Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[ArchAngel]

I watched gameplay a bit more on twitch and I cannot see what you guys see here. Short range combat, enemy being completely blind to your presence even at close range during daytime.. even in nuXcom enemy has same sight range as players..
People setup MG overwatch from one screen distance, enemy completely blind and then move others to start combat so MG can murder everyone before they get a turn.. this is such terrible gameplay, even worse than nuXcom.

I think you bunch are only enjoying it because it is easy and you feel good beating a game for kids.

Well it is the same with me, I can not understand how any "true" fan of the original XCOM can like Phoenix Point.

XCOM and Jagged Alliance are beside Fallout 1(!) my all time favorites. While neither XCOM, nor Fallout managed to ever come close to the old games, Jagged Alliance 3 actually managed to do that, for me.

And ever since Gollop and Snapshot Games fucked up Phoenix Point I completely lost faith in "modern gaming". In fact Jagged Alliance 3 was the least promising game for me, on my small list of games I was looking forward to. Well it surprised me for good, in a positive way.

Does it have short comings? Absolutely! I fucking hate what they did to the inventory, it is a clear downgrade from Jagged Alliance 2 vanilla, and I hoped for something more in line of 1.13. But that is, to me, the worst thing about the whole game.

I can't belief saying this, but I actually think I am close to having as much fun as I had with Jagged Alliance 2, back in the days. That has never happened before. By reading your complains, it is absolutely clear, that you will never get the feel for it.

What can I tell you, you are obviously not some monocled good tactical game enjoyer like you liked to present yourself. You just have some emotional triggers that you let control you like most of the decline enablers out there.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Come on guys.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Come on guys.

Let the crazy person keep talking about how hard pee-pee is.

 

[Darkwind]

https://www.nexusmods.com/jaggedalliance3/mods/13

That was fast.

The wonders of modkit.

There are a shitload of mods out there already too, just looked at the whole list. This, more than anything else, is what will give this game 'long legs' and keep it fresh in the future. You may even get something that surpasses JA2 1.13 w/ AI if the modkit is powerful enough.

 

[Lord of Riva]

I watched gameplay a bit more on twitch and I cannot see what you guys see here. Short range combat, enemy being completely blind to your presence even at close range during daytime.. even in nuXcom enemy has same sight range as players..
People setup MG overwatch from one screen distance, enemy completely blind and then move others to start combat so MG can murder everyone before they get a turn.. this is such terrible gameplay, even worse than nuXcom.

I think you bunch are only enjoying it because it is easy and you feel good beating a game for kids.

One serious Ai flaw is that enemies can not open doors. But I completely disagree on your conclusion.

 

[ArchAngel]

https://www.nexusmods.com/jaggedalliance3/mods/13

That was fast.

The wonders of modkit.

There are a shitload of mods out there already too, just looked at the whole list. This, more than anything else, is what will give this game 'long legs' and keep it fresh in the future. You may even get something that surpasses JA2 1.13 w/ AI if the modkit is powerful enough.

That is possible. I am first going to play and enjoy 1.13 and then come back to try JA3 once it was DE-nuXcomed.

 

[PanteraNera]

There are a shitload of mods out there already too, just looked at the whole list. This, more than anything else, is what will give this game 'long legs' and keep it fresh in the future. You may even get something that surpasses JA2 1.13 w/ AI if the modkit is powerful enough.

That is what I hope for: Jagged Alliance (1.1)3.

To be honest I am not sure if it really can surpass JA2 1.13, rather "modernize", or even make a total conversation and recreate Jagged Alliance 2 (1.13) in JA 3. There is so many possibilities!

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

So JA3 is ok I guess, but at the end of the day, why should I spend my limited gaming time with this instead of replaying JA2 which I haven‘t played in 15 years or so? "It‘s a competent clone that doesn‘t reach the original in any area though" is not exactly an enticing pitch to anyone except those who have already played JA2 to death.

 

[Tyranicon]

I watched gameplay a bit more on twitch and I cannot see what you guys see here. Short range combat, enemy being completely blind to your presence even at close range during daytime.. even in nuXcom enemy has same sight range as players..
People setup MG overwatch from one screen distance, enemy completely blind and then move others to start combat so MG can murder everyone before they get a turn.. this is such terrible gameplay, even worse than nuXcom.

I think you bunch are only enjoying it because it is easy and you feel good beating a game for kids.

One serious Ai flaw is that enemies can not open doors. But I completely disagree on your conclusion.

Enemies can open doors in my playthrough. That's one way I've been baiting them into overwatch range, is just closing doors and letting them open them.

Maybe some doors are bugged? Haven't come across any but I'm not very far into the game.

 

[Lord of Riva]

I watched gameplay a bit more on twitch and I cannot see what you guys see here. Short range combat, enemy being completely blind to your presence even at close range during daytime.. even in nuXcom enemy has same sight range as players..
People setup MG overwatch from one screen distance, enemy completely blind and then move others to start combat so MG can murder everyone before they get a turn.. this is such terrible gameplay, even worse than nuXcom.

I think you bunch are only enjoying it because it is easy and you feel good beating a game for kids.

One serious Ai flaw is that enemies can not open doors. But I completely disagree on your conclusion.

Enemies can open doors in my playthrough. That's one way I've been baiting them into overwatch range, is just closing doors and letting them open them.

Maybe some doors are bugged? Haven't come across any but I'm not very far into the game.

Interesting, I have not seen them open any doors whatsoever. I first realized it in the Bunker on Ernie Island, you can aggro the enemies close the door. Next turn open the door shoot with two and close it again.

Thus far I have assumed it's a general issue but there are not that many places where doors are a real obstacle.

 

[Sunri]

Weird when i throw grenade in the place where enemy stands without seeing them they don't take any damage

 

[Grampy_Bone]

This feels similar to Phoenix Point in many ways, though I haven't played that game since launch, it never quite grabbed me. I have to be in a mood to play these types of games.

I like the stealth here more than Phantom Doctrine, FWIW. It's definitely not NuXcom, anyone saying that is just wrong.

-Action points instead of 'move action' and 'shoot action'
-Variable aiming modes with granularity and called shots ("headshot" is not a special move for snipers only)
-Surprise and ambush are possible, no "pods" (though non-surprised enemies do get a free action.)
-Classless
-Stealth system
-Stats go up directly instead of just leveling up.
-Large weapon variety
-Ammo matters
-Overwatch is a normal thing, not a special move
-Health is more detailed, wounds system
-Cover is not binary (or trinary I guess), bullets have physics
-More detailed strategic layer (more control over income, weapons break, split up your teams, training, operations, etc. Not just responding to what the game allows you to).

 

[Grampy_Bone]

FYI, if you're waiting for an assault team, start merc training. You can fight off the attack without interrupting the training, and even if you don't want to wait the full 2 days you can still gain some stat boosts.

It also seems to me that you get better loot from assault teams if you auto-resolve the battle. I fought a few normally and got nothing, I auto-resolved and got an RPK and an M24 scout sniper.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Interesting chart:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14JcHKZscRWZ5onz2O_4hWE-K-_tHFPYtig4ppovH2n0/edit?pli=1#gid=0

-Makes a "value" calculation based on overall stats vs. cost. No surprise Barry is #1, both because he has great stats and is the cheapest merc. All the rest of the recruits come in high, some of the vets. Shows that Elites and Legendaries aren't worth their cost.

-Looks like Livewire may eventually leave over Raven; I suspected as much over her line "I don't like you because you are a cop." Oh well, was planning to replace her anyway, might as well get Vicki, though a female Pakistani super-hacker is slightly more believable than a Jamaican.

-Raven is tied for 5th in starting MRK but she's the best non-legendary. Best recruit MRK is Steroid, rest of them are near the bottom.

-Mouse has the highest AGI of all recruits at 99, next is Igor at 89. She also has great dex at 95. Fox beats her with 100 dex but only has 85 AGI. Still, Fox's perk is phenomenal for stealth, and you can't get both. Most other cheap mercs are in the 70s.

-Variety of pistol choices, Berretta is weaker than the Browning but maybe better mods? DE highest damage but I know the Colt can be modded to 3 AP shots

-No other one-handed SMG besides UZI (Mac-10?). Boo.

-FN FAL and AK 74 are tied for best ARs, question of reliability vs range. 5.56 guns have cheaper burst costs though I find it's the rarest ammo, and expensive to craft (30 parts vs. 10)

-Machineguns have almost no variance? Use whatever you have ammo for.

-Winchester surprisingly good rifle. plenty of ammo and respectable damage. It should be weaker and shoot faster, it's a repeating rifle FFS. "Damn Yankee gun you load on Sunday and fire all week."

-M24 best single-shot non-50 cal, SVD can burst fire and uses common ammo. Probably a wash. PSG-1 must have modding potential? Drugonovs certainly do not have 3-round burst function IRL, they gave it that to represent the semi-auto fire mode. If Burst fire is un-nerfed it's the best gun hands down.

-Heavy armor only provides 10% boost over kevlar, probably not worth it.

 

[bobocrunch]

Interesting chart:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14JcHKZscRWZ5onz2O_4hWE-K-_tHFPYtig4ppovH2n0/edit?pli=1#gid=0

-Makes a "value" calculation based on overall stats vs. cost. No surprise Barry is #1, both because he has great stats and is the cheapest merc. All the rest of the recruits come in high, some of the vets. Shows that Elites and Legendaries aren't worth their cost.

-Looks like Livewire may eventually leave over Raven; I suspected as much over her line "I don't like you because you are a cop." Oh well, was planning to replace her anyway, might as well get Vicki, though a female Pakistani super-hacker is slightly more believable than a Jamaican.

-Raven is tied for 5th in starting MRK but she's the best non-legendary. Best recruit MRK is Steroid, rest of them are near the bottom.

-Variety of pistol choices, Berretta is weaker than the Browning but maybe better mods? DE highest damage but I know the Colt can be modded to 3 AP shots

-No other one-handed SMG besides UZI (Mac-10?). Boo.

-FN FAL and AK 74 are tied for best ARs, question of reliability vs range. 5.56 guns have cheaper burst costs though I find it's the rarest ammo, and expensive to craft (30 parts vs. 10)

-Machineguns have almost no variance? Use whatever you have ammo for.

-Winchester surprisingly good rifle. plenty of ammo and respectable damage. It should be weaker and shoot faster, it's a repeating rifle FFS. "Damn Yankee gun you load on Sunday and fire all week."

-M24 best single-shot non-50 cal, SVD can burst fire and uses common ammo. Probably a wash. PSG-1 must have modding potential? Drugonovs certainly do not have 3-round burst function IRL, they gave it that to represent the semi-auto fire mode. If Burst fire is un-nerfed it's the best gun hands down.

-Heavy armor only provides 10% boost over kevlar, probably not worth it.

Raven is insane once you get her trained up a bit, I was ready to drop her because she couldn't even scope in all the way because of her limited AP but once you get the skills for double interrupt attacks and reactive attacks to missed shots, she pumps out like 6 sniper rounds a turn if you set her up right.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Raven is insane

She's doing so much better than Omryn for me, glad I spent the dough on her. Kinda boring personality though.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Raven isn't doing too hot on my team, on account of the abysmal AP pool, which is further hampered by the M24 sniper being Cumbersome. The Gewehr 98 might be the best gun in the game, honestly, which is just ridiculous. Although, Raven with an M24 is starting to pull off those ridiculous Silent Storm unseen headshots from across the map. Have I mentioned recently how much this game reminds me of Silent Storm?

-Mouse has the highest AGI of all recruits at 99, next is Igor at 89. She also has great dex at 95. Fox beats her with 100 dex but only has 85 AGI. Still, Fox's perk is phenomenal for stealth, and you can't get both.

Wut? Yes you can.

Big fan of the fact that I haven't seen several of the weapons you mention.

NOT a big fan of the mortar, apropos of nothing. Given that it takes a whole turn to touch down, assault rifles with grenade launchers just seem flat better. It's possible that I've been unlucky, but enemies seem to dodge mortar fire a lot better than they dodge overwatch (ie. not at all).

 

[Strange Fellow]

It also seems to me that you get better loot from assault teams if you auto-resolve the battle.

Having just autoresolved a bunch of fights, I have to say this seems completely accurate, and mildly ridiculous. I'm curious to know if those of you who don't have ammo problems have autoresolved a lot of fights, because I've suddenly gone from no ammo, to swimming in it.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Wut? Yes you can

If you hire Fox first mouse says no, and if you get her first they'll fight and leave eventually

 

[Serious_Business]

So JA3 is ok I guess, but at the end of the day, why should I spend my limited gaming time with this instead of replaying JA2 which I haven‘t played in 15 years or so? "It‘s a competent clone that doesn‘t reach the original in any area though" is not exactly an enticing pitch to anyone except those who have already played JA2 to death.

Why have you not played JA2 to death?

This post makes me realise that there is a considerable number of individuals that are only semi-invested in certain genres, or even in gaming in general. I understand you have a career and are a father or whatever, but that's it, that's your life, you don't know shit about games, you probably don't even know how to enjoy them anymore. You only have memories of enjoyement. Your ideas aren't worth shit because you don't play enough and you don't think about it in any consequent manner. I don't listen to people who have opinions on, say, music, or litterature, if they know nothing about it, or haven't read a novel for 10 years. It's just basic discussion and critique principles here. Either you take this shit seriously or you don't, or can't.

 

[Sunri]

Wut? Yes you can

If you hire Fox first mouse says no, and if you get her first they'll fight and leave eventually

Sus i have both Mousu and fox and i invited fox first and then mouse at the start of the game anyway someone should make a chart with all the relationships between mercs would be useful

 

[Reject_666_6]

They nailed the NPC banter. There was another I missed where one slave goes, "Have you seen the shaman? He's so powerful he can even make your peepee longer." and then Fox chimes in with, "Guess I'm a shaman r00fles!"

 

[Grampy_Bone]

After Action Report: Jesus Fucking Christ.

I get a message that one of the M.E.R.C. douches needs help. The Major sends a kill squad, and all these bases decide to send their own teams all over the map. My survey of travel routes tells me the Mud Bridge is a choke point where all assault teams will pass. Problem: I do not have ownership of this bridge.

First I assault the bridge, it ends up having an assault team from the adjacent base arrive at the same time. So it's a battle with them plus the defenders in probably the hardest map I've seen so far. No fucking cover. Here's where the game really ought to let me approach a target from further away, and lead some of the enemies out. Oh well.

Takes a few tries but I take the bridge. Everyone is wounded. Now the fun part. Three assaults. Turns out, you can go into overwatch mode during RT phase, and when spotted everyone will get their attacks, lose their first turn AP, but still be in overwatch mode. This naturally devastates all three teams. Barry on the shotgun, Grizzly with the RPK, Raven firing in enfalade. Glorious. (If I were really smart I would have used some of Barry's remote detonators I picked up from the Bus Stop.) Shot up the bridge so much half the buildings were leveled. But survived all the attacks. I liked how the villagers came out and danced on the bodies each time.

I may just be making this harder on myself than it needs to be but gosh it's fun.

 

[PanteraNera]

-Mouse has the highest AGI of all recruits at 99, next is Igor at 89. She also has great dex at 95. Fox beats her with 100 dex but only has 85 AGI. Still, Fox's perk is phenomenal for stealth, and you can't get both. Most other cheap mercs are in the 70s.

I have both Mouse and Fox since 74 days in the same team, Mouse will occasionally comment on her performance "Why does she have to be talented and PRETTY" but thats it.

-FN FAL and AK 74 are tied for best ARs, question of reliability vs range. 5.56 guns have cheaper burst costs though I find it's the rarest ammo, and expensive to craft (30 parts vs. 10)

I loved Jagged Alliance back in the days because I was a gun nut. And they got most guns right.
That said Jagged Alliance 3 is really bad in that regard. The FN FAL has a 20 round magazine as a standard.
The AK 74 is 5,45x39 and not 5,56 x 45.
That the 5,56 cost 30 parts instead of 10 is a bug that will be fixed.

-Machineguns have almost no variance? Use whatever you have ammo for.

The biggest difference is the mods you can use on them which greatly alters there stats, in that regard the HK21 is the big winner for me. The FN Minimi has a much wider overwatch cone than the other LMG's.

90 rounds with big mag, no mods for enhancing range so stuck with 30

150 rounds with expanded mag, 36 range, way better aim bonuses

180 rounds with expanded mag, instead of light it has heavy armor penetration, also 36 range, even more aim bonus and higher base damage but less shots in burst 8 vs 10

RPK and all other LMG's

FN Minimi

-Winchester surprisingly good rifle. plenty of ammo and respectable damage. It should be weaker and shoot faster, it's a repeating rifle FFS. "Damn Yankee gun you load on Sunday and fire all week."

Absolutely if you take reallife for a reference. And agreed it is a really good rifle in the game!

-M24 best single-shot non-50 cal, SVD can burst fire and uses common ammo. Probably a wash. PSG-1 must have modding potential? Drugonovs certainly do not have 3-round burst function IRL, they gave it that to represent the semi-auto fire mode. If Burst fire is un-nerfed it's the best gun hands down.

That is the worst offender in regards of reallife, the Dragunov is using 7,62 x 54R not 7,62 x 39, the first is a rifle round while the later is an AR intermediate round. In reallife the SKS is actually a rifle using the 7,62 x 39. I kinda (not really) understand that they didn't want to include "to many" calibers, but it would had made more sense to give it the 7,62 x 51 rounds than the 7,62 x 39.
Ingame I pick it over the M-24 because its ammo is far more readily avaible. Also the M-24 has cumbersome which the Dragunov hasn't.

 

[Modron]

Oh, and another great thing about Vicki is her personal lockpicking kit. One less resource to worry about. Good shooter, expert mechanic, opens everything. She's good value for money in my book.

Yeah I am currently out of lockpicks myself if you don't need to pick a door and can go around by all means do.