Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[covr]

I saw some video with 5 or 6 ppl squad, so stop shitposting

 

[Nortar]

I'm mostly shitposting

yes yes, of course

And since 4 man squad is a golden nu-xcom standard and this game is proper tactical pc experience for prestigious gentlemen

sigh. i did it. i let myself believe.

at least we have urban strife and project haven

I don't remember either having larger squads.

it's less the particulars of squad size for them, and more about my conviction that they're eschewing the nuXcom formula.

A number of screenshots show 5 man squads.

For example

And as on the pics with only 4 characters the label has it as "Alpha Squad (4)", not "Alpha Squad (4/5)" I don't think 5 is the limit either.

 

[ArchAngel]

If I remember well in previous JA games the limit was me always being too poor to have larger squads. And if I could really afford more I would rather have 2 squads instead.

 

[Ghulgothas]

@Ghulgothas hit us with some knowledge then

You can have 6-man squads from the onset, like here or here. The only constraint is the finances on hand and the mercs available.

You can break them up into multiple squads of up to six and control them separately, which they do before going into a map here and are represented by the emblems in the upper left of the screen here.

They've talked about integrating a per bullet ballistic system that takes level geometry and collision into account since their first dev diary. And you can see spray deviation and damage only resulting from bullets that make contact here, here, and here.

I understand the inherent suspicion, but all this stuff is obvious from the footage they've been showing off.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

yes, this game has 4 person limit. Which is why they show gameplay with 6 person party:


Edgelords and shitposters are not even trying anymore.

Edit: ninja'ed by Ghulgothas

We can't all reach lofty standards set by Excidium.

 

[agris]

@Ghulgothas hit us with some knowledge then

You can have 6-man squads from the onset, like here or here. The only constraint is the finances on hand and the mercs available.

You can break them up into multiple squads of up to six and control them separately, which they do before going into a map here and are represented by the emblems in the upper left of the screen here.

They've talked about integrating a per bullet ballistic system that takes level geometry and collision into account since their first dev diary. And you can see spray deviation and damage only resulting from bullets that make contact here, here, and here.

I understand the inherent suspicion, but all this stuff is obvious from the footage they've been showing off.

in penance for my low effort interest in this game, i offer evidence of the above:

6 person squads appear to be the max

edit: regarding ballistics

Trailer shots are sometimes recorded many times over and over, so it is important to guarantee the same outcome for each "take". In the specific trailer that you analyzed this was not done in the best way, resulting in the wrong impression. In addition we were still hammering out some kinks in the bullet simulation, which is one of the more involved and demanding systems in the game.

Both accurate and inaccurate shots are randomized and follow different trajectories, damaging objects and units on their path, penetrating objects and bodies depending on ammo properties and materials and causing chaos and collateral damage. Without going into further detail (saving this for a combat DevDiary) I will say that barring bugs and trailer fakery, they should behave as you expect them to - e.g. a missed attack might hit another character standing next to the target and an accurate attack does damage to objects on the way before and after the target (if it penetrates its body).

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

6 without upgrades is indeed taking nuxcom to the the next level. Soon, we will have technology for 7.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

6 is a good balance tbh. Allows for enough variety in team composition while not turning the TB combat into a boring "wait for a million enemies to have their turn."

 

[OndrejSc]

 

[Alienman]

6 is a good balance tbh. Allows for enough variety in team composition while not turning the TB combat into a boring "wait for a million enemies to have their turn."

But can you bring more than one squad to a fight?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

6 is a good balance tbh. Allows for enough variety in team composition while not turning the TB combat into a boring "wait for a million enemies to have their turn."

But can you bring more than one squad to a fight?

I'm guessing that it's reserved for bigger battles/operations/whatever where it's narratively warranted (and I'm in favor of that, naturally).

 

[Tyranicon]

I'm in favor of multiple squads in-combat, but it's a double edged sword as bigger turn-based battles can turn into a slog. And it might cause performance issues depending on how the game is made.

I mostly like it as an option for overwhelming firepower. More dakka please.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

My personal stance when it comes to squad size is that it depends on how big the maps are. Too many squaddies and enemy troops in a small area don't make for a more complex & fun tacticool experience (since it devalues the scope of your maneuvering & positioning choices), but for a chaotic mess that'll get boring fast and possibly annoying depending on the RNG (/bad combat encounter design) of your initial positioning which might either trivialize or arbitrarily up the difficulty of various encounters. And given the universal issue of slogginess that comes with (over)expanding the size of the encounters, I'd rather have smaller maps with appropriately smaller squads than the opposite.

 

[ArchAngel]

I'm in favor of multiple squads in-combat, but it's a double edged sword as bigger turn-based battles can turn into a slog. And it might cause performance issues depending on how the game is made.

I mostly like it as an option for overwhelming firepower. More dakka please.

Wartales cares not if you got 30+ guys in battles but also battle arenas are probably smaller than what JA3 will have.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Troubleshooter has missions with around 16 units on player's side going against 100+ enemies.

 

[Tyranicon]

I just wish the devs would call this game a RPG already instead of having "RPG elements." Mostly so we could move it to the right subforum.

Most places refer to JA3 as a tactical RPG, but the devs insist on something that sounds way less cool and brings up memories of how Assassins Creed had "RPG elements."

 

[spectre]

6-man squads isn't an issue in itself. There was even a similar limitation in JA2. It's only an issue because apparently you can't bring more than one squad on a mission,
though I only fast forwarded through one of the videos and can't 100% confirm if it's the case (couldn't bring myself to suffer through the krauts LP).
There's seems to be some options to manage squads, but I haven't seen anything that would suggest the possibility of coordinated strike,
though from what I've seen the LPs are still bumbling in what seems to be the "tutorial area."

Now, regarding this game, I caught myself realizing this: what I'd really want to see here is a modernized equivalent to JA 1.13,
a bit less autistic perhaps, ideally without all the bloat, but at least something that promises comparable tactical depth.
This is obviously futile as it's still in the air if the developers are even able to catch up with what the base game had to offer.

 

[ArchAngel]

Shit this is nuXcom after all
Enemy pods run into cover as free action once combat starts and you cannot pickup their gear after you kill them..

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

It's really amazing how almost every single dev taking a swing at a squad-based tactical game still thinks they can score it big by copying nu-xcom, when even nu-xcom2 failed to do it and it was like, what, 7 years ago?

When someone finally makes it, it will be one of the biggest "see, I told you so" in mankind's history.

 

[HansDampf]

Shit this is nuXcom after all
Enemy pods run into cover as free action once combat starts and you cannot pickup their gear after you kill them..

14:30
There it is. Looks exactly like nuXCOM.

 

[agris]

Shit this is nuXcom after all
Enemy pods run into cover as free action once combat starts and you cannot pickup their gear after you kill them..

on the loot - i'm not sure. While one of the squad members was walking by a corpse during combat, the UI showed the "loot him" popup. It looked like he could have done that, during combat, if he wanted.


(timestamped)

 

[ArchAngel]

Shit this is nuXcom after all
Enemy pods run into cover as free action once combat starts and you cannot pickup their gear after you kill them..

on the loot - i'm not sure. While one of the squad members was walking by a corpse during combat, the UI showed the "loot him" popup. It looked like he could have done that, during combat, if he wanted.


(timestamped)

It might be some random loot but in the splattecat video he killed a bunch of guys on these maps and only loot was from map(plants for crafting) and boxes. Bodies gave shit and zero while those enemies used weapons to shoot at your guys.

 

[whydoibother]

Scramble turns are bad?
Its either that, or the first group will be killed off before they can act or cover. Or the first group has to be huge to compensate, meaning if you get a couple of misses you are fucked.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Shit this is nuXcom after all
Enemy pods run into cover as free action once combat starts and you cannot pickup their gear after you kill them..

on the loot - i'm not sure. While one of the squad members was walking by a corpse during combat, the UI showed the "loot him" popup. It looked like he could have done that, during combat, if he wanted.


(timestamped)

It might be some random loot but in the splattecat video he killed a bunch of guys on these maps and only loot was from map(plants for crafting) and boxes. Bodies gave shit and zero while those enemies used weapons to shoot at your guys.

That's also how it worked in JA2. Enemies didn't drop all their gear.

Scramble turns are bad?
Its either that, or the first group will be killed off before they can act or cover.

There's nothing wrong with that. Then it becomes about how clever you are about starting engagements. If you move your squad around properly you can set up devastating alpha strikes, but if you're not careful you'll get spotted by some random patrol and your cover is blown while you're still unprepared. I don't get why devs have to invent random shit to fix problems that aren't problems.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Scramble turns are bad?

Yes.

Its either that, or the first group will be killed off before they can act or cover. Or the first group has to be huge to compensate, meaning if you get a couple of misses you are fucked.

So what?
Why can't player be rewarded for getting a drop on enemies, and besides if sound of gunfire would travel to somewhat realistic distance, then it would lead engagement developing more organically, instead of having to device series of encounters on map.

This was one of the things that much reviled JA: Rage got right.