Fallout 2 was always incline

[Ryan muller]

Bigger != Better

Oh believe me im not going for bigger = better when it comes to Fo2

 

[NecroLord]

What are you talking about, mate?
New Reno is great.
Lots of quests, cool atmosphere and soundtrack.
The politics of the four crime families, each one trying to gain supremacy over the city...

 

[Ryan muller]

As far as I remember, Fallout's non-special encounter pop culture references make sense in context. "Prime Choice Select is made of people" is a reference to Soylent Green, yes, but it's not out of the ordinary for the character to shout a thing like that in that situation. Likewise the "They killed Kenny" reference when Kenny dies.

Yet you can talk with talking cows that will constantly break the fourth wall by saying "moo, i say" return to V13 and search for things in computers from V13 to have quotes about how you spent time searching for porn videos and cat videos in the internet (even tho the internet is not something in FO, nor Cats in the wasteland)

Then you find shitton of people going around the wasteland using leather jackets similar to mel gibson's for no reason other than looking like mad max

And then confront the final boss of the game by saying he is a baddie and because baddies always brag about their malevolent plan before acting, he has to do the same to follow the archetypes.

Fo1 is a smaller game and obviously have less of the overabundance of pop culture references and hilarious dialogue, but all of those are there in one way or another, not all of them restricted to Special encounters and some of them directly showing up in moments that are supposed to be serious.

 

[OttoQuitmarck]

Yeah, but in a lot of ways Bethesda took it even further and piled on way more inconsistencies in the long run.

It's been a long time since I've played Fallout 3, but that Wasteland Survival Guide thing was just really dumb. Megaton in general was really dumb, but the Survival Guide quests were well over the top. The fact you'd leave the vault on a mission to find your dad and get distracted by someone claiming to write a book which involves you repeatedly hurting yourself was just really silly. People building a settlement around a nuclear bomb that's leaking radiation was also stupid. Supposedly rich people living in a standing skyscraper with no plausible means of supporting themselves that want to set off a nearby nuclear bomb to improve their view is retarded as shit.

Little Lamplight was impossibly bad considering it's 200 years after the bombs and it's still populated by kids who get kicked out when they're 18? Makes no sense at all. Other than the replenishing the population thing, the people most capable of tracking their ages to that degree would be the ones getting kicked out. Also, the people most physically able to resist getting kicked out. Also, it's right next door to the vault full of supermutants that are actively looking for people to dip to replenish their population. There's the slavers who apparently sell slaves to no one, since there's no slaves anywhere else in the game. You'd think in 200 years, the supermutants would have found that. Actually, it would have made more sense that the supermutants had found it and the slavers managed to work out a deal with them to catch humans for them, which would explain why there's no slaves anywhere else and why the supermutants didn't attack places like Little Lamplight.

Bethesda bragging about how their designers just do their own writing explains a lot of why things are so disconnected in Fallout 3. They did really lean in to silly shit in that game. I think it's obvious Fallout 2 opened the door for things not making sense because the designers thought it was funny, and Feargus even admits they didn't do a lot of coordination between the designers. It's interesting that what Feargus admits was a mistake, Bethesda gives Ted Talks on how things should be done. But yes, Bethesda did take that ball and run with it.

Fallout 2 still owns fallout 1

Bigger != Better

It's explained in "the Pitt" dlc for Fallout 3 that the slaves are exported to the Pitt.

 

[luj1]

Fallout 2 is barely below Fallout, get real

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

New Reno is great.

How do they eat? Same problem with nearly all the settlements in Fallout 3.

It's explained in "the Pitt" dlc for Fallout 3 that the slaves are exported to the Pitt.

Fair enough, but it just seems kind of odd to show slavers and a slaver camp in Fallout 3, only to pay it off two years later in a DLC. It's kind of the problem with Fallout 3 being 200 years after the Great War with very little advancement with civilization. There's not a lot of settlements large enough to have a police force in Fallout 3 to enforce an anti-slavery ordinance, but there's also not too many that also look like they could afford a slave either. Does Rivot City have one? It might, but I don't recall. I wouldn't think Tenpenny would have an anti-slavery edict, they could afford such, yet no slaves.

 

[NecroLord]

How do they eat?

Drug trading and manufacturing (Jet), porn studio and slaves (Mordino Family).
Alcohol production and distribution (Wright Family).
Casino and chemical trading with the Enclave in exchange for extra firepower (The Salvatores).
Casino and political power plays (The Bishops).

 

[Ryan muller]

New Reno is great.

How do they eat? Same problem with nearly all the settlements in Fallout 3.

It's explained in "the Pitt" dlc for Fallout 3 that the slaves are exported to the Pitt.

Fair enough, but it just seems kind of odd to show slavers and a slaver camp in Fallout 3, only to pay it off two years later in a DLC. It's kind of the problem with Fallout 3 being 200 years after the Great War with very little advancement with civilization. There's not a lot of settlements large enough to have a police force in Fallout 3 to enforce an anti-slavery ordinance, but there's also not too many that also look like they could afford a slave either. Does Rivot City have one? It might, but I don't recall. I wouldn't think Tenpenny would have an anti-slavery edict, they could afford such, yet no slaves.

I would like to add on top of necrolord post and say that the families buy supplies from the NCR (biggest brahmin export) and its to the point of Mordinos having a bunch of brahmin to use both as food supply and in order to produce JET.

People that have no ties to the families are mostly starving and eating from trash cans, begging for money or going into prostitution in order to have the bare minimum to buy from them.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Just a few more years until Fallout 2 is thirty years old. By that time we can finally progress to debating whether OG Underrail is better than Infusion.

 

[Saldrone]

One of the best contributions about Fallout 2 is it's source engine getting ported to Fallout 1.

 

[Ryan muller]

One of the best contributions that could be made about Fallout 2 is it's source engine getting ported to Fallout 1.

Wouldnt this fuck up Fo1 itemization?

Fo1 doesnt have a whole lot of big guns for example, so flamer ammo working as it should, means it does less damage than it would do in the base game, same for a bunch of other guns.

Fo2 fixes it by adding a bunch of other options and new ammo types, fo1 doesnt have this luxury

The itemization in that game mostly works because ammo types dont work

 

[NecroLord]

One of the best contributions that could be made about Fallout 2 is it's source engine getting ported to Fallout 1.

Wouldnt this fuck up Fo1 itemization?

Fo1 doesnt have a whole lot of big guns for example, so flamer ammo working as it should, means it does less damage than it would do in the base game, same for a bunch of other guns.

Fo2 fixes it by adding a bunch of other options and new ammo types, fo1 doesnt have this luxury

The itemization in that game mostly works because ammo types dont work

Does it also introduce Fallout 2 weapons into the game, like the Bozar and the Pulse Rifle?

 

[Saldrone]

Fo2 fixes it by adding a bunch of other options and new ammo types, fo1 doesnt have this luxury

Does it also introduce Fallout 2 weapons into the game, like the Bozar and the Pulse Rifle?

I've seen some screenshots were it also ports weapons and the advanced power armor from Fallout 2. I'd personally prefer to turn them off since it ruins the authenticity of the first game

 

[NecroLord]

Fo2 fixes it by adding a bunch of other options and new ammo types, fo1 doesnt have this luxury

Does it also introduce Fallout 2 weapons into the game, like the Bozar and the Pulse Rifle?

I've seen some screenshots were it also ports weapons and the advanced power armor from Fallout 2. I'd personally prefer to turn them off since it ruins the authenticity of the first game

I agree.
That's why I was asking.
Advanced Power Armor is way too overpowered for Fallout, and so are the likes of the Bozar and the Pulse Rifle.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Premise/call to action sets the tone for the entire game. Most are mid tier, not great, not appalling, mostly logical. In that case, all other elements of an RPG, mechanics, gameplay and story wise can be looked at in depth. When it's retarded, the entire experience suffers for it. FO2, case in point.

The QoL and small improvements with mechanics and some quest structure is not drastic enough to make up for the retarded premise. Hell, even if everything was on another order of magnitude better than FO1 (it's not, I'm even throwing you a bone here), you're still going from themepark to themepark. There's no call to action, no satisfying reason for adventure, on top of building on the shoulders of a giant before it.

If you enjoy that, more power to you, but relax with the cope. FO2 is anything but incline. It's at most a side grade, and that's being nice.

Also, will never let anyone forget. FO1 replayability >>>>>>>> FO2. Only reason to replay FO2 is to play a retard, which infact is better written, funnier and even makes much more sense for the premise.

 

[Ryan muller]

Also, will never let anyone forget. FO1 replayability >>>>>>>> FO2. Only reason to replay FO2 is to play a retard, which infact is better written, funnier and even makes much more sense for the premise.

Your entire reply was retarded, but this is such a huge BS that i refuse to even take it seriously.

You never replayed FO1 right?

 

[Ryan muller]

Seriously, anybody who thinks Fo1 is more replayable than Fo2 should try and replay both before spreading this shit.

its just objectively false, unless you partake on those group of people that rather have short games with barely any changes during playtroughts instead of longer ones with actual changes

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

You know you have nothing to say when the only point made is making shit up. You have some of the most reddit tier takes on this entire site, you're the last person who should be making any claims about not replaying classics, you're out of your element. Fallout replayed, Fallout 2 only once and never again, didn't waste a second with the rest, no need to.

Writing disjointed themeparks for the lulz is the simplest, easiest writing you can do. Figure out a reason for the adventure first, that's the hard part which requires talent, then enjoy time putting in all the lulz and side content. Premise & call to action is very important for such RPGs, if you do not care about that, then play a sandbox game. FO2 would've worked much better in that way, then it could be good for what it was written to be, not what it tried and failed to do.

Kenshi & Space Rangers >>>>> FO2. Those games succeed at their goal.

 

[Ryan muller]

Fallout replayed, Fallout 2 only once and never again, didn't waste a second with the rest, no need to.

i rest my case.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Drug trading and manufacturing (Jet), porn studio and slaves (Mordino Family).
Alcohol production and distribution (Wright Family).
Casino and chemical trading with the Enclave in exchange for extra firepower (The Salvatores).
Casino and political power plays (The Bishops).

I know that Fallout 2 was rushed, and yes, the Wrights would have to have fields somewhere in order to get the grain to make their alcohol, but the problem is that you don't see any of that in the game. And yes, the Mordino family does have the brahmin farm outside of town that you get to see, but New Reno is entirely a commercial entity. So the question is how would they have gotten to be such without having some type of agriculture going on in order to get to that point? Also, you have to wonder where the Wrights get the vast amount of clean water they'd need to make their alcohol.

This is one of the problems with New Reno is that we're supposed to just accept the way it is in the game, with enough tourism going on to support four rival gangs with not much at all to show how any of this is possible or how they got there. Bishop is a big enough figure in status in order to want to assassinate Westin, but how did he get to that point? How did he get large enough in the NCR to where Westin would be in his way to the point of needing him wacked? And why?

Once you concede that the only way they can eat is tourism, you have to wonder how much tourism they get. The closest thing they have to them is Broken Hills, and I don't see any of their people in New Reno. The next closest settlement is Redding, and that's a three day walk in modern times. There's no ATMs or checkbooks in the wasteland, so any coins you want to spend there, you have to carry in bags. Any winnings you have, you'll have to carry back in bags. But enough people have to be going there with enough coins to support all those gangs. Junkies are only a one way funnel and they can only get money from stealing from tourists or prostitution to tourists.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Seriously, anybody who thinks Fo1 is more replayable than Fo2 should try and replay both before spreading this shit.

My unwind ritual late in college was to come home after class and spend four to five hours replaying Fallout from start to finish before doing my homework if I was off that day.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Theres nothing wrong with New reno, a few people dressing themselves as mobsters for guarding specific cassinos for rich families isnt implausible or completely out of place.

We should be glad that the Fallout 2 developers had sufficient restraint not to make the entire city an anachronistic caricature of a gambling town, unlike a certain later game.

Ring-a-ding-ding!

 

[Ryan muller]

Also, you have to wonder where the Wrights get the vast amount of clean water they'd need to make their alcohol.

a bunch of places export water supplies alongside their caravans, Vault city being one example and the problems with the ghouls being in their way because of it. Its not enough for everybody there. Which is one of the reasons why nobody aside from the families have enough to live well, while people on streets are feeding on rats and begging for resources, money or more jet.

So the question is how would they have gotten to be such without having some type of agriculture going on in order to get to that point?

Reno is a tourist trap entirely maintained by the families, its less of an entire functional society and more like their little gallery of goods and production, yes, they had more of it at some point, however The city isnt the same since they were attacked by the unity, which is the reason why the families hate mutants and jules outright tell you about it. as it is in the game, they either have to maintain production outside of the city or buy supplies from water caravans and merchants like Vic. "How many tourists they get" many. its implied that most of the people living there were tourists to start with. considering how many places will tell us they often made excursions to New reno and sold things to the town by using caravans... well, not difficulty to guess. its also the same logic used for the BoS bunker in Fo1 that has a bunch of people in there and they all survive from caravan trades.

but the problem is that you don't see any of that in the game.

you can tell me that one of the problems would be that they mostly tell more than show, however they go out of their way to explain how a good part of the societies work and how their economy and trade route system is functional, if you get to those questions in Fo1 you will certainly have to think a lot more, for example, where Gizmo got electricity to power up his cassino in junktown? where did this come from? How the water merchants and people around the wastes got clean water? they dont? why the vault 13 citizens would refuse to drink water that isnt clean to the point of choosing to die from thirty then? How did the master moved from the military base and went all the way to the cathedral while not being noticed by anyone if he can barely move? where did the gun runners got enough tech to produce guns and the schematics to make them and how they even started their business? how they can even be there if the place is highly exposed to radiation and deathclaws are close to the fort? caravans? they wouldnt cross the place knowing that theres deathclaws in there, the bladers explictly say they wouldnt contact them because of that,so on and so on...

 

[Ryan muller]

My unwind ritual late in college was to come home after class and spend four to five hours replaying Fallout from start to finish before doing my homework if I was off that day

I know that, i replayed Fo1 13 times

And 2 atleast 20

however, its absurd to tell 1 has more replay value than 2 when it comes to actual content, a high int playtrought and a low int one are all you need to see all the game's content. most replay value in Fo1 comes from trying different playstyles and builds, but more builds are viable in 2 and theres a lot more content locked behind stats, skillchecks and special reputations.

Fo1 evil playtroughts wont even work properly, in 2 its not only possible, but arguably more fun to play than the good karma PC

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

where Gizmo got electricity to power up his cassino in junktown?

Power is one thing that it would have been nice if they explained in Fallout since later on, it doesn't quite make sense at all. The only power generators I remember in the original games were in the vaults, military bases, Broken Hills and the NCR with several of them being quest points like the guy wanting to blow up the Shady Sands' generator. Fallout 4 added the fusion generator that runs on fusion cores, which kind of makes the whole point of the resource war moot.

How did the master moved from the military base and went all the way to the cathedral while not being noticed by anyone if he can barely move?

I'm pretty sure what you see in Fallout isn't what he was when he moved. Even if he was the blob you see in Fallout, he was only in the Cathedral for ten years before you blow him up. He was around for decades before that, building up his army. Supposedly he found Mariposa in 2102 and got mutated, and got blown up in 2162. So, he would have had supermutants by then to carry him. Possibly even Nightkin at that point.

How the water merchants and people around the wastes got clean water?

You can see the water machinery near their headquarters, with the tanks that store the fresh water, including the giant tank beyond the three smaller ones. How does it work? Don't know, but it's there. Could be a well pump with a Water Chip.