Fallout Is Fallout: New Vegas a worthy Fallout game?

[Orobis]

ghosts, Scientologists, kung-fu towns and casino-whore-junkie theme parks. That's what real Fallout is about.

Tom Cruise, Elton John jokes, endless toilet humor and pop culture references. Awesome flavor and great writing.

The story's good, the characters are good, it has lots of options and content, etc. Combat has always been a weak spot in the series

This. (I assume Somberlain was being sarcastic)

The writing in FO2 is fucking childish and try hard compared to NV. Using the excuse "NV is shit/inferior to FO2 cause of trashbyro engine" is a cop out.

FO1>NV>FO2

 

[Roqua]

It is a spinoff of the real fallout games. Is that Buffy whatever spinoff a worthy Buffy Series? No, because it isn't Buffy, it is a spinoff of Buffy. I wish people could be less retarded here and think critically about pretty much anything. If you like something doesn't mean you have to be blind to logic or reason.

Could Obsidian have hired Tim Cain to give their spinoff game credibility and make it a real fallout? Yes, but they didn't. They chose to make a game with the same meaningless chargen, and same meaningless chardev in the same shitty spirit of the Bethesda Fallout spin-offs. Is NV closer to FO3 or the real fallouts? FO3 by a mile. So it is actually a FO3 spinoff and not even a real Fallout spinoff.

I'd bet my ballsack that Tim Cain would have ensured that stats mattered and did something, and chardev also did something and mattered. And he would have made the game good. And I'd bet my ballsack and penis he wouldn't allow some travesty console UI to ship on pc games and it would have a working, functional pc GUI and hotkeys and all the whole shebang.

Lastly, I hate you monkey savages so much it hurts.

Would you say the problem is poor execution, or that it is a 3D game? In other words: would you think it is possible to have a 3D Fallout game that lives up to the originals, or isometric (or any other perspective that's better fit for an RPG, based on dicerolls) is a deal breaker for you?

What is a deal breaker for me is mechanics and spirit. I do not the Diablo games, but I respect Diablo 3 for being isometric. No one saw that coming and it kind of paves the way for other games to throw off the 3d yolk of stupid that has been forced on us for over a decade.

By mechanics I mean does it model the mechanics of the orginal, or enhance them, but not lower the standards or strip them or ignore them? No, chargen is 100% meaningless in all the fake FO spinoffs I played. Chardev is the same. Both were huge deals dramatically impacting both real FOs. Both real FOs were TB. There are a million thinsg like this. If Diablo 4 was made by Irontower and was TB would you consider it a worthy successor or a spinoff? What Bethesda has done is basically made Diablo into a first person, full 3d TB, party based crpg with all the crpg traditions and sensibilities that Diablo isn't know for. That is not worthy of a continuation of the series.

By spirit I have two stipulations. If you are going to have the audacity to call a game a Fallout game and the creator and mastermind of the series is not just alive and kicking, but young, handsome, a game design genius, and basically the greatest person alive why would you not hire him? I'm sure he would love lead designer or whatever the title is called salary at the Bethesda corporation. Since FO is and always will be his, he can do whatever he wants with it. He can make it a detective noire set in WW1 with alien rapists and giant penis bombs and no one can really complain that he doesn't have the right.

OR - if you are going to buy the IP at least have the respect to stick to the spirit of the originals. This would mean if someone makes Diablo 4 it should be an isometric view arpg with focus on looting and random dungeons or whatever Diablo is known for. This also means if you are making FO3 you make it mechanically and spiritually significant to the real ones.

Star Wars episode 7 was by someone not George Lucas. Imagine if he made a movie so different than what Lucas has established Star Wars to be, but loosely based on his universe but was all crazy and made no sense and was aimed at toddlers and was more like of those Baby Einstein videos than a Star Wars movie, would that be worthy?

What we have is people who love Baby Einstein saying yes it is worthy. Well, fuck you guys. I could love Baby Einstein and still think a Star Wars baby Einstein movie called Episode 7 is still not really episode 7.

Diablo 3 isn't isometric, you fucktard. It's 3D which makes it shit which is the exact opposite of what you just wrote. Fucking cucked retard.

Btw FNV isn't a worthy Fallout game because as opposed to Fallout 1, it's barely fucking playable because of the shit Gamebryo engine.

Fixed camera from a slanted bird's eye angle then. Whatever its called. I don't give a shit, everyone knew what I meant. And I do not know what this word cuck is. I do know a word cuckold that I think stupid people are trying to use but failing every time somehow. It is a simple word.

 

[Roqua]

By mechanics I mean does it model the mechanics of the orginal, or enhance them, but not lower the standards or strip them or ignore them? No, chargen is 100% meaningless in all the fake FO spinoffs I played.

Yep, it's greatly dumbed down in terms of mechanics. Skill-checks based on random virtual dice rolls added to character's skill have been replaced by consoletardeous mechanics instead - there are hard skill thresholds for science or lockpick for instance, when you have to undergo minigame in order to open lock or hack terminal after reaching the skill threshold. Unlike in the original Fallout, the game doesn't check the character's skill and luck anymore in order to open lock or hack terminal, but relies on player's nimble fingers instead. This is not true RPG mechanics at all.

It is good to know at least one person here besides me is not nearly as retarded as the rest of the monkeys on here.

 

[pippin]

We should not forget to mention that it is possible to totally avoid combat in New Vegas
Or at least confront the final bosses in ways that don't involve directly fighting them.

 

[Sranchammer]

Fallout 2 is like Bill Clinton's brother- fun but best to ignore he exists.

 

[Chris Avellone]

F2 was a managerial mishandled mess, both in general production and design-wise (inc. aesthetics).

As I've said, it's clearly a case where a Creative Lead would have been a good idea. Whenever I think of "old Fallout," I only consider F1, and if F2 contradicts it, I ignore F2.

Mozg: Theme Vaults were not my idea, they were Tim Cain's, and only revealed when F2 started production. That said, I don't disagree with them, and I think it made Vaults more interesting, so feel free to blame me anyway.

 

[Mozg]

Imagine how much less cloying it would be to explore dead vaults that do environmental storytelling about the stories of how they opened up, how they functioned once opened, and how they died instead of their dumb gimmick that incidentally makes the pre-war US into a silly cartoon.

Anyway Tim Cain def wouldn't have thought of that because it's dumb. How dare you sir.

 

[Lhynn]

Anyway Tim Cain def wouldn't have thought of that because it's dumb.

Its actually a clever twist if done properly, it feeds on the sense of paranoia present before the war, so its very strong thematically speaking.
The cruel and sometimes outright violent behavior of the citizens before the war that is hinted in all the games through the series.
Does it make sense that everyone is out to get you? Nope, but it is a fun idea to explore regardless.

The problem came with dumb execution, and that was mostly of bethesdas side with fallout 3 very stupid vaults.

 

[pippin]

Imagine how much less cloying it would be to explore dead vaults that do environmental storytelling about the stories of how they opened up, how they functioned once opened, and how they died instead of their dumb gimmick that incidentally makes the pre-war US into a silly cartoon.

Wasn't the Vault with the political parties in New Vegas a bit like this? Plus if you got Honest Hearts you can learn the backstory of the people who later got sent to the vault with the plants.

 

[Gnidrologist]

It's proper and in some ways even better than originals. In some worse. I don't give a shit about ''canon'' so don't give me that crap. F1 is ridiculously small game, which i realized recently, while replaying it with couple of different builds. Not only it feels like a demo of a game, writing, although succinctly concordant, doesn't give much to ponder about. Some of the interactions are even awkward because of no background or context whatsoever. And what's this shit about engine? F1/2 engine is fucking mess and combat is dull. Yeah, i like its turn based better anyway, but refresh your fucking memories. I'd say that graphics (yeah srsly) and overall art style/ambience is strongest aspect of where originals are superior.

 

[Mozg]

Wasn't the Vault with the political parties in New Vegas a bit like this? Plus if you got Honest Hearts you can learn the backstory of the people who later got sent to the vault with the plants.

I think the plant people were escapees from that vault rather than later going to it.

A more obvious example would be the vault that had been invaded by the Fiends, which had no separate gimmick AFAIR. Well, except the general post-FO3 problem of being chronologically way too old to make sense (it woulda been a closed vault for like 300 years by the time they let the Fiends in and apparently got immediately turned into rapemeat) but you gotta handwave that due to bad FO3 DNA anyway.

 

[Neki]

Sure is better than FO3.

FO1>FO2>FONV

The main problems i have with the game are FO3 stuff(shity engine,bad combat,gamebreaking bugs).The game had potential that was massively wasted by bad decisions(Mostly beacuse of Behtesda "RPG" formulas).
Giving a good game to Bethesda is like giving caviar to an hobo or a gun to a rich dude.
The writing is very good though,I mean is absurd like FO2,but is one of the few modern games that have like real rpg stuff instead of flavour stats so i think that counts a lot when talkin about rpgs.

The post-post apocalypse setting is(surprisingly) good too.

All in all is good Fallout game,that if was not for FO3 handicaps could be at least equal than FO2 but after all still is a "proper" Fallout game

 

[B0rt]

If anyone here has played FO1&2 but never tried New Vegas: would you consider playing the newer fanmade Fallout:Revelations *before* playing New Vegas, then compare the respective experiences, how they both compare as a 3rd chapter?

I've yet to encounter anyone that's played them in that order, would really like to hear how that all flows. I plan on playing Revelations but my brain's already been polluted by New Vegas so I'm curious & want to hear a less biased opinion on this.

 

[Jimmious]

I'm impressed with the negativity towards FO2, even from our overlord sensei Avellone.
I mean sure there were way too many inconsistencies in theme and jokes and stuff...

But the companions were so excellently done and the whole feeling of exploration is this weird world was so good that I don't get how people didn't enjoy it.
For me FO1 is weaker just because of these points.

 

[Black Angel]

F2 was a managerial mishandled mess, both in general production and design-wise (inc. aesthetics).

As I've said, it's clearly a case where a Creative Lead would have been a good idea. Whenever I think of "old Fallout," I only consider F1, and if F2 contradicts it, I ignore F2.

Mozg: Theme Vaults were not my idea, they were Tim Cain's, and only revealed when F2 started production. That said, I don't disagree with them, and I think it made Vaults more interesting, so feel free to blame me anyway.

 

[undecaf]

F2 was a managerial mishandled mess, both in general production and design-wise (inc. aesthetics).

And despite that it's still very highly regarded, if a bit controversial among the fanbase.

I can't imagine what that game could've been like with a bit more focus and polish across the board.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Except for the word "Fallout" on its cover and some vague common concepts and names such as the Brotherhood or the NCR, I feel like New Vegas is absolutely not related to the first two Fallouts.
But judged on its own, despite its shitty engine, it's still a fucking masterpiece, coming close to being as brilliant as Bloodlines.

 

[Sigourn]

Mozg: Theme Vaults were not my idea, they were Tim Cain's, and only revealed when F2 started production. That said, I don't disagree with them, and I think it made Vaults more interesting, so feel free to blame me anyway.

Thanks for joining us tonight Chris. I would have liked to see you vote on the poll, but I understand it's more convenient not to.

Personally after I went through FO3 and FNV and only then played FO1... I feel like Fallout got the Vaults much more right than the titles that came afterwards. It wasn't so much of a question of "what spooky experiment was going on here?", but "people died here because of a nuclear apocalypse". I feel the real purpose of the Vaults as shelters is overlooked in every single Fallout game released after FO1. No one cares about the historical significance of the Vaults anymore. It has either a "cool" experiment, or it doesn't and that makes it forgettable.

I particularly liked this line from Caesar because of this reason:

"It's been said that Auto-Docs were standard equipment in the underground Vaults where mankind survived when the bombs fell centuries ago."

Vaults in that line are just that: vaults and nothing else. A relic of the past, with useful technology for those willing to search for it. Even something as silly as Vault 15 having collapsed and a holodisk entry claiming it is made to withstand earthquakes has much more meaning to me that "we just released gas to make everyone crazy".

 

[Jick Magger]

I'm impressed with the negativity towards FO2, even from our overlord sensei Avellone.
I mean sure there were way too many inconsistencies in theme and jokes and stuff...

But the companions were so excellently done and the whole feeling of exploration is this weird world was so good that I don't get how people didn't enjoy it.
For me FO1 is weaker just because of these points.

I like Fallout 2. However, whenever I play the game it feels as though for every two or three good moments that make me like the game, there's one moment, be it a shitty pop-culture reference or some retcon, that makes me hate it. I honestly have huge gaps in my memory of nearly all of New Reno due to just how fucking saturated that area is with shitty jokes and referential humor.

 

[Jimmious]

I honestly never spent a lot of time in New Reno to be honest. But I agree that this area was "off".
But cmon Sulik, Cassidy, Vic, Marcus... I don't think there was another game that had so memorable and interesting companions ever.

Plus the companion system was the best for immersion imo, the level of influence you had over these NPCs was just right. Even though they could easily murder each other by mistake

 

[Irenaeus]

F2>F1>>>>>>>>>>FNV

These are the only Fallouts.

 

[Lemming42]

In terms of quests and reactivity, New Vegas is probably the best Fallout game just by virtue of having multiple outcomes for basically everything. It's also on par with Fallout 1 for the best incarnation of the Fallout setting, in that every group you meet is justified in the world and relatively well fleshed out, often better than in Fo1 and consistently better than in Fo2.

Anyone who refuses to give the game a chance based on the engine is hilariously missing out, although the engine is indeed a total disgrace that threatens to ruin the game every 5 minutes.

Should probably mention that I never liked Fallout's combat that much anyway, given that it was never the main draw of the games and often totally sucked when it occurred (the fucking oil tanker basement in Fo2), so New Vegas having absolutely terrible FPSRPG combat doesn't bother me too much.

Anyway, as a personal, totally-unjustifiable ranking:
F2>F1>FNV
But those > signs don't represent a huge difference.

 

[Jimmious]

I agree with Irenaeus. Something is wrong.

 

[pippin]

I agree with Irenaeus. Something is wrong.

 

[Goral]

But cmon Sulik, Cassidy, Vic, Marcus...

I disagree. Cassidy is just some random dude, no better than Tycho from F1. Vic is a bit more interesting but him following you is rather moronic. He's an old guy, not that good in fights (unless he has gauss gun but it's OP weapon) and a bit cowardly - I just don't see him going after Enclave just because. Myron is interesting too (and with one of the best voice actors I've heard) but he also isn't someone who would follow you in a long term (he would shit his pants the moment he would see a deathclaw and run to Mordinos). Then we have Skynet and Goris which shouldn't be companions (in fact they shouldn't exist). And there's Marcus but after he joins you there's not much interaction with him (he will sometimes comment something very briefly). There's also K-9 and the dog in cafe of broken dreams but they're shitty too. Only Sulik is "excellently done" but I still prefer Ian. In Fallout 1 every follower had a better reason to follow you IMO (every one of them knew how to fight, weren't that old and weren't that long in one place, one of the reasons why I find it hard to believe that Marcus would just leave everything and go with CO).

Anyway, I agree that F2 is a mess. Having high luck will expose you to way too much popculture. And even if it's low you still won't avoid Tom Cruise and scientologists, ghosts, talking plants, molerats (pinky and the brain) and deathclaws, supermutant-magician, fire geckos, porn studio, boxing matches, astral projections (Hakunin who could communicate with you telepathically and could live long enough to tell you useless things) or theme vaults (which make no sense in a post-apocalyptic world). It also has no time limit which makes this whole thing unbelievable. It has retarded temple of trials (yeah, let's live in a house made of skins instead of a solid building) and retarded villagers (instead of migrating they were waiting on a miracle to happen) and it has lost the "ask about" button. That was one of the most interesting things about Fallout 1, you could have asked about things that weren't visible - awesome. Developers don't do that anymore because not many people were smart enough to use it and notice hidden content.

Despite all these flaws I still consider F2 as one of the best RPGs I know. Even though New Reno doesn't fit post-apo world, the quests and characters in it are very interesting. The whole dynamic between the families makes it a special place and one of the most interesting locations. Vault City is great too and there are some awesome hidden situations available (like contacting Enclave from Gecko). It's a shame they didn't have a creative lead who would trim it from all the unfitting things but what's done is done.