Incline Josh Sawyer appreciation station

[Atlantico]

Dammit, why can't this happen to Gaider or something, why is it always the good ones?

 

[jackofshadows]

I certainly have never felt as alienated from and repulsed by American social values as I do now.

And that's really saying something, because I generally feel alienated from American social values. I think the difference now is that for the first time in my charmed life, I can't escape the influence of those values. They are physically affecting everything around me.

Can someone please explain to me what exactly does he mean?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I certainly have never felt as alienated from and repulsed by American social values as I do now.

And that's really saying something, because I generally feel alienated from American social values. I think the difference now is that for the first time in my charmed life, I can't escape the influence of those values. They are physically affecting everything around me.

Can someone please explain to me what exactly does he mean?

he's a cuck

 

[Roguey]

Can someone please explain to me what exactly does he mean?

People being cavalier about corona I'm guessing.

 

[NPC451]

Why would Josh be mad that a bunch of dumb Americans are getting the plague to show their love for trump?
All praise the boomer remover.

 

[Nano]

Doesn't Josh have a six-figure job? Politics aren't a cause for depression for someone living as comfortably as him, he's just using it as an excuse.

 

[Owlish]

Why would Josh be mad that a bunch of dumb Americans are getting the plague to show their love for trump?
All praise the boomer remover.

stfu

 

[Roguey]

Why would Josh be mad that a bunch of dumb Americans are getting the plague to show their love for trump?
All praise the boomer remover.

Orange County turned against Trump and the Republicans, it's Dem-voters who are bringing him down.

Doesn't Josh have a six-figure job? Politics aren't a cause for depression for someone living as comfortably as him, he's just using it as an excuse.

The hierarchy of needs ensures there's always some reason to be miserable.

 

[FreeKaner]

This is probably just convenient world-building, i.e. write what you know, but it doesn't work for the setting. The US is wonderful for post-apocalyptic settings, but when it comes to fantasy nothing outshines European based lore.

This is only true insofar that Western writers were most familiar with European fantasy and wrote Western fantasy for decades, with strong examples like Tolkien so it became most developed and explored. However it's not even true in the sense that this "European lore" is not even fully European, as it borrowed aplenty from rest of the world in content and vision, especially Middle-east and India but also even East Asia and Africa. Ignoring this, Middle-east, India and East Asia has thousands year old histories with plenty of myths, legends, philosophy and motiffs to fill several settings. It's just people from these countries are useless and don't write fantasy utilising these, even if they know of it they generally follow the example of more developed Western fantasy. US is also very fertile for modern fantasy, especially 19th and 20th century urban fantasy but obviously there isn't much to work with if you are trying to do 16th.

I like Western fantasy myself especially when it incorporates Western social structure and folklore well (Darklands). Issue here is the fact only Westerners are doing fantasy and they work with what they know and what's well developed and well known and also already includes quite bit from wider world.

One day we might see some non-Western company working with Middle-eastern or Indian fantasy but I don't think it will happen any time soon if ever. If anything Western fantasy just became fantasy as is by incorporating lesser developed fantasy settings into itself as background and absorbing its mythology and themes as props. Often audiences also want what they are familiar with and prefer what they can recognise even if its generic than what they don't. Which is a sad state of affairs for fantasy, if we look at PoE2 the one interesting thing they have done was making their setting something akin to Southeast Asia in colonial period, of course they haven't done a great job at it but it feels worth exploring which is the one good part of the game. However it was met with backlash as some people weren't even able to conceive firearms and sailships in fantasy, immediately thinking of Pirates of Caribbean instead as if sailships and pirates can only exist there or cannot exist inclusive with fantasy even there, Pirates of Caribbean IS a fantasy setting after all. When some of most fantastic explorations in history has been in this era with plenty to work with. Spanish and Portuguese in Americas, Portuguese and Ottomans in India and Southeast Asia, crosscultural military and commercial expeditions in Mediterranean, Africa and all else.

Of course there are certain themes and tropes that are common and can be used amply in fantasy in general but there is so much out there that would work for excellent fantasy and it's convention and familiarity that ironically dooms it to banality. Very ironic for the genre called fantasy.

 

[turkishronin]

What he describes is literally depression

 

[Ivan]

Previous generations had it right accidentally; check the news once, twice a day at most and no more. Focus on your life, family, and local community.

 

[Atlantico]

This is only true insofar that Western writers were most familiar with European fantasy and wrote Western fantasy for decades, with strong examples like Tolkien so it became most developed and explored. However it's not even true in the sense that this "European lore" is not even fully European, as it borrowed aplenty from rest of the world in content and vision, especially Middle-east and India but also even East Asia and Africa.

Ignoring this,

Yeah, I think that's for the best.

Middle-east, India and East Asia has thousands year old histories with plenty of myths, legends, philosophy and motiffs to fill several settings.

Well yes and any of them would have been more interesting than Josh's "not-America". That's my point.

US is also very fertile for modern fantasy, especially 19th and 20th century urban fantasy but obviously there isn't much to work with if you are trying to do 16th.

That is also what I wrote. Did you even read my post?

Yes, I agree with what you wrote, not the least because that what I wrote. Which is fine, I like it when people agree with me, but you seem to have hit the "disagree" button and your reply is confrontational, as if you're not agreeing with me.

But you are. Well, I've nothing more to say, other than, nice that you agree!

 

[Delterius]

imagine caring about boat barbarians and thinking they are western

 

[laclongquan]

This is probably just convenient world-building, i.e. write what you know, but it doesn't work for the setting. The US is wonderful for post-apocalyptic settings, but when it comes to fantasy nothing outshines European based lore.

This is only true insofar that Western writers were most familiar with European fantasy and wrote Western fantasy for decades, with strong examples like Tolkien so it became most developed and explored. However it's not even true in the sense that this "European lore" is not even fully European, as it borrowed aplenty from rest of the world in content and vision, especially Middle-east and India but also even East Asia and Africa. Ignoring this, Middle-east, India and East Asia has thousands year old histories with plenty of myths, legends, philosophy and motiffs to fill several settings. It's just people from these countries are useless and don't write fantasy utilising these, even if they know of it they generally follow the example of more developed Western fantasy. US is also very fertile for modern fantasy, especially 19th and 20th century urban fantasy but obviously there isn't much to work with if you are trying to do 16th.

I like Western fantasy myself especially when it incorporates Western social structure and folklore well (Darklands). Issue here is the fact only Westerners are doing fantasy and they work with what they know and what's well developed and well known and also already includes quite bit from wider world.

One day we might see some non-Western company working with Middle-eastern or Indian fantasy but I don't think it will happen any time soon if ever. If anything Western fantasy just became fantasy as is by incorporating lesser developed fantasy settings into itself as background and absorbing its mythology and themes as props. Often audiences also want what they are familiar with and prefer what they can recognise even if its generic than what they don't. Which is a sad state of affairs for fantasy, if we look at PoE2 the one interesting thing they have done was making their setting something akin to Southeast Asia in colonial period, of course they haven't done a great job at it but it feels worth exploring which is the one good part of the game. However it was met with backlash as some people weren't even able to conceive firearms and sailships in fantasy, immediately thinking of Pirates of Caribbean instead as if sailships and pirates can only exist there or cannot exist inclusive with fantasy even there, Pirates of Caribbean IS a fantasy setting after all. When some of most fantastic explorations in history has been in this era with plenty to work with. Spanish and Portuguese in Americas, Portuguese and Ottomans in India and Southeast Asia, crosscultural military and commercial expeditions in Mediterranean, Africa and all else.

Of course there are certain themes and tropes that are common and can be used amply in fantasy in general but there is so much out there that would work for excellent fantasy and it's convention and familiarity that ironically dooms it to banality. Very ironic for the genre called fantasy.

The majority of paying customers for western games is European and USers, thus you guys get stories made from those sphere of culture. because that way games are easier to sell there.

In the same way for Japanese language game (thus made to sell in JP) and Chinese language games (thus made to sell to chinese) get stories made from JP and CHN spheres of cultures.

There's nothing superiority about it, but marketing, sale, and market demands.

Post Apocalypse? The Chinese authors wrote a great deal about that, in whatever setting, but most of all about China.

Fantasy theme? Leaving Chinese aside, even Japanese authors do write a great deal on those line.

Like, the Resident Evil series (Biohazard in japanese) is PA. Dark Soul is fantasy. Final Fantasy 7/8 is both PA and fantasy. etc and etc

 

[Delterius]

The majority of paying customers for western games is European and USers, thus you guys get stories made from those sphere of culture. because that way games are easier to sell there.

The point is what exactly people love to consume.

Is it just the regurgitated retellings of Roland and the Knights of the Robin Hood? Just Tuatha Dannan knockoffs?

Not really.

Isn't it actually these absurdist kitchen sink settings that borrow concepts from the entire world, especially the Middle East and India with jewish, iranian and arabian folklores?

Its not really '100% white european made in IMPERIVM ROMANVM' when you have reincarnating magis constructing flying carpets to bombard golems with mana just because they live in 'european looking' castles.

Saying that 'european lore is superior for fantasy' is like saying that the words mana, golem and halal were invented in The West. When in reality, the very concepts of mages and magic themselves draw so much from the east. You know, the relevant portion of ancient rome.

 

[Atlantico]

The point is what exactly people love to consume.

Is it just the regurgitated retellings of Roland and the Knights of the Robin Hood? Just Tuatha Dannan knockoffs?

Not really.

Isn't it actually these absurdist kitchen sink settings that borrow concepts from the entire world, especially the Middle East and India with jewish, iranian and arabian folklores?

Its not really '100% white european made in IMPERIVM ROMANVM' when you have reincarnating magis constructing flying carpets to bombard golems with mana just because they live in 'european looking' castles.

Saying that 'european lore is superior for fantasy' is like saying that the words mana, golem and halal were invented in The West. When in reality, the very concepts of mages and magic themselves draw so much from the east. You know, the relevant portion of ancient rome.

The SJW clown is triggered, so we must be correct.

BTW, European lore is superior for fantasy and that's nothing like saying "that the words mana, golem and halal were invented in The West". You're declining, leftard.

 

[Delterius]

he's triggered i'm not butthurt he's triggered i'm not butthurt he's triggered i'm not butthurt he's triggered i'm not butthurt

 

[Ol' Willy]

Jewish fantasy? You mean the Bible?

 

[Delterius]

Jewish fantasy? You mean the Bible?

Yes but not just, of course. Folk lore diffuses in infinite ways, most of all through people simply telling stories. Elements combine, names are borrowed and details added. Very cool.

 

[Atlantico]

There is exists a type of dumbfucks who always avoid being serious, never wanting to talk straight - because when they do, it becomes scarily obvious that they're actually drooling idiots.

Ignorance is curable, idiocy is permanent - so some try to hide that they are drooling retards by making dad-jokes.

You made a statement which was so incredibly superficial and stupid. You thought you were making a edjumucated point, but aren't smart enough to realize how stupid it was. Relativist, fedoratard, shitskinned idiot.

No cure for that, maybe you'll get shanked in a favela for your sneakers

 

[FreeKaner]

This is only true insofar that Western writers were most familiar with European fantasy and wrote Western fantasy for decades, with strong examples like Tolkien so it became most developed and explored. However it's not even true in the sense that this "European lore" is not even fully European, as it borrowed aplenty from rest of the world in content and vision, especially Middle-east and India but also even East Asia and Africa.

Well, I've nothing more to say, other than, nice that you agree!

I disagreed that European lore is inherently better, I said it became more developed and explored due convention and familiarity because of Western writers writing for Western audience. In particular the Western audience is hostile to settings that are almost entirely European but outside scope of medieval fantasy. I also further suggested that beyond scope of what now counts as Western fantasy (faux medieval), there is plenty of material to be drawn from Europe alone for fantasy, let alone entire themes, mythologies, legends and philosophies from rest of the world. Especially Middle-east and India, one thousand and one nights was the basis of fantasy even in Europe for a long time after all. Moreover there is plenty of folklore and as well as societal structures open to fantasy in those two areas. Mine wasn't really a criticism of Western writers for writing Western fantasy anyway but complete lack of production from outside of it, though the reaction of Western audience to renaissance and colonial fantasy has been very disappointing.

Also yes, concepts such as mages, ghouls, nagas, reincarnation and countless other examples that make up what you think of as "Western fantasy" are as Western as Africans, Arabs and Chinamen are Scandinavian so you did indeed make an astute observation. You are also exceptionally butthurt for a Spaniard.

 

[Juju Zombie]

He should simply toughen up.
Bottle up all of his emotions and throw that bottle down into the abyss.
Problem solved.

 

[Diggfinger]

Wishin the best for you, Josh!
You're an awesome Ubermensch and mega talented game=designer


Ps. maybe now he can hook up with that cute Austrian girl, Johanna

 

[Butter]

Ps. maybe now he can hook up with that cute Austrian girl, Johanna

He has gf already.

Be more open-minded. It's current year.

 

[Atlantico]

I disagreed that European lore is inherently better

So I am not in the mood to discuss something I didn't mention, what I said was Josh's not-America lore blows. Evidently you were triggered by me writing that "nothing outshines European based lore". I did not actually write "European lore".

I wasn't talking about actual European lore, but derivatives based on it. Now I'm sure you are all up in arms about this, but really - your Asian lore simply hasn't created much interesting *derivative* work. Nothing outshines European based lore in that regard. That means nagas and mages and all that is taken and incorporated into European-based lore, for our entertainment.

Now if you were being intellectually honest, you'd mention that none of these things you talked about are even recognizable in European derivative works, compared to the original. They're twisted and changed to serve European aesthetics and interest. The names are sometimes kept and just about everything else scrapped.

So do you understand? Am I being unclear?

You are also exceptionally butthurt for a Spaniard.

Probably. Yes I probably am.

Probably because half of what you wrote was relativistic drivel and the other half were half-truths and vague insinuations about how supposedly "incredibly interesting" sandnigger "lore" is.

That's what you read as butthurt, when someone rejects this romanticized pile of manure you halfbreeds shovel to gild your otherwise culturally barren existence, after your satanic religion wiped it all out. Always victims. Always lying.