Is Dark Souls overrated?

[luj1]

I dunno... I have no doubts that the first DS is a great game, even though it's not my cup of tea. The problem is cramming it into RPG lists and calling it something it's not.

 

[MajorMace]

The problem is cramming it into RPG lists and calling it something it's not.

Which is not specific to dark souls though.

 

[Morality Games]

Is Dark Souls overrated?

No.

Whether or not it is *really* an RPG, Dark Souls is pretty much what video games were supposed to become until the PlayStation/N64/Xbox era when something went horribly wrong.

 

[Machocruz]

Everything that is liked by a certain number of people is overrated because a lot of people are overly emotional and thus hyperbolic about things they like or dislike. I find emotional people insufferable and attempts at level-headed discussion with them are futile at best. And as far as forums and the media go, we tend to laser focus on a few games at the expense of many others worthy of attention and examination, which only fuels the "overrated" feeling of a particular game.

Demon's Souls was the standout game on the PS3 afaic, and DkS improved on it in some areas. Both became two of the most played games in my personal history. I liked their weighty, methodical combat (relative to games of the time), the art direction and tone. And that's as far as the romance goes. I don't care about the clones and wannabes, because I've had my fill of their source, and being that the designers of such are not From, with From's history, experience, culture, or voice, they won't capture the intangibles that really made the games stand out.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's so popular it has to be overrated

Nope, it's not, because you seem to have forgotten the state of modern gayming.

What makes Dark Souls stand out so much is that it was a return to form for a medium that's been decaying for two decades.

Name a comparible series and you'll be propably thinking of something that was released at least a decade prior.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Comparable in what sense?
The difficulty? The genre? What?

 

[MajorMace]

It's so popular it has to be overrated

Nope, it's not, because you seem to have forgotten the state of modern gayming.

What makes Dark Souls stand out so much is that it was a return to form for a medium that's been decaying for two decades.

Name a comparible series and you'll be propably thinking of sonething that was released at least a decade prior.

I agree, still Dark Souls is a very very popular series, and as stated above this often leads to hyperbole and exaggeration, in which I myself indulge quite often.
I personnaly praise Dark Souls so much that I'm among those who overrate it. But I do it for the reasons you mention, going from Uncharted to Demon's Souls / Dark Souls gives a feeling of salvation.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Comparable in what sense?
The difficulty? The genre? What?

Greatness.

To wit: the Thief series. No comparison in terms of genre or style or anything else besides but it is comparible in terms of a series i enjoyed just as much.

Draw a list of games you enjoyed as much as Dark Souls irrespective of genre and see how many were released in mordern times are at least between DS/DS1 and BB/DS3.

A tasty meal is a treat under any circumstance but a tasty meal after eating shit for a while is all the more appetizing.

Back in the 90s it was harder to isolate a series so much since timeless masterpieces were released every other month.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Draw a list of games you enjoyed as much as Dark Souls irrespective of genre and see how many were released in mordern times are at least between DS/DS1 and BB/DS3.

A list of objectively good games released between 2010 and 2020 that I've enjoyed at least as much Dark Souls?
Yeah that's kinda easy

-Fallout: New Vegas
-S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat
-Mount & Blade: Warband
-Super Meat Boy
-EYE
-Portal 2
-Witcher 2
-Dragon's Dogma
-Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown
-Max Payne 3
-Volgarr the Viking
-MGR
-DK Tropical Freeze
-Shovel Knight
-Alien Isolation
-MGS 5 Phantom Pain
-Hitman 2016
-Cuphead
-Factorio
-NIOH
-Breath of the Wild
-Hollow Knight
-Sonic Mania
-Rain World
-Grimoire (2017 was a GOOD year)
-Monster Hunter World
-DUSK
-Subnautica
-ATOM
-Mega Man 11
-Ghost of a Tale
-REmake 2
-DMC 5 (this one being easily top 5 best hack n' slash games released, so that alone would've filled your greatness quota)
-Outward
-nuDOOM Eternal
-Bayonetta (yea ok technically it came out 2009, but that was for japan, for the west it came out in 2010 and the PC version in 2017)

And this is only from the games I've played this decade
There was alot more genuinely great games released over the past 10 years, which I've yet to try
Specially in the indie scene which exploded this decade
Games like: spelunky, salt & sanctuary, kcd, sunless sky, kenshi, w40k mechanicus, bloodstained, legionary's life, stardew valley, darkwood, Pathologic 2 (which I am sure is right up your pseudo-philosophical ass)

 

[Morality Games]

Draw a list of games you enjoyed as much as Dark Souls irrespective of genre and see how many were released in mordern times are at least between DS/DS1 and BB/DS3.

A list of objectively good games released between 2010 and 2020 that I've enjoyed at least as much Dark Souls?
Yeah that's kinda easy

-Fallout: New Vegas
-S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat
-Mount & Blade: Warband
-Super Meat Boy
-EYE
-Portal 2
-Witcher 2
-Dragon's Dogma
-Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown
-Max Payne 3
-Volgarr the Viking
-MGR
-DK Tropical Freeze
-Shovel Knight
-Alien Isolation
-MGS 5 Phantom Pain
-Hitman 2016
-Cuphead
-Factorio
-NIOH
-Breath of the Wild
-Hollow Knight
-Sonic Mania
-Rain World
-Grimoire (2017 was a GOOD year)
-Monster Hunter World
-DUSK
-Subnautica
-ATOM
-Mega Man 11
-Ghost of a Tale
-REmake 2
-DMC 5 (this one being easily top 5 best hack n' slash games released, so that alone would've filled your greatness quota)
-Outward
-nuDOOM Eternal
-Bayonetta (yea ok technically it came out 2009, but that was for japan, for the west it came out in 2010 and the PC version in 2017)

And this is only from the games I've played this decade
There was alot more genuinely great games released over the past 10 years, which I've yet to try
Specially in the indie scene which exploded this decade
Games like: spelunky, salt & sanctuary, kcd, sunless sky, kenshi, w40k mechanicus, bloodstained, legionary's life, stardew valley, darkwood, Pathologic 2 (which I am sure is right up your pseudo-philosophical ass)

Most of those games are good, but they're not really what video games are supposed to be.

Too much cinematic influence from people who think they can direct movies, too much bad writing from people who think they can write stories.

Almost everything about a true video game's story can be told in the visual design, the scenery, the level design, and the game play.

Example, you can show whether an enemy boss has pretensions of nobility or honor because he doesn't attack the player character while their back is turned or while they are getting up after an attack.

In other "games", there would be a minimum 10-minute cut scene where the enemy boss establishes he is honorable because of the things he says or does in cinematic cut scenes.

In addition, a lot of those only exist (like Hollow Knight) because Dark Souls established the market was full of people who just wanted games to be games again.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I am assuming that you're talking the games such as max payne, portal 2, dmc, bayonetta, mgs, etc...
The things is (MGS notwithstanding) those are more linear experiences, their gameplay focuses on a very particular thing
And in those situations a more "cinematic" approach to storytelling is fine as long as it doesn't take from the gameplay, and in fact in will even give character to the game

Seriously, do you think Thief would be a better off without it's fmv's?
Do you think Max Payne would have the same atmosphere without Max's narration?
Or that DMC would have the same charm without those cinematics of Dante's whacky shenanigans?

In addition, a lot of those only exist because Dark Souls established the market was full of people who just wanted games to be games again.

Oh c'mon man that is kinda overrating DS and it's influence
What is the proof for this?

 

[Lyric Suite]

Max Payne 3 lmao.

The vast majority on that list falls into the good for what it is at best.

Nu-gayming sucks.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Oh what's this?
No arguments to back up those big boy claims.
And a post that essentially reads like a "no u" reply
You're losing your edge old man

This is specially pathetic considering that not only you didn't play most of those games but also some of them you probably even outright refuse to give a try, because of whatever autistic vibes you get from their cover art

 

[Lhynn]

You're losing your edge old man

We all are. Looking at my reply at the start of the thread i wish i could brofist it. Its all so tiresome now.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

It has caused a great damage.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Oh what's this?
No arguments to back up those big boy claims.
And a post that essentially reads like a "no u" reply
You're losing your edge old man

It's specially pathetic when you take into consideration you did not play most of those games and probably someone you even outright refuse to give a try because of whatever autistic vibes you got from their cover art

All i know is that my dick was shriveling as i was going through your list, so i lost all motivation to mount up any reply.

 

[CyberWhale]

It has caused a great damage.

On the contrary. Despite a couple of failed Souls clones that some indie studios are trying to churn out, most games aren't actually influenced by the Souls series enough. Witcher 2/3 are the best example, they're trying to copy/paste Souls combat only on the surface, without understanding the underlying mechancis that make the former so great in the first place.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Max Payne 3 lmao.

I was almost crying about how bad and nonsensical the story was and how much I don't care about the characters.
Decent shooter though, also favela level and NY flashback were superbly designed.

All i know is that my dick was shriveling as i was going through your list

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Witcher 2/3 are the best example, they're trying to copy/paste Souls combat only on the surface, without understanding the underlying mechancis that make the former so great in the first place.

The real joke here being that you actually believe that Dark Souls combat is great

All i know is that my dick was shriveling as i was going through your list

That's most likely due to your erectile dysfunction

 

[CyberWhale]

Considering the shit list you've provided above, I think that's one of the best compliments it ever received.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Witcher 2/3 are the best example, they're trying to copy/paste Souls combat only on the surface, without understanding the underlying mechancis that make the former so great in the first place.

The real joke here being that you actually believe that Dark Souls combat is great

Yes, it is. Why?

 

[Lyric Suite]

It has caused a great damage.

On the contrary. Despite a couple of failed Souls clones that some indie studios are trying to churn out, most games aren't actually influenced by the Souls series enough. Witcher 2/3 are the best example, they're trying to copy/paste Souls combat only on the surface, without understanding the underlying mechancis that make the former so great in the first place.

They don't understand them because faggot modern devs forgot what games are supposed to be after buying into the muh story faggotry bullshit, which also translates into fluff and LARPing passing off as gameplay. Quick time shit during combat, take downs, press a button awesome and all that inane shit.

The Japanese suffered from veering towards the opposite extreme, by defining games only in terms of arcade entertainment but that unilateral approach is actually paying off now since at least they still excell at something.

 

[Lyric Suite]

you actually believe that Dark Souls combat is great

 

[Multidirectional]

Do you think Max Payne would have the same atmosphere without Max's narration?

In case of Max Payne 3 it certainly wasn't improved by it, thanks to Rockstar turning him into a pathetic crybaby who just can't ever shut the fuck up. And while that game did have enjoyable shooting it was also constantly interrupted by endless cutscenes most of which you cannot even skip. You literally spend about as much time watching cutscenes as you are actually playing the fucking game. I will probably keep replaying Max Payne 1/2 for as long as I'm playing video games, Max Payne 3 will be forgotten.

Or that DMC would have the same charm without those cinematics of Dante's whacky shenanigans?

I could definitely live without retarded DMC cutscenes, I enjoy these games for gameplay and gameplay only.
I haven't played all of the games on your list, most of those that I've played are solid but the mere thought of somebody enjoying Max Payne 3 and Witcher 2 as much as Dark Souls makes me cringe.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Why?

I've talked about this in other threads
While Dark Souls combat ain't bad it also isn't good
It's decent, it gets the job done and can be enjoyable
But it also doesn't have anything substancial to it, nothing to make it really engaging

It boils down to the fact that there's really nothing to learn and master in Dark Souls combat
There's no meaningful skill ceiling (something every game with action mechanics should have)

The biggest difference between weapons are their stats, when it comes to the actions they allow you to perform DS is very lacking
Aside from the stats, there's almost no difference between playing with a straigh sword or curved, or between axes and hammers
And while you can say that yes DS is an RPG so stats have to matter, you can't forget it's an ARPG, the gameplay can't skimp out on the action mechanics
Take Nioh (a game that I put on the list), the stats do impact your performance and not a little, but the type of weapon you use and the moves you do with them are even more vast in both distinctions and effects
Your playstyle truly changes when you make those decisions

And speaking of the actions themselves
In Dark Souls you're limited to either the light attack or the heavy attack (and you have the fact that heavy attacks are a bit useless)
While practical, it lacks variety and doesn't add a whole lot of challenge making it not near as enganging - the fact that all weapons of the same type will execute the same animations/moves doesn't help in any regard
Now you take a game like Severance, Nioh, God Hand, DMC, etc... and you easily see the difference
In then you have to constantly assess your situation to determine what is the best course of action, what is the best move to perform
Because in those games your moves actually have distinct properties, they have purpose behind them other than making damage

DS is pretty much just a foundation for a combat system, a solid foundation but just a foundation none the less, barren of any other structure that builds up on it, to offer a truly engaging combat experience

And the fact that everyone, including From, thinks otherwise is what fucking up the every From game past DS2
What made these games special was the atmosphere, level design, world building, exploration and the fact they respected the player to figure out things for themselves
The combat, while enjoyable, wasn't the focus of the experience
But now because every pleb that hasn't played Ninja Gaiden, memed up Dark Souls combat difficulty to bullshit levels, those qualities that made this series great are going away with each new title