Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[gurugeorge]

There are tons of merc mods of variable quality

Have you tried any you though were very good?

I've tried keys' ones and a few others. I wouldn't say any of them are "very" good - they all have little flaws, like e.g. one has a good voice and 3-d model, but a crappy full portrait, etc. - but keys,' otherguys' and MattP's ones are quite decent. Some lean into a more "realistic" military mode, others more into the "80s movie exaggerated characters idea," but sometimes too far in either direction.

 

[Papill0n]

Modding is funny with this, from looking at now, it seems the game had a healthy modding community for a while and then some updates broke the game and some of the modders gave up or left. But there are still modders making things, and some have taken up the task of revitalizing the mods that were doing well before. But it doesn't seem like a modding meta has set in yet for what's the best general upgrade to the gameplay itself. There are tons of merc mods of variable quality, and a few QOL things here and there, though again not so much since the last update (which ironically was supposed to be mod friendly ).

That's the usual dilemma between mods and updates/patches. I had to end/abandon a few projects because of this mechanism.

I was late to the party with Ja3 and have no Idea which mods still work with the latest version and if they are any good. I guess I'll just have to try some merc mods because the default mercs I have used all of them quite extensively by now except for shadow, the pesky bugger didn't want to join :/

 

[RunningWolf]

Im 30 hours into the game and biggest problems for me are:
1) There's basically no reason to use automatic weapons, except MGs.
2) Stealth is overpowered and enemies are blind. Im thinking about never using it.
3) Too few enemies even on hardest difficulty with "more enemies" option, at least in the first half of the game where i am. Im swimming in explosives because i don't use it on less than 3 enemies, so barely ever.
4) AI is retarded. For all the AI hype we still cant program enemies that can do basic tactics. At this point i don't even bother spreading my team around.
5) Night vision goggles should be a helmet mod, not its replacement, its annoying to swap depending on time of day and takes up valuable inventory space.
6) Need for 3 personality traits limits your team selection. I think the next run i will cheat myself all 3 dialogue traits so i dont need to worry about them.
7) Ugly women yet attractive men. It says that its parodies old action movies but i cant remember a single one with an ugly action chick.

With all that said, we cant play old games forever and the game does some things right. Id rate it slightly above Silent Storm.

 

[Strange Fellow]

3) Too few enemies even on hardest difficulty with "more enemies" option, at least in the first half of the game where i am. Im swimming in explosives because i don't use it on less than 3 enemies, so barely ever.

If the game is too easy, push further inland and try to complete the main objective.

6) Need for 3 personality traits limits your team selection. I think the next run i will cheat myself all 3 dialogue traits so i dont need to worry about them.

You don't need this, and thinking you do is a symptom of completionism brain. If you or a loved one is suffering from completionism brain, please seek help immediately.

 

[Papill0n]

Im 30 hours into the game and biggest problems for me are:
1) There's basically no reason to use automatic weapons, except MGs.
2) Stealth is overpowered and enemies are blind. Im thinking about never using it.
3) Too few enemies even on hardest difficulty with "more enemies" option, at least in the first half of the game where i am. Im swimming in explosives because i don't use it on less than 3 enemies, so barely ever.
4) AI is retarded. For all the AI hype we still cant program enemies that can do basic tactics. At this point i don't even bother spreading my team around.
5) Night vision goggles should be a helmet mod, not its replacement, its annoying to swap depending on time of day and takes up valuable inventory space.
6) Need for 3 personality traits limits your team selection. I think the next run i will cheat myself all 3 dialogue traits so i dont need to worry about them.
7) Ugly women yet attractive men. It says that its parodies old action movies but i cant remember a single one with an ugly action chick.

With all that said, we cant play old games forever and the game does some things right. Id rate it slightly above Silent Storm.

1) I am fond of using assault rifles with mercs that have autofire skill (Pierre with a nicely modded AUG is starting to hit a lot) and even SMGs with Smiley, Len or others. Len has wasted countless enemies with a modified MP5k from the flea market. MG's are ammo sinks in comparison, and it takes a while into the game for mercs to have good perks to go along with regular MG usage.
2) True. OTOH, running face first with a bunch of shotgun tanks into a horde of enemies until they notice and you start right in their face is a valid option in this game as well. Smart pause allows to meanwhile set up machine gun cones or sniper ambushes. Battle initiation is complete bonkers, it's like a different game until the first true turn starts.
3) Using explosives because you need to?? Using explosives because it is fun! Larry, Fidel, Barry, you can do fun things with explosives. Same is true for RPG-7 once you find them. Mortars are meh, but grenade launcher are also fun (but they are noob tubes, use RPGs for coolness instead).
4) AI is quite the disaster, especially for how immersion-breaking game-ish their behaviour is at times. There's 6 mercs armed to the teeth pointing their machine guns at me. Hmmm, how about I run through their entire group, take cover behind a small stone on the other side of their position and fire a single pistol shot from there. What could possibly go wrong?
5) Is retarded. Probably a balancing thing but still retarded and annoying. Does the AI actually ever aim at our heads? At least you can still switch the goggles for free when placing mercs in battle, but it wastes your time and inventory slots. Just one more inventory slot couldn't be too hard, could it?
6) I hate that one too. Very much limits early game squad composition (the early game seems to be heaviest with skill-check and personality-check nonsense quest options). Along with a few other weird choices they made, like leadership speeding up team travel so much but we only have 1-2 high leadership characters in the entire game... We sorely miss Stephen Rothman as an alternative to Raider...
7) Lol @ attractive men? :D Generally I think there are not enough good NPCs (female or male) and some are just like copies of each other. How many badass grannies does it take to take out a WW2-era mad scientist/arrogant doctor?

Be sure to play it for a bit longer. For me one thing that works well to motivate me way into late game is the perk selection on level up together with chosing and modifying the matching equipment to the perk. Anyone who has ever placed Spike behind a .50 cal machine gun has probably had the same laughter of disbelief that I had. Seriously put him behind a .50 cal at some point :D

Strategically, the game becomes kind of dull because any remarkable attack (except some beyond-the-rule-big-event) will go through the same sectors pretty much all the time and it's almost always the same sectors that have enemies. I think the game could be improved quite a bit on the strategic level with more Ja2 style roaming patrols or the like. So you can fight them in different sectors. Not always the same spots.

 

[Modron]

You guys didn't solo the game?

 

[razvedchiki]

them snipers are overpowered firing from stealth, the kar98k you find in the second map (what happended to the moisin's hm?) can one shoot anyone.
the only limiting factor is their ammo. also jebus christ the half turn the enemies get to reposition!

 

[Beowulf]

what happended to the moisin's hm?

Perhaps the devs need to learn more about the famous russian African campaigns in WW2.

 

[deuxhero]

I can understand why they used Kar98k and MG42 for the setting, but I think that since they went that route they should have also included the Zastava M76 so 8mm Mauser had a bit more legs and wasn't just restricted to those two early game weapons.

 

[spectre]

I can understand why they used Kar98k and MG42 for the setting, but I think that since they went that route they should have also included the Zastava M76 so 8mm Mauser had a bit more legs and wasn't just restricted to those two early game weapons.

One could argue that the Zastava is basically a slightly different breed SVD, though having it chambered in a different caliber would be nice, similar to to Flay's winchester putting .45 to work.
Plenty of legit cold shoot the 7,92x57, personally, I'd love a FG42 as a unique weapon for the later game.

Any brave soul out there did a deep dive into the mods? I've only done quick sweep of the nexus, most of the stuff are AI-upscaled mercs from JA2 (a few look decent, but some are just... fucking bad).
There's something called 3.13, but it looks like it just fucks over the game balance by throwing elite diamond shipment squads at you. So far nothing really groundbreaking.
Although I like the looks of the Bleeding Mod, and there are some gun rebalance choices which would need a more careful look. Rato's Rebalance looks like an interesting take,
as there seems to be an actual objective to have firefights end with bleeding and incapacitation.

 

[3 others]

Rato's Rebalance is a good mod. It adds a directional stance to weapons where firing at the same/close by targets requires less action points than shooting at targets outside the merc's view, a recoil system where strong characters have an easier time keeping their aim on target, full damage to autofire but increased critical hit chance for single shots, a short-range malus to scoped-up long distance rifles, bigger awareness cones around enemies to discourage overpowered melee kills, and plenty of other stuff. I would only recommend it after reaching the halfway point of normal JA3 first.

Smart Overwatch is useful. It stops your soldiers wasting their overwatch shots on impossible attempts at the target's torso and instead aiming for visible body parts. You can also manually set shot types and targets for overwatch.

I think the... uhh... Exit Wounds(?) option when starting a new game incorporates similar bleeding penalties as the defunct Bleeding Mod. It was introduced in 1.4 or 1.5.

Pinned Down is a good addition too. It causes your mercs and enemies both start losing action points from just getting shot at. Not sure if the Nexusmods version is still compatible, the one in Steam Workshop is more recent.

As for just QoL stuff, I like Interface Tweaks that adds all sorts of sensible ideas to the UI, mainly in the inventory. There were also SAY THE LINES -mods which cause all applicable merc banters to fire when there's a trigger for it in the conversation so you'll have multiple dudes interjecting when they have something to say. That one probably doesn't work in the current game, unfortunately.

 

[udm]

Rato's Balance is exactly the mod I've been looking for to tip me over the edge to buy JA3 (though I'll still play vanilla first). Thanks!

 

[Atlet]

Fine, im down for another playthrough. Needs to check out the new things they implemented in the game, anyway.

Oh, and are there any recent game that approaches the winning combination of tacticoolness/turn-based combat + char progression/leveling + squad management/strategy, much as JA3 did?

 

[raeven]

Fine, im down for another playthrough. Needs to check out the new things they implemented in the game, anyway.

Oh, and are there any recent game that approaches the winning combination of tacticoolness/turn-based combat + char progression/leveling + squad management/strategy, much as JA3 did?

Some people say troubleshooter, I tried it out and it wasn't at all to my taste though. I've heard wartales and battle brothers scratch the itch, but haven't played either. I believe both are procedurally generated and don't have much in the way of story, but I may be wrong about that.

Other than that... I'd suggest JA2 with stracciatella mod.

 

[raeven]

BB and wartales are medieval setting, so might not be the flavor of tacticool you're going for.

 

[spectre]

Oh, and are there any recent game that approaches the winning combination of tacticoolness/turn-based combat + char progression/leveling + squad management/strategy, much as JA3 did?

It's as it's always been - a beggars can't be choosers type of genre. Especially if you want a modern setting, and even more so if you filter out blatant excum clones.
There are a few upcoming titles that look promising, but could still turn out shit (Urban Strife, maybe End State, but it's still vaporware until proven otherwise, Heatwave, Ascent of Ashes, Menace and Project Haven)

Out of the stuff that's actually released, people swear by Door Kickers, but I keep bouncing off of it. King Arthur I've tried and was okay, but that's fantasy (also, I had this feeling that the missions drag on a bit).
I've managed to get a decent tactical (not tacticool) experience out of Last Spell and Fights in Tight Spaces, if you can stomach the roguelite formula, it has pretty damn solid turn based action that's also fairly recent.
Wartales I've tried, I don't think it's randomly generated (but I've only played the demo and it was some time ago). The system looks akin to the Expeditions series if you happen to swing that way.
Decent, but felt a bit watered down and perhaps a bit too class-focused.
BB is of course excellent and should count as reasonably new (though it feels like ages since I last played it). If there's anything to add, don't be fooled by the graphics.
The devs did an excellent job making the combat very tactile and meaty and you'll quickly forget about the bobblehead characters.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Fine, im down for another playthrough. Needs to check out the new things they implemented in the game, anyway.

Oh, and are there any recent game that approaches the winning combination of tacticoolness/turn-based combat + char progression/leveling + squad management/strategy, much as JA3 did?

It's rare for tactics game to have the kind of squad management and strategic component found in Jagged Alliance 3. Ignoring that, good tactics games from the last few years:

• Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children (2020)
• Dungeon of Naheulbeuk (2020, Tactical RPG)
• Wasteland 3 (2020, Tactical RPG and Codex GotY)
• Urtuk (2021)
• Solasta (2021, Tactical RPG) and another two campaigns with the same engine
• King Arthur: Knight's Tale (2022)

 

[Atlet]

Fine, im down for another playthrough. Needs to check out the new things they implemented in the game, anyway.

Oh, and are there any recent game that approaches the winning combination of tacticoolness/turn-based combat + char progression/leveling + squad management/strategy, much as JA3 did?

Some people say troubleshooter, I tried it out and it wasn't at all to my taste though. I've heard wartales and battle brothers scratch the itch, but haven't played either. I believe both are procedurally generated and don't have much in the way of story, but I may be wrong about that.

Other than that... I'd suggest JA2 with stracciatella mod.

Already played w stracciatella lots of times. Just this year, I finished JA2 2 times with it. Troubleshooter might be incredibly deep, but its cringe anime, so its a pass.

 

[Papill0n]

Rato's Rebalance is a good mod. It adds a directional stance to weapons where firing at the same/close by targets requires less action points than shooting at targets outside the merc's view, a recoil system where strong characters have an easier time keeping their aim on target, full damage to autofire but increased critical hit chance for single shots, a short-range malus to scoped-up long distance rifles, bigger awareness cones around enemies to discourage overpowered melee kills, and plenty of other stuff. I would only recommend it after reaching the halfway point of normal JA3 first.

Smart Overwatch is useful. It stops your soldiers wasting their overwatch shots on impossible attempts at the target's torso and instead aiming for visible body parts. You can also manually set shot types and targets for overwatch.

I think the... uhh... Exit Wounds(?) option when starting a new game incorporates similar bleeding penalties as the defunct Bleeding Mod. It was introduced in 1.4 or 1.5.

Pinned Down is a good addition too. It causes your mercs and enemies both start losing action points from just getting shot at. Not sure if the Nexusmods version is still compatible, the one in Steam Workshop is more recent.

As for just QoL stuff, I like Interface Tweaks that adds all sorts of sensible ideas to the UI, mainly in the inventory. There were also SAY THE LINES -mods which cause all applicable merc banters to fire when there's a trigger for it in the conversation so you'll have multiple dudes interjecting when they have something to say. That one probably doesn't work in the current game, unfortunately.

Some of that stuff sounds very reasonable. Do you know if this all works with 1.5?

I just started using the mod editor and I'm obvously stuck with very basic stuff. I guess the first mod I make is one that gives more tactical options. Unlocking mobile shot and run and gun with more weapons instead of just smgs and pistols. There must be another way to balance the latter better than to give them a unique action that makes little sense being unique for them (if the animations at least looked like it could only be done with small, compact guns, fine, but the shots look exactly the same as normal shots, properly aimed from the shoulder, not like some crazy GTA sideways akimbo Uzi rush or whatever). I'd go for lower Action Points but there is not much room to manouver because someone decided that we should not have 20-25 action points per turn (such as Ja2) but only, say 10-15 usually. Stupid, stupid, stupid! Availability and other tweaks may bring them into balance, though, we'll see.

Oh and do poeple like the autofire mechanic or would a long burst (such as MGs have) be more fun for automatic weapons in general? Looks like I can only have one or the other on the same gun.

 

[3 others]

Tested the mods briefly. Everything works in current game except for "say the lines". Even Pinned Down works despite not being updated since 2023.

Agreed on the "firing while running" animations. Blood's knife throws and the light gun specialties look idiotic, and for a long time I had a problem understanding what the enemy soldiers were doing and how they could cover so much ground and still get a few shots off (because I'm a retard who was playing this like JA2). I really wish they'd have put more resources into these animations, if only to speed them up if nothing else.

 

[Papill0n]

same here. It took me a while to get used to some of these functions. Funny enough, the more the game progresses the more I switch back to Ja2-style again. I guess it has to do with late game enemies such as PMCs not just zergrushing you, but many of them hold a good position and if their spotters see you, the ordnance experts further back will shoot 40mm grenades. Also, a bit of overwatch usually doesn't stop some of these walking tanks. I must confess I often end up noob-tubing them during my own turn rather than pumping tons of AP-ammo into their HP-bloat during overwatch. So I feel overwatch becomes less useful in late game because the rushers are not the problems.


I agree that many of the animations are bad. There are some more really effective special attacks that look... very underwhelming. Ice storm, Bullet Hell... they look like nothing, animation wise so that's really a missed chance there.

 

[razvedchiki]

is there a reason not to use sniper rifles for everyone?

 

[Strange Fellow]

is there a reason not to use sniper rifles for everyone?

A sniper rifle can kill one dude per turn, maybe two. Other weapons can kill four or five.

 

[Berekän]

Snipers are good for suppressed kills before the combat starts, but once the enemies have located you a high marksmanship merc with a LMG is 10x as deadlier.

 

[spectre]

Also, you need Fox to cheese it fully, cause she lets you pull off an extra shot before the scramble.