X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

[Awor Szurkrarz]

This thread is full of disgusting race traitors.

 

[sea]

I absolutely hate hate hate hate hate hat HATE that everything seems to be driven by a story. Would it have killed them to add a freeplay mode where you get plopped into the game and then be left to your own devices? I know that the story only follows a few missions, but I don't want the cinematic story at all. It takes away a lot of the atmosphere that I loved in the first game.

I'm not averse to having a tutorial for those who want it, but what I loved about the original game was you got plopped down then had to figure out what you were supposed to do yourself. There were no cinematic story bits or DRAMA! involved. Just you, your base, limited resources and an increasingly overwhelming alien threat.

Now I understand some people might like the story (mostly the console popamoles who can't play anything without looking at shiny cinematics), which is why I'm suggesting an optional freeplay mode not tied to any campaign or story. Luckily the modding scene seems pretty active, so I guess there's always the hope that someone might make a mod for this.

I think the story is good because it teaches you how to play the game. As an "extended tutorial" it is actually very effective because it gives you new concepts and suggests research paths to you in a well-paced manner, without completely holding your hand.

The problem is it doesn't go anywhere. That is the entire game. You can do it again, but harder, or you can do shitty multiplayer. That's it. Second wave or a free play mode really would have helped a lot if they had got it ready for release. Now my guess is they will put it out as DLC, lawl.

I think I decided what kinda bugs me about XCOM more than anything else. It's that it's too gamey. And the thing is, as a game, it's actually incredibly solidly designed. The dynamics of combat, the two-moves-per-turn system, the "you must choose one" missions, all that works really well in the sense that you have a very clearly defined set of rules to operate within. It's like moving pieces on a chess board - you learn and master the rules presented to you and you do better or worse based on how effectively you can use them.

The problem is that the original X-COM games were not really "gamey" in the same way. Rather I would liken them more to a simulation, with rules that weren't really structured around playing the game "right", but instead around offering options. The crazy/hilarious/weird/fun stuff that could happen as a result of those "open" rules is what made the original X-COM fun for me. It was less balanced and fine-tuned for sure, but it wasn't so much about doing what you're "supposed" to to win, and more to do with playing with the system the game took place in. That's also what made it far more replayable while the new game gets routine after you've done a game or two. It's a bit awkward a distinction to describe precisely, I'll have to think on it some more.

 

[Kitako]

Got a Sectopod teleport right on my support once, those sneaky mechs. God bless ghost armor.

You lied about endgame HP bloat on Impossible. There is none worth mentioning (I ran through an Impossible Ironman playthrough). 4 HP sectoids is the worst of it, mainly because you 3 dmg of standard rifles.

Here the hard data about HP bloat:
(Casual difficulty is called "Hard" in this file, Impossible is called "Casual")

BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_None, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Civilian, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Soldier, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=-1,iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Tank, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Sectoid, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Floater, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Thinman, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Muton, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=2, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Cyberdisc, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=4, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_SectoidCommander, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=4, iMobility=0,iWill=25)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_FloaterHeavy, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=2, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_MutonElite, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=10,iHP=0,iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Ethereal, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=25)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Chryssalid, iDamage=2,iCritHit=10, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Zombie, iDamage=2,iCritHit=10, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_MutonBerserker, iDamage=1,iCritHit=10, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Sectopod, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Drone, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=2, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_Outsider, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=10,iHP=2,iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_EtherealUber, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10, iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Hard=(eType=eChar_BattleScanner, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0, iHP=0,iMobility=0,iWill=0)

BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_None, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Civilian, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Soldier, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=-2, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Tank, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Sectoid, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=1, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Floater, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=2, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Thinman, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=2, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Muton, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=2, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Cyberdisc, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=4, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_SectoidCommander, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=4, iMobility=0,iWill=35)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_FloaterHeavy, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=4, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_MutonElite, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=20,iDefense=10,iHP=4,iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Ethereal, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=5, iMobility=0,iWill=35)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Chryssalid, iDamage=2,iCritHit=10,iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Zombie, iDamage=4,iCritHit=10,iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=4, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_MutonBerserker, iDamage=3,iCritHit=10,iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=5, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Sectopod, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Drone, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=10,iDefense=0,iHP=4, iMobility=0,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_Outsider, iDamage=0,iCritHit=10,iAim=20,iDefense=10,iHP=2,iMobility=5,iWill=0)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_EtherealUber, iDamage=0,iCritHit=20,iAim=10,iDefense=10,iHP=5,iMobility=0,iWill=10)
BalanceMods_Classic=(eType=eChar_BattleScanner, iDamage=0,iCritHit=0, iAim=0, iDefense=0,iHP=0, iMobility=0,iWill=0)

 

[Zewp]

The problem is that the original X-COM games were not really "gamey" in the same way. Rather I would liken them more to a simulation, with rules that weren't really structured around playing the game "right", but instead around offering options. The crazy/hilarious/weird/fun stuff that could happen as a result of those "open" rules is what made the original X-COM fun for me. It was less balanced and fine-tuned for sure, but it wasn't so much about doing what you're "supposed" to to win, and more to do with playing with the system the game took place in. That's also what made it far more replayable while the new game gets routine after you've done a game or two. It's a bit awkward a distinction to describe precisely, I'll have to think on it some more.

Nah, I understand exactly where you're coming from and I agree entirely. The original game allowed you full control over everything you wanted to do. You didn't have to choose which missions to do and which to drop, because if you had enough strike teams you could simply send a strike team to every mission area you wanted to, etc. The new Xcom isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but it's way too restricted compared to the previous games.

Luckily the modding scene should eventually get around to fixing all this.

 

[sea]

Are there even decent mod tools? I'm pretty sure just about everything everyone's done has been INI tweaks for the most part. I don't know if you can make drastic, fundamental changes to the game's rules.

 

[Zewp]

I dunno, I simply assumed there is. DarkOne generally doesn't start up sites for games that don't have adequate modding tools, and I saw there's an XcomNexus yesterday.

 

[Gord]

Yes, strange that it turned up so quickly. Maybe he just likes the game and hopes for modding tools.
The devs have not confirmed anything, afaik. All statements concerning modding support have been ambiguous at best.

 

[Kitako]

They won't give mod tools when they can sell armor recolor DLC for 5 jewgolds.

About mods, it's pretty easy to tweak the ini and that's that. Some people just started to uncompress and modify the upk files, meaning that something more elaborate may be in the future, but I really don't know about that. It doesn't really seem "user friendly".
Example: Remove Permanent Loss of Will

 

[Modron]

They won't give mod tools when they can sell armor recolor DLC for 5 jewgolds.

Sigh you're probably right in thinking that Firaxis will follow the Creative Assembly model. Glad to see DLC continue to squash proper expansions and mod tools; oh well, will not buy this pos until it hits twelve bucks.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

For some reason, I got a sudden urge to play X-COM Apocalypse. With the roadwar mod, of course. (I think I can't make K_Mod and Roadwar work together, or is that Apoc'd?)

It is interesting how the smaller-scale aproach works admirably compared to XCOM: Enemy Unknown forced small-scale approach. You can put as many troopers as your transport can handle (APC handles 12/14 without extra passager module), but it seems clear the game incentivates you to use less trooper to conserve your force so you can always have unhurt soldiers in reserve in case of base invasions/more alien attacks.

I'm playing in super-human. My game is on the second day of Week 2. I was doing well, last invasion before weekend was shot up on the skies and despite some mishaps, somehow they dropped NO aliens whatsoever in the city. Then week 2 arrives and Type 3 and 4 UFOs, combined with some deployment mistakes and a portal that dislocated far away meant that I had my ass handed to me. Didn't down one ship, aliens took down my Valkyrie and a Stormdog. Then it was two/three failed missions in a row. One where I lost because I set the stun grenade wrong and stunned my flying trooper along with the hyperworms (I thought gas didn't go up, but I was wrong), then had my other trooper slaughtered by Multiworms (how I hate those bloated things!). The other one was lost when, for some reason, Osiron went unfriendly to me, bungled a search and they went hostile, then I found the aliens and had my ass handed to me by 15 or so 'Hood Bruthas with heavy weaponry + aliens attacking me from everywhere at once at the same time, at least one trooper escaped from the massacre.

So my current situation: I got six or eight troopers left, low ammounts of craft, no more GLM missiles for my Stormdogs, no Valkyrie Interceptor, and not much money (22k or so). Also, Transtellar and Orion hate my gut. Also, a lot of other companies don't like me either. There are five or six factions being infiltrated by aliens, and one of them is 30% infiltrated. I'm afraid of going Cult Raiding because the extra points will make the aliens EVEN STRONGER next week. Did I mention the aliens LOOOVE going into adjacent buildings to infiltrate them, I'm getting 1-2 recruits per day and I'm researching Disrupters yet?

Did I also mention that this game doesn't cockblock the player from using ridiculous ammounts of explosives, but rather punishes him for it in intelligent ways (Collateral Damage makes factions angry at you)? I would't last a minute in this if I could't grenade or explode my way out of massive crowds of enemies.

Playing this game puts XCOM in proper perspective, let me tell you.

 

[sser]

You lied about endgame HP bloat on Impossible. There is none worth mentioning (I ran through an Impossible Ironman playthrough). 4 HP sectoids is the worst of it, mainly because you 3 dmg of standard rifles.

Keeping countries onboard is also not hard at all since you dont need more than 8. And yours 8 provide 1k of dough.
Even without Zomg's 3-sats-on-first-month build's, I launched only 1 sat in first month. Unexpectedly lost a Counsil mission... Irregularly lost Germany to a shot down sat the next month and lost Mehico to a "failed" terror mission cause I didnt save a single civilian cause I didnt know...
Ended up solving Panic with a doom rating of seven and the alien base in the reserve.

You suck.
Did you play Of Orcs and Men on Easy?
Of Orcs and Men playing on Hard, didnt spend a single attribute point. And approx 5 skill points on each character... Out of 20...
Holy shit, the corridors...

Right.

 

[Gozma]

Reinstalled to play imp ironman. Roguelike pride

first mission grand graveyard fuck yooooooo

Any mission with a roof you can get on without unleashing a million sectoid packs makes those first month impossible missions easy. The sectoids love to crowd up against the base of the building and overwatch while revealing their position with mind merges. Trigger sectoids, let them crowd around the building (have four guys point blank overwatch the closest ladder; sectoids do not have the AI to storm the roof en masse but they will often path over the roof to hop between cover spots just like your retarded soldiers do, so even if you miss they usually just jump down again) then throw grenades/drop down directly next to mind mergers to get 100% accuracy double kills. You can also overwatch shoot up patrols or mass fire at mind mergers that insist on turtling with +20 height aim bonus

Did the alien base at the end of april with carapace armor and only one laser rifle (no laser sniper/laser minigun) but with an alloy shiv, which is retardedly tougher than any soldier can be until titan armor. Got it damaged down to like 8 hp from 18 total in the april terror mission and it repaired in about 4 days in time for the base mission. Early shivs are incredibly powerful and they let you completely ignore weak human meat supports and assaults in favor of putting all xp onto heavies and snipers. Just having a character that you can allow a shot to be taken on (so you can do shit like use overwatch against alerted enemies) and know it won't die to a 9 point light plasma crit, won't panic, and won't cause anyone else to panic is huge

 

[sser]

I'm wondering, do you go the capture aliens-route or the laser-weapons research route?

For me, the worst map by far is the one that's on a sort of skyscraper/construction site. The only full cover available is a tiny notch of a corner from a shipping container and that's a full sprint away; everything else is half-cover. Without smoke grenades, I lose guys on that map every time.

 

[Gozma]

I actually worked out choreography for doing that map with 4 rookies, like on turn 1 move here and if this spawn shows up this guy moves here and throws a grenade etc. It just happened to be the one hard map I randomly started doing it with (just start an impossible non-ironman game and restart the mission over and over to see where the spawns/patrol timings are). There are other maps that I'd break down the same way if I cared enough but I don't. I was like, I'm not gonna do imp ironman if I can't beat every map and I don't want to do that shit again so forget it. But I eventually got the itch and this time I just started a couple of games and in my current game I happened to slip through a month 1 with good abusable maps, no instant death grand graveyard, and got two heavies and two promoted snipers which is all you need to turn it from an AI-abuse and map deconstruction game to an abuseable firepower game. Shivs seal it.

I did an early alien containment but I was already almost done with carapace armor when I got a floater (I pretty much never try to capture unless it's the last alien of the last pack of the map). I ended up only being able to afford two satellites so I just did the base mission to keep from losing more countries (lost four in march due to 1 satellite and a skipped bomb mission). But on the other hand I did get a sectoid researched to unlock the ability to research the outsider shard at all so it did pay off. I was also pretty lucky with extra engineers to get to 15 so I could build the skeleton key for the base, I got some like council request for scopes that gave 3-4 engineers right when I needed it.

 

[Infinitron]

sea article http://gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchw..._Didnt_Work_For_Me_Simulation_vs_Strategy.php

 

[Mangoose]

sea article http://gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchw..._Didnt_Work_For_Me_Simulation_vs_Strategy.php

I agree with the first (currently only) comment:

I'm surprised you didn't catch on to the fact that the Aliens play by entirely different rules than the players: they get a "free turn" when you first see or "aggro" them to move into cover. They also don't engage players or make tactical movements until "aggroed". Because they don't engage until you find them, the gamist strategy involves moving troops at an excruciatingly slow pace, only exposing new territory within your first unit's first movement, lest you aggro monsters you can't attack.

I think that pacing issue, far more than the class or specialization issue you described, hurt the game the most for me.

 

[Gord]

On the other hand, again using the most boring strategy possible is being declared the only way to play the game (typically "gamist").

Sure, you have to play it save and take some care not to move your team too far too fast.
But doing so could let you lose the mission pretty fast in the classics, too.
It's more about not dashing into all directions at once, not about moving only 3-4 fields at a time

Although there are "patroling" aliens, as well, only seemingly not many of them, compared to the stationary groups.

 

[Achilles]

Great article Eric!

 

[Zewp]

Also, it seems the game basically 'cheats' when you get closer to end-game content. At the start any aim percentage over 70% meant I was almost guaranteed a hit, whereas closer to the end unless it was over 90 there was a 50/50 chance I was going to miss. The aliens, on the other hand, rarely missed close to the end. Even when a shot seemed nearly impossible (all the way through two walls and while my unit was in full cover) to miss for the aliens. A really cheap way of increasing the difficulty, if you ask me; giving the aliens a better 'luck' rating while reducing the player's 'luck.'

 

[Zewp]

Also, this game is absolutely teeming with lazy design decisions. You can see the laziness everywhere, such as the horrendously stupid overwatch, or the absolutely rubbish and nonsensical panic system.

 

[Gozma]

Also, it seems the game basically 'cheats' when you get closer to end-game content. At the start any aim percentage over 70% meant I was almost guaranteed a hit, whereas closer to the end unless it was over 90 there was a 50/50 chance I was going to miss. The aliens, on the other hand, rarely missed close to the end. Even when a shot seemed nearly impossible (all the way through two walls and while my unit was in full cover) to miss for the aliens. A really cheap way of increasing the difficulty, if you ask me; giving the aliens a better 'luck' rating while reducing the player's 'luck.

...

Well played

Anyway, beat I/I. The +5 hitpoints on the berserkers (particularly since you can't set up guaranteed crits on them the way you can with regular mutons) and 16hp heavy floaters might count as "bloat". But it's not really like normal RPG bloat because it has tactical meaning; terror missions with a bunch of berserkers to chop down, plus their two muton bottoms, can get out of control in a hurry. There's more strategic pressure on you to get plasma snipers and full size plasma guns up and running and to keep your DPS characters healthy - I also transitioned away from squads with 2-3 heavies that plowed through floaters and thin men to use assaults just for the raw DPS you can get out of them. Plus I had several colonel heavies that had three rockets apiece so I didn't need spares. The bigger HP actually makes some enemies easier - for example muton elites can't kill a mind controlled muton elite in one crit due to the HP bonus on impossible, so one mind control can actually tie up both the other elites in the spawn for a turn.

I never had a single support on the squad the entire game. In the beginning I'd rotate them out for rookies, then it was heavies+snipers+shiv, then assaults+1 heavy+snipers after titan armor and combat drugs made the shiv obsolete.

 

[sea]

Also, it seems the game basically 'cheats' when you get closer to end-game content. At the start any aim percentage over 70% meant I was almost guaranteed a hit, whereas closer to the end unless it was over 90 there was a 50/50 chance I was going to miss. The aliens, on the other hand, rarely missed close to the end. Even when a shot seemed nearly impossible (all the way through two walls and while my unit was in full cover) to miss for the aliens. A really cheap way of increasing the difficulty, if you ask me; giving the aliens a better 'luck' rating while reducing the player's 'luck.'

To be fair, it's impossible to prove that is cheating. Random seeds gonna seed, gambler's fallacy, etc.

 

[Zewp]

Yeah, I guess there's no way to prove it, but I'm pretty sure it's what's happening. Either that or the aliens' aim stat just improve tremendously the further you play. I played through the game once on Regular Ironman, and thought it might just have been rotten luck on my part. I'm doing a Classic Ironman playthrough now, and it feels like pretty much the exact same thing is happening. I could still just be having totally rotten luck, but considering some of the other crappy design decisions I wouldn't be surprised if this is true.

Also, to clarify what I mean about the design decisions; It's pretty retarded that you can have four people on overwatch and when a single alien peeps around a corner all four shoot at him at the same time, leaving nobody left to shoot when the alien's three buddies follow. They should let the soldiers fire one-by-one according to who has the highest aim percentage. If a soldier manages to kill an alien, any soldiers who haven't taken a shot yet go back into overwatch and wait for the next alien.

The panic is also poorly done. It simply does not make sense that a soldier panics and then swivels 180 degrees and shoots his buddy in the face. When panicking, soldiers should shoot freely all over the place like in the original games.

And then we've got the camera. Jesus Christ the amount of times this game wrenches camera control away from you for trivial shit is annoying as fuck. It wrenches control away whenever aliens appear, if you're on a rescue mission it wrenches control away whenever the person you're supposed to be rescuing has some bullshit line he recites, whenever you rescue a guy it wrenches control away to show you the extraction zone (thank you, I know where it is because it's always in the same fucking place), it wrenches control away to show you exploding cars, etc. I almost want to kill myself everytime I'm forced to wait 5 - 10 seconds for the game to give me control of my camera back.

 

[JrK]

It's more that your soldiers, rookie or otherwise, have less than 100% hit chance when shooting at a critter in the open 10 meters away from them that bugs me. The rest is just crying about probabilities being random.

True randomness isn't 'fair' btw.

 

[Black]

In X-Com it was impossible to miss a real point blank shot, simply because the bullets didn't have anywhere to go but the target.
In this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=T-cBJc38O_k#t=234s