X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

[Multi-headed Cow]

It's a goddamn 5 mission tutorial with gradually decreasing amounts of railroading and adviser pestering

Supposedly it can be skipped though. I recall the guy in the OXM videos mentioning it can be turned off.

 

[Jashiin]

RPS is quickly losing it for me. Love that site usually but it's clear they've gotten way too involved with Xcom to give any 'fair and balanced' account of it.

RPS's main use these days is simply to become aware of the existence of projects. They do give a lot of interesting things exposure.. but when it comes to the big names nothing seems trustworthy.

 

[Storyfag]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FaR-oDSxb3I#t=2619s

This is far enough into the game that the enemy density cranks up and there are some legit patrolling/hunting enemies (the floaters that show up in the first enemy turn)

But... they're not doing any legit patrolling? They don't shoot at the soldiers, but simply jump for cover, just like every other alien we've seen so far?



I can feel the rage overtaking me. It is a good pain.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Ooooh, haven't watched that Gamespot video yet. I'll have to do that.

Speaking of OXM, checked and they have their next video out.

 

[Gozma]

First move of game: 100% retarded

Fun video tho

 

[KoolNoodles]

These main points are what has ruined XCOM combat for me I think, and they won't be fixed. Not even sure if they can really be modded, it would make a whole new game.

From a commenter on RPS:

"Nonexistent facing – overwatch 360 degrees for the win
This strikes me as very weird. They seem to want to transition the game from being about facing to being about cover. I’m not sure I like the change.
The move towards cover and % chance to hit as the basis of combat rather than concealment and % chance to fire accurately. In the original X-COM, if you were behind something, you were safe until that thing was blown up, and you were doubly safe because nobody could see you. Not strictly true with explosives/telepathy but his point remains valid.

In this new game, bullets will break the fabric of reality to hit their target as long as you roll a “hit.” Cover doesn’t actually block anything, even being behind a corner doesn’t protect you from being seen or being shot – cover or a corner just add to the % chance that the bullets miss.

Is it possible to hit an alien that wasn’t your intended target, or do bullets that miss just disappear in midair?"

Also, I don't think it's possible to sneak up on anybody anymore. Everyone in the game automatically views everything around them. Can aliens fire from the fog of war even? Man, this game just looks so bad now.

 

[Gozma]

How could they fire from FoW anyway if you both have 360 degree vision and the same viewing range? You can't shoot stuff you can't see and can't see what you can't shoot.

When I first saw this I was hoping they would figure out how to make X-Com fun for me again by patching up all the shit that is wrong or boring without fucking up the stuff I liked - I figured that was the kind of thing pro designers could do with 4 years of work. Instead they ripped the whole battlescape part out and replaced it with a MTG-boardgame version of itself crossed with a cover system. I'd rather have the first but hey it's a new TB squad tactics game I haven't played to death, with a good looking strategy layer and etc etc

 

[bonescraper]

Also, I don't think it's possible to sneak up on anybody anymore.

You can get a stealth suit at some point. Are you satisfied now?

 

[sser]

How could they fire from FoW anyway if you both have 360 degree vision and the same viewing range? You can't shoot stuff you can't see and can't see what you can't shoot.

And therein lies the problem. What's the point of tactics if you can never leverage some advantage over your enemy? Even something so simple as being able to see them while they can't see you (arguably the linchpin of modern combat). Everything is laid out on an even playing field. That's not particularly tactical. Tactical can be sitting in an alleyway and plugging holes in anybody who wanders past. In this game, you can't wander past, you just see everything with outstanding, omniscient peripheral vision. You can't even hide behind anything. Let's say a squad moves up to a wall. In any ordinary game, you would know they were at the wall, but what else? If they crouch you can no longer see them, they could be moving up or down or staying still. You have to find out quick! This is intriguing gameplay in its most basic form. In this game, a squad moves to a wall and crouches. You still see them. They now have a Cover Bonus, and you can exchange fire with them.

It's literally Napoleonic tactics in a game with fucking machine guns and missiles. It really does not get more pathetic and backward.

Edit: And I will probably be buying it anyway because of the dearth in strategy titles

 

[Gozma]

I want to agree straight off but I'm also pretty bored of sightrange-manipulation-based combat in JA2 1.13 and UFOD/TFTD (which are just exhausting to play correctly, honestly - largely because they need a really robust UI with smart AI/level designs and I have no confidence in Xenonauts to manage it) and I've enjoyed complete no-FoW squad games like Tactics Ogre too.

 

[Raghar]

Actually the bigger problem than shooting at what an alien can't see are these exploding cars.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

well this is honestly one of the worst things I've ever played in every way

there is absolutely no fucking game here, you just run from cover to cover watching awesome cinematic extreme camera action and the aliens just sit in position until you enter their vicinity and then WOOOOAAAH AWESOME EXTREME CINEMATIC MOVEMENT AS THEY DIVE FROM COVER TO POP CAPS IN ASSES watch as your character awesomely leans around cover and pops caps in alien asses in extreme slowmo coolcam

sure you can turn the cinematic cam off but then you are left with nothing, there is no game

you can't choose to walk, stealth, crouch, go prone, anything, you can't face directions

I wasn't expecting much, maybe a fun casual strategy game at best

it's

not

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

well this is honestly one of the worst things I've ever played in every way

 

[UncleJimb0]

Just finished the X-COM demo. Twice. Thought I would save some folks the trouble and post this.

My initial reaction:


...really, it's not THAT bad, Darth. Fanboi.

(Maybe) The demo does a terrible job of showcasing what the new X-COM's gameplay will be like. A tutorial that leads me around by the nose and MAKES me move soldiers to specific spots and perform specific actions might be fine for a grand strategy game (I don't play the tutorials in games like Total War or Europe Universalis, but some people might) but in this game it turned me off right away. The first tutorial 'mission' is a tortuous, drawn out cut-scene that requires my acquiescence click by click just to get to the end, and requires me to make retarded tactical decisions that get my squad killed. It played out exactly the same both times.

The demo then introduces us to soldier upgrades and research & development...very Mass Effect-y. You get to pick where your base is built with some associated bonuses. I am disturbed that, instead of a free-form geoscape, there are five regions. I know that base placement in anything other than a general sense didn't affect gameplay in the original X-COM much, but it was still fun to pick where your bases were deployed. You get to make one of 2 possible research choices but don't see the results. Meh.

Then you are summoned to the command center to pick one of two possible alien abduction missions to respond to. Here my two demo playthroughs diverged slightly: the first time I could pick between San Francisco, USA or Beijing, China; my second time through, I could pick between Kansas City and Hong Kong. You don't get any soldier options and a generic team of heavy, medic, sniper, and assault are deployed each time.

The second mission opens up your 'options' considerably. You have two specific orders given at the beginning, but once you've followed those you are free to proceed. Along a completely linear level. On each of my playthroughs I picked a different country but both times the maps were exactly the same. The same two Sectoids, two Floaters, and two Thin Men spawned at exactly the same place each time.

As far as the tactical engine goes, it shows promise IMO. While not as detailed as previous tactical X-COMs (or many of the games inspired by them), the different soldier abilities (even in a very rookie squad) make soldier movement and combat somewhat interesting. The alien AI isn't really anything to write home about, but the aliens did behave differently during each of my missions (for example, on the second run a Floater rocketed up and landed behind my squad for a pretty effective flanking maneuver and the Thin Men attacked on the first run and retreated to defensive positions on the second.) On each run my shots hit or missed at lucky or inopportune times, reshaping the situation each turn.

On my first run I played this demo like I play X-COM : slowly, methodically, leapfrog advancing under overwatch cover, watching angles, using every advantage possible. And you have a lot of advantages...grenades, a rocket, a medkit (didn't need it), and lots of hit points compared to these (weak) enemies. I think my guys took hits twice and we killed 6 aliens. The fact that your lowest unarmored rookie troopers can take close range plasma fire and not be instantly gibbed is a really bad sign for the game imo.

So on my second run, after I noted that the map was the same, I played as dumb as I could without tossing grenades at my own feet. I left my LMG/rocket soldier at spawn and switched my other three to their pistols and ran straight at the enemy each time, ignoring cover. Do you think that made any difference in the outcome? Nope. 6 kills, 0 deaths. Granted, my 3 guys were really shot up at the end...but surviving multiple plasma shots and running right up to the enmy and blazing away point blank(with an occasional miss, btw) should have lost me that mission.

So the mission select screen said EASY. Sure. The advanced difficulty levels will fix all that. Sure. Ironman, blah blah. I could recite a dozen other minor things that bothered me, but you get it.

The graphics are unimportant, but they don't disappoint. Since still playing and enjoying a game that looks like this:

I don't feel that graphical quality should really be a factor.

Contrast this experience with my first ever mission in X-COM UFO Defense when I was 11 : My 8 rookies were absolutely WRECKED by 4 sectoids; I had no idea how reaction fire worked, just how quickly my troops could die, and how inaccuate their fire was going to be. My last wounded soldier killed the last sectoid with 3 or 4 shots from a pistol and ended the mission. ...I was devastated. Then I was hooked. I spent weeks learning the game. It took me an embarrassing amount of time to figure out you could open UFO doors by just clicking inside the UFO. My first alien base assaults were unmitigated disasters. I saw the defeat screens 5 or 6 times before I got anywhere near an Avenger, an alien Commander, or Cydonia. THEN I tried TFTD and probably could I have been briefly institutionalized for what that game did to me.

This demo seems to be trying to distract today's 11 year old from his kiddie COD clan for long enough to make a Steam sale. I never expected to be playing October's X-COM reboot in 2040...but still enjoying it in 2014 would be nice.

Me=butthurt? Not yet...but I am going to be kind and get a nice big tube o' lube for my beloved X-COM on the 9th. It's probably going to need it.

 

[Trash]

Is it possible to hit an alien that wasn’t your intended target, or do bullets that miss just disappear in midair?"

One of the awesome things of UFO was missing an alien and hitting one of your own, or hitting that fuel tank and blowing up half a ufo. They honestly fucked that up?

 

[KoolNoodles]

Is it possible to hit an alien that wasn’t your intended target, or do bullets that miss just disappear in midair?"

One of the awesome things of UFO was missing an alien and hitting one of your own, or hitting that fuel tank and blowing up half a ufo. They honestly fucked that up?

Not sure, I uninstalled the demo after playing through once and didn't test everything. The only thing I noticed for "collateral damage" was either due to explosive weapons impacting their area, or if a shot missed it would still sometimes destroy the cover a unit was "behind". Those were the remarks of somebody on RPS so maybe he saw the same things. Can't confirm it though, it does seem like one of those "are you kidding me?" things that I wouldn't believe is not in the game, but as bad as my impressions were, maybe not so surprised anymore.

 

[good little toastboy]

The map in that OXM video to me looks like it's the same as the 2nd tutorial mission from the demo. So they really can't even shuffle parts of the map around with this awesome new 3d engine?

 

[Gord]

The map in that OXM video to me looks like it's the same as the 2nd tutorial mission from the demo. So they really can't even shuffle parts of the map around with this awesome new 3d engine?

No, it's a different map, only using the same tiles ("docks").
Different layout, though.

 

[SuicideBunny]

So they really can't even shuffle parts of the map around with this awesome new 3d engine?

the reason you think it's the same map is because they did precisely that...

 

[good little toastboy]

It still only consists of the exact 4 parts in a row with the middle two (crater and container bit) being switched around this time, if my memory is correct. I really don't want to play through the demo a second time. I'm absolutely sure the Skyranger location with the house which is now the extraction point was the starting location in the demo and the warehouse where this one starts was the end of the tutorial/location of the thin men. If this is an indication of how randomized maps will be in the final game, it's another thing that leaves me worried. On a 1x4 map, does it really matter which part comes first as long as you can only get to them from 2 sides? It will play pretty much the same.

 

[Gord]

I think you are exaggerating the similarities there.
Yes, they share the same tiles, yes there will be parts that are similar. Still the layout seems different enough to me.
Also, it was pretty much the same in the originals and it never bothered me there.
Of course, there's also the RPS article that admitted that the maps in the new game generally don't feel as good as in the old one.

I'm more concerned about how many different maps there will be in the end. Are the maps the same everytime when you get to choose between missions as they have been in the demo?
Or was this, too, only a result of seeing only the tutorial?

 

[Malakal]

Looks horribly bad. Its not even X-COM if your soldiers at the beginning arent useless and dont die like flies. Seems way too easy too.

 

[SuicideBunny]

The fact that your lowest unarmored rookie troopers can take close range plasma fire and not be instantly gibbed is a really bad sign for the game imo.

change the difficulty to impossible via the ini file and try it again.

 

[Gord]

Yeah, well, demo's shit.
See the other two threads.

 

[Lindblum]

This is the result of catering to gamers of today.

Hopefully Player Mods should be able to restore it to full glory.