Hardest encounters in RPGs

[Cryomancer]

The only unfair thing in ToEE was Fire Salamanders being able to shoot someone regardless of range.

In reality, spells on P&P has way higher range and salamanders can hit you very far away just like you can hit then very far away. Fireball's range is
Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireball.htm

And yes, I don't like gimmicky nor mmoish fights. The final battle of Dark Sun : Shattered Lands is insanely hard, I had to lower the difficulty and try many times with min maxed characters and still had 2 of my characters dead but is hard in a more NATURAL WAY. Except by the lv cap. I always prefer soft caps over hard caps in any aspect.

with mechanics that you have to follow. Feels very artificial and limiting, as opposed to the more natural & clever examples from IWD that Lilura was showing.

Yep. IWD has one of the best encounter designs ever. I just don't get Pillars. I mean

• The encounter design is extremely inferior to IWD 1/2
• The character building too
• The keep is extremely inferior to nwn2's crossroad keep
• Character building is trash with wizards and clerics having to go do gym, so they can heal more and throw hotter fireballs. Might somehow also affects a arquebus damage too.
• The spells are lackluster
• Magical items are trash if compared to nwn2 magical items
• Dialogs are ok but trash if compared to FNV

In other words, everything that Pillars did, Obsidian did better in the past.

 

[Ninjerk]

The only unfair thing in ToEE was Fire Salamanders being able to shoot someone regardless of range.

In reality, spells on P&P has way higher range and salamanders can hit you very far away just like you can hit then very far away. Fireball's range is
Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireball.htm

And yes, I don't like gimmicky nor mmoish fights. The final battle of Dark Sun : Shattered Lands is insanely hard, I had to lower the difficulty and try many times with min maxed characters and still had 2 of my characters dead but is hard in a more NATURAL WAY. Except by the lv cap. I always prefer soft caps over hard caps in any aspect.

with mechanics that you have to follow. Feels very artificial and limiting, as opposed to the more natural & clever examples from IWD that Lilura was showing.

Yep. IWD has one of the best encounter designs ever. I just don't get Pillars. I mean

• The encounter design is extremely inferior to IWD 1/2
• The character building too
• The keep is extremely inferior to nwn2's crossroad keep
• Character building is trash with wizards and clerics having to go do gym, so they can heal more and throw hotter fireballs. Might somehow also affects a arquebus damage too.
• The spells are lackluster
• Magical items are trash if compared to nwn2 magical items
• Dialogs are ok but trash if compared to FNV

In other words, everything that Pillars did, Obsidian did better in the past.

This latter part you have here makes me want to take a nostalgic crawl through Josh Sawyer and Obsidian's pre-release game design philosophy updates/videos. No hard counters, no dump stats, perfect linear scaling for attributes, etc., etc.

 

[jackofshadows]

I rarely put END above five, there's much better stats for my liking.

Like what? Take a look at my screenshot one more time:

For PE you can take mentas or even take an extra perk (+2 for ranged) but that doesn't really matter within navarro/rig enviroment. Int = more skills but thc will be the same anyway. So, charisma? :D

 

[Butter]

The fuck are you doing with 1 CHA in Fallout 2?

 

[jackofshadows]

Killing the bad guys?

 

[Egosphere]

these 2 fuckers

 

[Ol' Willy]

For PE you can take mentas or even take an extra perk (+2 for ranged) but that doesn't really matter within navarro/rig enviroment. Int = more skills but thc will be the same anyway. So, charisma?

Classic 10 PER 10 AG 10 INT. Other variants include more STR for more loot/ammo/heavier weapons/, or more LUCK for crits and stuff (I usually dump it). Also, I usually don't use "Gain Stat" perks, so my options are more limited.

 

[jackofshadows]

For PE you can take mentas or even take an extra perk (+2 for ranged) but that doesn't really matter within navarro/rig enviroment. Int = more skills but thc will be the same anyway. So, charisma?

Classic 10 PER 10 AG 10 INT. Other variants include more STR for more loot/ammo/heavier weapons/, or more LUCK for crits and stuff (I usually dump it). Also, I usually don't use "Gain Stat" perks, so my options are more limited.

But again, why 10 INT? As for 10 PER like I said: simply mentas; it's superfluous. 10 AG is kinda mandatory, unfortunately.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Classic 10 PER 10 AG 10 INT. Other variants include more STR for more loot/ammo/heavier weapons/, or more LUCK for crits and stuff (I usually dump it). Also, I usually don't use "Gain Stat" perks, so my options are more limited.

Or just 8 PE, 10 AGI, 7-8 INT which works fine without crippling your guy too much (No gifted perk)

 

[Ol' Willy]

But again, why 10 INT? As for 10 PER like I said: simply mentas; it's superfluous. 10 AG is kinda mandatory, unfortunately.

10 INT for skillpoints (with Gifted, that is) and statchecks. Without Gifted 7-8 INT is enough. 10 PER because I don't like to rely on doping for my stats, also: sequence and placing in random encounters.

 

[Erikkolai]

This may have been my hardest encounter. Especially because I knew I didn't have any save games from before I allowed him to live.

 

[laclongquan]

There are two extreme for Endurance.

YOu can go the majority way and keep it down to 4-5. Which HP is 99- waaaay up to level 16. Meaning ONE fail roll in stealing and the hostile will put a burst through your carcass.

Or you can scrimp and save and invest END to 7 or 8. You will have 100+ HP pretty early in the game and it feel, I dont know, easier. At least, if you eat TWO critical burst in one turn you dont have to die right away.

I like more stat elsewhere so I generally choose END 5. But in my Luck2 runs I can spare more for END8 and it's bloody different.
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As for INT, I always keep it INT9 for upto SF and do the op there to push it to 10. The tradeoff is pretty acceptable and we can spare one point to invest somewhere else. Seriously INT 10 at start mean a gain of around 30 skill points (upto 15-16th lvl at SF) which is not that good compare to one point on Endurance from start. or Agility. Or Strength (because carryweight is important).

Charisma 7 always, so that Mirror Shades and two Mentats keep it at 10 and get a full party.

 

[oldmanpaco]

There are two extreme for Endurance.

YOu can go the majority way and keep it down to 4-5. Which HP is 99- waaaay up to level 16. Meaning ONE fail roll in stealing and the hostile will put a burst through your carcass.

Or you can scrimp and save and invest END to 7 or 8. You will have 100+ HP pretty early in the game and it feel, I dont know, easier. At least, if you eat TWO critical burst in one turn you dont have to die right away.

I like more stat elsewhere so I generally choose END 5. But in my Luck2 runs I can spare more for END8 and it's bloody different.
======
As for INT, I always keep it INT9 for upto SF and do the op there to push it to 10. The tradeoff is pretty acceptable and we can spare one point to invest somewhere else. Seriously INT 10 at start mean a gain of around 30 skill points (upto 15-16th lvl at SF) which is not that good compare to one point on Endurance from start. or Agility. Or Strength (because carryweight is important).

Charisma 7 always, so that Mirror Shades and two Mentats keep it at 10 and get a full party.

High INT/CHR is the way to play FO2. God knows you re not playing it for the combat.

 

[Daemongar]

Level 8 of the Ultima 4 Abyss when you are 11 years old.

1) First time I walked out the wrong door in that 9 room path and rage quit.
2) Got to the end but didn't have Katrina because fuck that useless bitch. Also I had never gone straight down when entering Magnincia so I never found her. After I did she spent the entire trip back down the abyss dead (she was lvl 1)and then I resurrected her right before the end.
3 & 4) Spelling some shit wrong like compassion or Valor - spelling was not my strong suite.

Hey, I made it all the way to the bottom of the abyss, had all my damn notes, it asked me for the word - like the three words combined of truth, love, and courage (AMOVERCOR - this is from ancient memory - am I close, anyone?) - and I typed it in I suppose the wrong word. I was back at the entrance. That was pretty brutal, but no less brutal than some other things in the game. With that in mind, I headed in again but this time it only took me 3 hours to get to the bottom. Finished it and am glad I did. I'm an Avatar and I suppose you aren't.

The most difficult non-fight was flying that f-ing Balloon in Ultima IV to get to the shrine or stone. That was just *evil*!

 

[oldmanpaco]

Level 8 of the Ultima 4 Abyss when you are 11 years old.

1) First time I walked out the wrong door in that 9 room path and rage quit.
2) Got to the end but didn't have Katrina because fuck that useless bitch. Also I had never gone straight down when entering Magnincia so I never found her. After I did she spent the entire trip back down the abyss dead (she was lvl 1)and then I resurrected her right before the end.
3 & 4) Spelling some shit wrong like compassion or Valor - spelling was not my strong suite.

Hey, I made it all the way to the bottom of the abyss, had all my damn notes, it asked me for the word - like the three words combined of truth, love, and courage (AMOVERCOR - this is from ancient memory - am I close, anyone?) - and I typed it in I suppose the wrong word. I was back at the entrance. That was pretty brutal, but no less brutal than some other things in the game. With that in mind, I headed in again but this time it only took me 3 hours to get to the bottom. Finished it and am glad I did. I'm an Avatar and I suppose you aren't.

The most difficult non-fight was flying that f-ing Balloon in Ultima IV to get to the shrine or stone. That was just *evil*!

Fuck you I finished it on decent 5 with a dead Katrina!

And its VerAmoCor you pleb.

 

[Piotrovitz]

One of the hardest fights I can remember was the BG1 Bandit Camp with SCS - Better Calls For Help. Pretty much the entire camp comes at you in waves (including the mini-bosses in the tents) which makes more sense than going to each cluster of bandits and wiping them out. SCS also makes the bandits and the magic users with them smarter so it was loads of fun. One of the few times you really need to use all the crap in you inventory (wands, scrolls, potions) and plan your assault.

Yeah, this was a hard one, and probably the only tough fight in BG1 SCS.

Best way to handle it is to aggro the nearest bandits, and once the rest are rushing over you can nuke them with 2-3 fireballs from wands/spells while they're still behind fog of war, which should soften up the bosses and outright kill the regular ones. Not sure if this is considered cheese, but winning this battle any other way is tough as fuck and it took me dozens of reloads.

 

[Ol' Willy]

or Agility

10 AG is life. Life is 10 AG.
Two Action Boys and Two Bonus Moves and we done.

Charisma 7 always, so that Mirror Shades and two Mentats keep it at 10 and get a full party.

I always dump CHA, from 1 to 3 max. Party? Who needs party? Lone wolf is always alone.

 

[laclongquan]

6 AGI is a good reasonable all-applicable build. Eat two buffout and you get to AGI 10. PLus with 6AGI we can do all sort of trick with AGI-reduce bad effect of Buffout. Beyond 6 will not be as effective.

Bonus Move is good yeah. At least one, and when in higher than 24 level another one.

And what kind of minmaxer would dump Charisma in Fallout 2?

 

[jackofshadows]

High INT/CHR is the way to play FO2. God knows you re not playing it for the combat.

There's no *right* way to play FO2. That's why the game is great, among other things. After several playthroughs, it's a matter of preference, basically. I'm aware that many like to play with full party and tons of skills to distribute but it's not for me. Companions are not entirely worthless, they can carry loot I guess but they're not worth the babysitting in combat. Also, same sprites with different armor is immersion-breaker to me.

But even companions aside, what high CHAR and INT for? Once you explore all the dialogues and checks there's no point in replaying it. Same goes for stealth approach. Replaying that would feel like a speedrun. As for INT, there's not much useful skills to pump, really.

Even if FO2 is not the best game to exercise with min-maxing and combat it's a fun diversion to me. Anyway, the original point was that Lilura pointed out that FO1 keeping lethality even for minmaxed character. Not really. But design is very good in that regard, yes. For low END char one crit from minigun-mutie and that's it.

And what kind of minmaxer would dump Charisma in Fallout 2?

Why would you want hight Charisma if you're not going to have a full party? It's the most useless stat for minmaxer, literally.

 

[Lilura]

Yeah, this was a hard one, and probably the only tough fight in BG1 SCS.

Sorry, but it's not hard at all. I solo'd BG SCS with a barbrager. Try soloing vanilla BG with a Fighter: 10 times harder.

Also, most of what has been said on Fallout and Fallout 2 ITT is half-right or outright wrong. Some of you have unwittingly exposed yourselves as modders; at worst, cheaters.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Couldn't care less even if you solo'd it with a bard.

And what the fuck is barbrager?

 

[Ol' Willy]

Also, most of what has been said on Fallout and Fallout 2 ITT is half-right or outright wrong. Some of you have unwittingly exposed yourselves as modders; at worst, cheaters.

Examples, then. Your butthurt ratings don't paint you as an expert, but more as a pretentious loudmouth.

Back in the time I played Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 not even modded, unpatched. Straight out of the CD, no internet, no guides, mods, patches and stuff.

 

[Lilura]

And what the fuck is barbrager?

It's basically saying that Barbarian or Berserker can easily solo BG in BG2 engine. Even with SCS. Other classes that original BG wasn't designed for, too.

 

[Piotrovitz]

That's why even if you play BG1 EE, even just for QoL improvments, you never use BG2 kits/classess, as it breaks the shit out of the game balance.

Same for IWD EE and rolling with, say, sorcerer.

 

[laclongquan]

Too high stat number for nongifted build