Game News Kickstarter Drama: Conquistador, Shadowrun and Eisenwald

[Jaesun]

I think he owns the Wasteland IP and can sell it where he likes. It's just the rights to the original Wasteland that's owned by EA, and he needs their permission to bundle it with Wasteland 2.

Correct me if I'm mistaken though.

He owns the TRADEMARK to Wasteland (any new game made with the word Wasteland™ is owned by Fargo). ALL of the original IP (Characters, Setting, Story, Lore etc.... of the first Wasteland Game) are still owned by EA. Thus him having to ask EA permission to continue the story based on the same setting of Wasteland. Of which they did agree to. The consequences of making a deal with Satan we don't know yet....

 

[Drowed]

About Expeditions: Conquistador, yeah. That was dumb. If that story about "the multiplayer was really planned from the start" is true or not, I don't know, and it doesn't matter to me. Everything that happened lately was a catastrophic failure. But the game looks good, so I'll probably end up buying it later.

I was planning to buy Shadowrun Returns on STEAM anyway, if I had that option. So, no problems. But the use of checkpoints is profoundly retarded, sure. No excuses here. We can stay here in a semantic discussion about the fact that "the game will have a DRM-free version but the producers lied by failing to ensure that it would be valid for DLCs too"... But honestly, for all purposes, they kept their promise in my point of view. The lack of loot and the save system worries me way more.

About Legends of Eisenwald I really don't have much to say. Backed it, and the delay doesn't seem to be that relevant. (I prefer a delay with a more polished game than a buggy mess at launch.) And the "producer" came late enough to make me believe that he will not have any significant effect on the game. Or so I hope.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

SHADOWRUN? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDINGME?
Blackhart is not pleased.

I'm not scrolling through 6 pages of fucking comments but FUCK ME SHADOWRUN!!!!
Fucking seriously, this is bullshit and really, really fucking aggravating. I don't like hearing bad things about projects I am excited about goddammit.
What are they getting rid of next in the game? Character creation?

 

[Jaesun]

SHADOWRUN? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDINGME?
Blackhart is not pleased.

I'm not scrolling through 6 pages of fucking comments but FUCK ME SHADOWRUN!!!!
Fucking seriously, this is bullshit and really, really fucking aggravating. I don't like hearing bad things about projects I am excited about goddammit.
What are they getting rid of next in the game? Character creation?

What specifically are you upset about? Checkpoint saves? Big deal. Or are you some Save Scumming sub-human?

 

[mindx2]

What specifically are you upset about? Checkpoint saves? Big deal. Or are you some Save Scumming sub-human?

I'm actually surprised your ok with this whole thing. Not the save part but the DRM and publisher (MS) part. What is your opinion not just on DRM/ publisher interference but the so-called "spirit" of Kickstarter funding? Doesn't it irk you in the slightest? For me, it's not like I'm freaking out over this but it does rub me the wrong way what HBS is doing and how they went about finally telling their backers about this.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

What specifically are you upset about? Checkpoint saves? Big deal. Or are you some Save Scumming sub-human?

One question both you and I have asked in the past has yet to be answered: stat allocation and character creation.
And you know what?
We've mostly seen the same group of characters.
Sound promising to you?

 

[Jaesun]

What specifically are you upset about? Checkpoint saves? Big deal. Or are you some Save Scumming sub-human?

One question both you and I have asked in the past has yet to be answered: stat allocation and character creation.
And you know what?
We've mostly seen the same group of characters.
Sound promising to you?

 

[Excidium]

You can create your character and allocate your stats. Only yours, though. NPCs have fixed progression (I'm assuming they progress so you can keep using the same runners if they don't die).

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Just curious...can we at least get a shout-out from Roguey to inXile if Fargo turns out to actually manage his own games into fruition without any embarrassment?

 

[HanoverF]

DRM-free wasn't in the pitch. It funded before DRM-Free became a cause célèbre on bitchstarter and it was promised for SR. Microsoft owns SR and they had to license it, this wasn't some huge secret. Why they didn't announce that MS was requiring them to use DRM and they negotiated the release of a DRM free version to backers is beyond me, but meh. It makes for some entertaining butthurt tho.

 

[keppj0nes]

DRM-free wasn't in the pitch. It funded before DRM-Free became a cause célèbre on bitchstarter and it was promised for SR. Microsoft owns SR and they had to license it, this wasn't some huge secret. Why they didn't announce that MS was requiring them to use DRM and they negotiated the release of a DRM free version to backers is beyond me, but meh. It makes for some entertaining butthurt tho.

Wasn't in the pitch? every pricing tier of the KS said DRM Free on it.

 

[commie]

What's the problem with DRM? I think there isn't enough of it! Only when every game needs mandatory logging into Steam, Uplay, GFWL, Origin, other online activations and permanent connection required with half hourly re-inputs of the serial and with captcha and comes with Starforce and Tages and FADE, then I will be happy.

 

[Black]

Shadowrun may require activation on Steam, but I doubt it'll use steamworks.

 

[Excidium]

Shadowrun may require activation on Steam, but I doubt it'll use steamworks.

Don't you need steamworks to use the workshop?

 

[Overboard]

Thankfully I only got this on pre-order so I'll be able to cancel this with a clear conscience.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Awesome. I baked all three of those games.

Awesome.

Baked? Looks like they baked you.

 

[Black]

Shadowrun may require activation on Steam, but I doubt it'll use steamworks.

Don't you need steamworks to use the workshop?

No idea.

 

[Cassidy]

Did you really back a project obviously intended and designed for tablets first not expecting Steam, no inventory and checkpoints in its PC port?

 

[HanoverF]

DRM-free wasn't in the pitch. It funded before DRM-Free became a cause célèbre on bitchstarter and it was promised for SR. Microsoft owns SR and they had to license it, this wasn't some huge secret. Why they didn't announce that MS was requiring them to use DRM and they negotiated the release of a DRM free version to backers is beyond me, but meh. It makes for some entertaining butthurt tho.

Wasn't in the pitch? every pricing tier of the KS said DRM Free on it.

And it was added long after the campaign had started.

From the FAQ on the kickstarter page

What type of account system/DRM can we expect?
While the details are still being worked out, we hate draconian DRM as much as the next guy. We expect there will be an account system but it would be primarily used to enable the social elements of the game like mission and character sharing--not to restrict access to the game itself.
Last updated: Monday Apr 23, 6:38pm EDT

So yes, it wasn't in the pitch, that question appeared on the page a week after funding was reached, and then late in the campaign the DRM Free was added to the tier descriptions.

 

[jewboy]

Makes me happy that I have been risk averse when it comes to backing kickstarters. So far I've only backed the safest bets from established developers like Obsidian and inXile. If I had backed SRR I would be super pissed right now. I've always thought that backers have been way too trusting and have treated their donation too much like a pre-order. It's more like being a venture capitalist than buying a game. It's a gamble. Making a computer game is non-trivial and it takes some management skills to pull off, especially with a fixed budget. I think this is only the beginning. We will see a lot more promises broken and trust betrayed in the next few years.

 

[Black]

Backers who want a DRM-free experience with Shadowrun Returns (on Windows, OSX, and Linux) are getting the game, editor and all, and will be able to transfer community-created story files and update executables manually. (It works just like a non-Steam version of Skyrim: you can install mods manually or via a 3rd-party tool such as Nexus.) The DRM-free version will not require any internet connection or any form of online authorization to play.

So why the drama?

 

[janjetina]

Combined with the news from last month that Shadowrun Returns would lack core CRPG features such as looting and game saving(!), the impression one gets is that this project has also run out of money, forcing the developers to cut corners and make questionable compromises.

If the lack of game saving is linked to budget issues, they really should not be in the software industry. This is just a few lines of code: open the file, write game structures to the file, close the file. The only possible scenario was that they had only one programmer working on that and they didn't want to pay him so he left (and they don't want to pay anyone else to implement this, which should be simple enough if the game state structures are organised rationally).

People who sound like they know what they're talking about:

Checkpoint saves ARE in fact far less time consuming to code than not. There are fewer variables if you can't save mid-mission or in any possible place and status, even if save points are abundant.

Save anywhere isn't really much harder technically assuming your architecture is set up for it from the start, but it's still a lot more time-consuming and error-prone, especially to QA. In other words, it's got little to nothing to do with programming ability.

As a matter of fact, they sound like bad programmers. I'm not in the game industry myself, but I would assume that the first high level design issue when it comes to coding is (or should be) defining the data structure that would cover the whole game state. Granted that the structure is not simple (should be a complex hierarchical structure), but you only need to write the function saving the whole game state once and just call it at need with the reference to the game state object and of course you have to keep track of the game state through the game anyway which of is the real Q&A issue independent off the I/O.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Awesome. I baked all three of those games.

Awesome.

Baked? Looks like they baked you.

You're better than that DU. We all saw it, and all of us thought it was beneath our dignity to point out. Except you.

And, there is precedent for baking games here on the codex.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Awesome. I baked all three of those games.

Awesome.

Baked? Looks like they baked you.

Yeah, yeah. I noticed that awhile after I made the post but your awesome editing limitations made it impossible to fix.

So thanks for that.

 

[SwiftCrack]

The baby butthurt comments about shadowrun and drm are hilarious.