's culture, not just in games, whenever something worthwhile and meaningful appears, it's derailed and driven into ground by the same retards who consume piles upon piles of garbage.

You should grow up. Nothing is derailed or driven into the ground. You are the one who seems familiar with Call of Duty, I have never played it. So much for "consuming garbage".
 

Mortmal

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In fact I am disappointed that I can't butcher humans for meat in the game.

I forgot that some people are psychopaths who might enjoy that sort of thing.


Its not a matter of being psychopath , its about getting games for adults in a realistic setting . The Conquest of the new world brought its share of atrocities , so bad it even shocked the clergy with reports of natives being dismembered to feed dogs and pigs,and other unbelievable abominations (read las calas book, brevisima relacion, 1953) the game doesnt go nearly that far, its much much much much tamer than the truth .
Slavery , terrible wounds , disease, you get it all, you cant have an historic setting without it ,but again the game doesnt show anything graphically of it nor condone and glorify any of it.
You get some well written text,for exemple after a slave revolt you have the option to kill all your slaves and your racists(yes its a part of the npc traits) party members may rejoice and the others objects, spare them, or even free them all they dont go overboard .You never get the buckets of bloods splashed on screen like you see in modern games like dragon age 2 .
 

Commissar Draco

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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Again, the presets are there specifucally for that reason. If you change any of the sliders, it becomes a 'Custom' difficulty.

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not specifically criticizing your game (or really criticiizing anything at all, just stating my preference), just the general trend of letting players dictate balance at a whim.

Logistic Arts could always go VD way and say Good Fucking Riddance to people who buy their games... o_O Since it the players who (pay for) and play their games I don't see nothing wrong in giving them more ways to F... up enjoy it. I respect Vault Dweller cojones, artistic vision and standing up to lazy bums but his would propably sell to twice the number of people if he would add this difficulty bar.
 

piydek

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That is actually a good argument. Why all the butthurt though?

Because it really pisses me off and sickens me at the same time, that in today's culture, not just in games, whenever something worthwhile and meaningful appears, it's derailed and driven into ground by the same retards who consume piles upon piles of garbage.

You should grow up. Nothing is derailed or driven into the ground. You are the one who seems familiar with Call of Duty, I have never played it. So much for "consuming garbage".

Negative comments on forums, however unfounded and retarded they are (i have Steam forum in mind) affect sales and therefore have negative effect on ability to further produce quality content. It's the whole "consumer" logic of things that dictates the state of culture we're in. How does that not have declining effect? Games are shit today primarily because gamers are shit, not because there's no quality developers out there.
 

MicoSelva

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So far I love this game even on Normal you can easily run out of food and starve even on Hispaniola.
Should have brought more Hunters. ;) My guys are giving me enough surplus that I turned meat->rations into a steady source of revenue.

I really love that the consequences for decisions in this game are so HUGE - and I'm not talking about the scripted events, but about the emergent gameplay that comes from... just doing stuff. And doing this stuff is very enjoyable. The amount of micro-managament is probably optimal (at least so far) - there is enough to make a difference when You're making Your own decisions instead of "going auto", but not as much as to slow game down to a crawl.

Also, the focus on exploration. :love: To think that of all the Kickstarter projects featured on The Codex, this one I was the most skeptical about. Great to have been so wrong!
 

DeepOcean

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This one does have a point. I had similar feeling towards this game and also Inquisitor. These may be widely unused settings, but they may be unused for a good reason.

Here is a good comment on that:
This game looks cool and fun gameplay, but as the initial comment states, the setting is of very poor taste. This isn't some war for survival, the spanish went to central American and killed thousands and thousands of people for... gold. Now to play as a white european running around killing natives with superior weaponry, given the real history of GENOCIDE (not a small thing) and finding that fun?

However, apparently E:C gives you a choice to resolve everything peacefully with the natives instead of the way it really went down.
Man, those retards on steam don't know that the fuck they are talking about and implicitly defending censure. I don't know if they are projecting their sadism on others but most people play the game not to enjoy slaghtering virtual people but to have the joy to play an authentic recreation of the time.Treating the natives as helpless children, as alot of lefties tend to , would just belittle them, stripping them of their history by treating them as THE indians ignoring the different nationalities and conflicts that existed long before the Europeans came and strip them of their humanity, if they were happy hippies living in the wonderland why most of Cortez troops were composed by natives enemie of the Aztecas, Incas and Mayas? The conquistadores were many times cruel, as the Aztecas and Incas were before, as all people involved in conquest are, if their cruelty wasn't a possibility in the game you would have no idea about the native suffering and how the conquest of the New World happened when the whole point of the game is putting you there. I guess people feel butthurt about the potential cruelty available in the game because they want to continue with their blindness and think that conquest can be done without massive doses of violence and the violence is the only product of particular evil men.
 

Commissar Draco

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^ Did this on my Aguirre play though which is much more fun than playing XVI century game as undomesticated snowman any way... Not to mention you can always play it as Cortez did and avoid the extremes. (aside from Case of Hispaniola where the local Conquistadors acted contrary to the will of Catholic Monarchs most of Indians died cause of epidemics not Spanish actions) You can always choose the less blood outcome using the Tactics, Diplomacy, etc... More choice is always good thing.
 

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