KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Serus]

I know you're down on Sam and after playing the Tutorial I can see why but there's more there than meets the eye, especially if you add in a Disarm/Trip package, and it covers the Word of Honor slot. That said I want my HG to be Grappling/Sliding so I'm running Champion this time while waiting for the Jorad bug to get fixed. Really wish Monk got Word of Honor.

As for Healing Domain I don't know WTF he's doing. I've yet to play Cleric since there are so many crazy Domains I can't give up Bishop but Healing ain't one of them. Is the Healbot thing a relic of people growing up on MMOs?

I assume you are not speaking about Jorad getting a pet so i'll ask what bug?

I'm surprised the village lasted as long as it did with so many unspeakable evils sitting underneath it in the absurdly large sewer system.

Isn't it a case for many CRPGs though?

 

[Tweed]

Prince was a really big help for the battle. Let me get away with being level 12 for the encounter. These really long battles make me nervous as hell because the game is unstable.

I grappled the queen and pinned her to the floor with a three foot tall kobold.

 

[Tweed]

Annnnnnnnnnnd OBS didn't record any of it, fucking godamn.

EDIT: Ironically I did the battle again and completely aced it. I mean, it couldn't have possibly have gone better and I saved every spider ally this time.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Can we get two or three more codexers on for this? Come on you lazy bastards, it's a small effort for the greater good!

How would it even work?
I'd help to the extend of my meager skills if it led to something easy to patch on the user end but I'm not sure.
Did you make some test, is replacing tokens with the same names going to change monsters tokens?

I know you're down on Sam and after playing the Tutorial I can see why but there's more there than meets the eye, especially if you add in a Disarm/Trip package, and it covers the Word of Honor slot. That said I want my HG to be Grappling/Sliding so I'm running Champion this time while waiting for the Jorad bug to get fixed. Really wish Monk got Word of Honor.

The problem is, the Samouraï is amazing, but not the way you and anvi want to use him.
He turns a +1 weapon into a +9 at max level, you have to ask yourself which enchantment can make the most of this.
The answer is skewer with a high damage and high crit multiplier weapon and bracers increasing the weapon multiplier even further...
Reach weapon have neither high damage nor crit multiplier.
There might be one artifact reach weapon in the whole game but I think it's already fully enchanted.

I assume you are not speaking about Jorad getting a pet so i'll ask what bug?

The game bugs for him when he picks Jorad, which is weird, never happened to me and I picked him twice, so either it's his system or the avatar/models he picks.

 

[Reinhardt]

Did you make some test, is replacing tokens with the same names going to change monsters tokens?

yes. and not just monsters. for example

 

[Desiderius]

The game bugs for him when he picks Jorad, which is weird, never happened to me and I picked him twice, so either it's his system or the avatar/models he picks.

Several people are reporting it on Steam. Maybe it has to do with waiting until you already have a full party to recruit him?

Eight active will crash it when you click the dialogue after the fight. If you make room for him it doesn't crash until you save. If you wait to save until the next autosave you can keep playing but then the game crashes if you later try to add him to the party.

Also a common crash when saving after getting the Shark Druid treasure and teleporting back to the surface.

 

[Desiderius]

The problem is, the Samouraï is amazing, but not the way you and anvi want to use him.
He turns a +1 weapon into a +9 at max level, you have to ask yourself which enchantment can make the most of this.

Through the first half of the game he turns a non-magic weapon into a magic weapon (and progressively more magic weapon), which is pretty handy given the lack of magic reachers and the limited ability to make/enhance your own whatever weapon you're using.

The endgame isn't the only part of the game with problems to solve and the better you solve the early/mid problems the easier the end gets where you have all kinds of other tools at your disposal.

Single weapon means you can't dual-wield. Whirlwind doesn't benefit from iteratives or Haste, but those are mid/late problems, not early. Sam/Whirlwind/Reach is (very) strong when other classes are weak, which is when you need it. And there's more to the game than crits. Hitting 24 squares instead of eight is virtually critting already, and that increased coverage lets you crit in a sense with Disarm as well with Ready vs Approach and Combat Reflexes. You can switch to a high crit weapon late for single targets if that's what you need and likewise can pick up Cleaves for your iteratives and move away from Whirlwind.

Bigger concern for me is that he has no spells, can't use scrolls, and does nothing to buff team.

 

[AdolfSatan]

I'd help to the extend of my meager skills if it led to something easy to patch on the user end but I'm not sure.
Did you make some test, is replacing tokens with the same names going to change monsters tokens?

Exactly like that, you create a file with the same name, overwrite the pre-existing token, and it takes the place of the original in-game.
For the end user, it'll be as simple as unzipping the file in the token folder and clicking "replace all".

It'll go like this:

1. Source for the bestiary is defined. It can be D&D, PF, WHF, whatever has the most comprehensive list of critters. If possible, everything from a single artist, to keep consistency in looks.
2. Vote on token style, i.e. square vs round, and border color.
3. Tokens get distributed amongst each contributor. We'll work only on monsters, not humans. For tokens with pertinent variations (like a dragon that can be white, black, green, etc.), you'll send me the picture, and I'll edit it to get the appropriate hues. Tokens with irrelevant variations, like the ones where it's just the same image but zoomed, will get everything replaced by a single one. Ain't got no time to waste on that kind of shit.
4. After setting a reasonable time-frame, we'll settle on a single online token creator configured to the same parameters, and everyone starts working his backlog (at an easy pace).
5. I gather the results, check that everything's working, zip it, and upload it.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Exactly like that, you create a file with the same name, overwrite the pre-existing token, and it takes the place of the original in-game.
For the end user, it'll be as simple as unzipping the file in the token folder and clicking "replace all".

It'll go like this:

1. Source for the bestiary is defined. It can be D&D, PF, WHF, whatever has the most comprehensive list of critters. If possible, everything from a single artist, to keep consistency in looks.
2. Vote on token style, i.e. square vs round, and border color.
3. Tokens get distributed amongst each contributor. We'll work only on monsters, not humans. For tokens with pertinent variations (like a dragon that can be white, black, green, etc.), you'll send me the picture, and I'll edit it to get the appropriate hues. Tokens with irrelevant variations, like the ones where it's just the same image but zoomed, will get everything replaced by a single one. Ain't got no time to waste on that kind of shit.
4. After setting a reasonable time-frame, we'll settle on a single online token creator configured to the same parameters, and everyone starts working his backlog (at an easy pace).
5. I gather the results, check that everything's working, zip it, and upload it.

Ok, count me in.

So, who's the fourth Dalton?
Avrell, are you there?

Through the first half of the game he turns a non-magic weapon into a magic weapon (and progressively more magic weapon), which is pretty handy given the lack of magic reachers and the limited ability to make/enhance your own whatever weapon you're using.

The endgame isn't the only part of the game with problems to solve and the better you solve the early/mid problems the easier the end gets where you have all kinds of other tools at your disposal.

Single weapon means you can't dual-wield. Whirlwind doesn't benefit from iteratives or Haste, but those are mid/late problems, not early. Sam/Whirlwind/Reach is (very) strong when other classes are weak, which is when you need it. And there's more to the game than crits. Hitting 24 squares instead of eight is virtually critting already, and that increased coverage lets you crit in a sense with Disarm as well with Ready vs Approach and Combat Reflexes. You can switch to a high crit weapon late for single targets if that's what you need and likewise can pick up Cleaves for your iteratives and move away from Whirlwind.

Bigger concern for me is that he has no spells, can't use scrolls, and does nothing to buff team.

But the early game is a cakewalk now with the extra content and weapons and equipment you gather in the village, that's why I was able to hoard xp to almost complete my Ironman run before it crashed on me.
Why would you want to fuck up your Samourai build for no reason?

And don't tell me Pizarra's fight, besides acorns of earthquake and initiative focused mages, the only thing that can save you there is a good skewer weapon/build.

 

[Serus]

Through the first half of the game he turns a non-magic weapon into a magic weapon (and progressively more magic weapon), which is pretty handy given the lack of magic reachers and the limited ability to make/enhance your own whatever weapon you're using.

The endgame isn't the only part of the game with problems to solve and the better you solve the early/mid problems the easier the end gets where you have all kinds of other tools at your disposal.

Single weapon means you can't dual-wield. Whirlwind doesn't benefit from iteratives or Haste, but those are mid/late problems, not early. Sam/Whirlwind/Reach is (very) strong when other classes are weak, which is when you need it. And there's more to the game than crits. Hitting 24 squares instead of eight is virtually critting already, and that increased coverage lets you crit in a sense with Disarm as well with Ready vs Approach and Combat Reflexes. You can switch to a high crit weapon late for single targets if that's what you need and likewise can pick up Cleaves for your iteratives and move away from Whirlwind.

Bigger concern for me is that he has no spells, can't use scrolls, and does nothing to buff team.

But the early game is a cakewalk now with the extra content and weapons and equipment you gather in the village, that's why I was able to hoard xp to almost complete my Ironman run before it crashed on me.
Why would you want to fuck up your Samourai build for no reason?

And don't tell me Pizarra's fight, besides acorns of earthquake and initiative focused mages, the only thing that can save you there is a good skewer weapon/build.

How you "fuck up" Samurai build? Samurai already starts with whirlwind so this is just fast whirlwind + samurai style reach = 2 feats. Is, according to you, samurai a feat starved class and this is about full Archmage (1 feat per 3 level)? Because otherwise i don't see the problem? Not saying that you are wrong just trying to understand. If not feats that leaves the weapon issue, making two weapons for one character is not economic, you are probably right here.

 

[FA7]

TIL: You can dispel damaged while casting condition o_O

Spoiler

I think that's a bug tho

 

[Darth Canoli]

How you "fuck up" Samurai build? Samurai already starts with whirlwind so this is just fast whirlwind + samurai style reach = 2 feats. Is, according to you, samurai a feat starved class and this is about full Archmage (1 feat per 3 level)? Because otherwise i don't see the problem? Not saying that you are wrong just trying to understand. If not feats that leaves the weapon issue, making two weapons for one character is not economic, you are probably right here.

Both.
With the original rules (Archmage) you only get 10 feats + starting ones depending on your race.
It's just enough for an attack/crit focused samourai + saving throws feats.
Arguably, you don't need more crit chances but you really do, because even with skewer, the toughest enemies have high AC and getting a roll > AC +5 isn't a given.

Gold and crystals are also an issue.

Now, if you play on baby mode, sure, what the hell, pick all the feats, max attributes, reduced enemy levels, reduced enemy ini.
Well, you don't even have to plan your build, now, do you?

 

[Desiderius]

Exactly like that, you create a file with the same name, overwrite the pre-existing token, and it takes the place of the original in-game.
For the end user, it'll be as simple as unzipping the file in the token folder and clicking "replace all".

It'll go like this:

1. Source for the bestiary is defined. It can be D&D, PF, WHF, whatever has the most comprehensive list of critters. If possible, everything from a single artist, to keep consistency in looks.
2. Vote on token style, i.e. square vs round, and border color.
3. Tokens get distributed amongst each contributor. We'll work only on monsters, not humans. For tokens with pertinent variations (like a dragon that can be white, black, green, etc.), you'll send me the picture, and I'll edit it to get the appropriate hues. Tokens with irrelevant variations, like the ones where it's just the same image but zoomed, will get everything replaced by a single one. Ain't got no time to waste on that kind of shit.
4. After setting a reasonable time-frame, we'll settle on a single online token creator configured to the same parameters, and everyone starts working his backlog (at an easy pace).
5. I gather the results, check that everything's working, zip it, and upload it.

Ok, count me in.

So, who's the fourth Dalton?
Avrell, are you there?

Through the first half of the game he turns a non-magic weapon into a magic weapon (and progressively more magic weapon), which is pretty handy given the lack of magic reachers and the limited ability to make/enhance your own whatever weapon you're using.

The endgame isn't the only part of the game with problems to solve and the better you solve the early/mid problems the easier the end gets where you have all kinds of other tools at your disposal.

Single weapon means you can't dual-wield. Whirlwind doesn't benefit from iteratives or Haste, but those are mid/late problems, not early. Sam/Whirlwind/Reach is (very) strong when other classes are weak, which is when you need it. And there's more to the game than crits. Hitting 24 squares instead of eight is virtually critting already, and that increased coverage lets you crit in a sense with Disarm as well with Ready vs Approach and Combat Reflexes. You can switch to a high crit weapon late for single targets if that's what you need and likewise can pick up Cleaves for your iteratives and move away from Whirlwind.

Bigger concern for me is that he has no spells, can't use scrolls, and does nothing to buff team.

But the early game is a cakewalk now with the extra content and weapons and equipment you gather in the village, that's why I was able to hoard xp to almost complete my Ironman run before it crashed on me.
Why would you want to fuck up your Samourai build for no reason?

And don't tell me Pizarra's fight, besides acorns of earthquake and initiative focused mages, the only thing that can save you there is a good skewer weapon/build.

I’m not fucking up anything. Playing class naturally lets you carry the team until everyone else develops.

Through the first half of the game he turns a non-magic weapon into a magic weapon (and progressively more magic weapon), which is pretty handy given the lack of magic reachers and the limited ability to make/enhance your own whatever weapon you're using.

The endgame isn't the only part of the game with problems to solve and the better you solve the early/mid problems the easier the end gets where you have all kinds of other tools at your disposal.

Single weapon means you can't dual-wield. Whirlwind doesn't benefit from iteratives or Haste, but those are mid/late problems, not early. Sam/Whirlwind/Reach is (very) strong when other classes are weak, which is when you need it. And there's more to the game than crits. Hitting 24 squares instead of eight is virtually critting already, and that increased coverage lets you crit in a sense with Disarm as well with Ready vs Approach and Combat Reflexes. You can switch to a high crit weapon late for single targets if that's what you need and likewise can pick up Cleaves for your iteratives and move away from Whirlwind.

Bigger concern for me is that he has no spells, can't use scrolls, and does nothing to buff team.

But the early game is a cakewalk now with the extra content and weapons and equipment you gather in the village, that's why I was able to hoard xp to almost complete my Ironman run before it crashed on me.
Why would you want to fuck up your Samourai build for no reason?

And don't tell me Pizarra's fight, besides acorns of earthquake and initiative focused mages, the only thing that can save you there is a good skewer weapon/build.

How you "fuck up" Samurai build? Samurai already starts with whirlwind so this is just fast whirlwind + samurai style reach = 2 feats. Is, according to you, samurai a feat starved class and this is about full Archmage (1 feat per 3 level)? Because otherwise i don't see the problem? Not saying that you are wrong just trying to understand. If not feats that leaves the weapon issue, making two weapons for one character is not economic, you are probably right here.

The alternatives are making two weapons anyway because they’re dual-wielding. If he’s talking about Disarm with Greater you get three Disarms at range with Reach, Ready vs Approach, and Combat Reflexes so you can really protect your team/hold down a choke.

The class does give you some bonus feats on top of the several ones it gives you for free and adds damage dice as you level. It’s not for pure damage whores but makes up for it with tactical flexibility. You can Whirlwind/Ready on turns you need to move then iterate and Cleave later when you’re in position for a full attack, and getting in position is easier with Reach.

 

[Darth Canoli]

The alternatives are making two weapons anyway because they’re dual-wielding.

Dual wielding a Samouraï...
Now I've read everything!
You know samourai sword style doesn't work with shields or dual wielding, right?

It’s not for pure damage whores

The whores are not the ones splitting you in two, that's the other way around, dude!

 

[Desiderius]

Dual wielding a Samouraï...
Now I've read everything!
You know samourai sword style doesn't work with shields or dual wielding, right?

Yes, dumbass, the alternatives are the other martial classes. That's what we're talking about.

Somehow I could tell you were a save feat taker. You do know that Sam gets Iron Will for free, right?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Some other martial classes works perfectly with 2H weapons like the Death Knight or the Barbarian.
Full Skewer damage builds, to rip into shreds demons in a single blow or two at most.

Other dual-wielder can do with one skewer weapon + one dispel weapon and you get a bunch of these, no need to craft unless you want some specific enchantments along with dispel.

Only a mantis requires 2-3 crafted weapons but you'll forge them through the whole game, not all at once.

 

[Desiderius]

Some other martial classes works perfectly with 2H weapons like the Death Knight or the Barbarian.
Full Skewer damage builds, to rip into shreds demons in a single blow or two at most.

Other dual-wielder can do with one skewer weapon + one dispel weapon and you get a bunch of these, no need to craft unless you want some specific enchantments along with dispel.

Only a mantis requires 2-3 crafted weapons but you'll forge them through the whole game, not all at once.

Right, and I'm saying you can use the crafted Reach for crowds and swap out a found two-hander for single-targets. Same principle.

You can, because I'm swapping out my Sam for a Champion grappler anyway, which I'll trade in for the Succubus. At least that the plan. As you say early game is easy enough played well that it's overkill, but there is a lot going on there.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

The alternatives are making two weapons anyway because they’re dual-wielding.

Dual wielding a Samouraï...
Now I've read everything!
You know samourai sword style doesn't work with shields or dual wielding, right?

Ni Ten Ichi Ryu, my boy. Also if I rolled a half giant, I'd definitely dual wield two samurai.

 

[razvedchiki]

nani?

 

[Serus]

How you "fuck up" Samurai build? Samurai already starts with whirlwind so this is just fast whirlwind + samurai style reach = 2 feats. Is, according to you, samurai a feat starved class and this is about full Archmage (1 feat per 3 level)? Because otherwise i don't see the problem? Not saying that you are wrong just trying to understand. If not feats that leaves the weapon issue, making two weapons for one character is not economic, you are probably right here.

Both.
With the original rules (Archmage) you only get 10 feats + starting ones depending on your race.
It's just enough for an attack/crit focused samourai + saving throws feats.
Arguably, you don't need more crit chances but you really do, because even with skewer, the toughest enemies have high AC and getting a roll > AC +5 isn't a given.

Gold and crystals are also an issue.

Now, if you play on baby mode, sure, what the hell, pick all the feats, max attributes, reduced enemy levels, reduced enemy ini.
Well, you don't even have to plan your build, now, do you?

You do, know that there is something more than just Archmage and "baby mode"? Right? Something that doesn't include "all feats, max attributes, etc...". Hell, people here - including you iirc, talked about playing Archmage with 1 feat per 2 levels as balanced.

Can i ask a personal question? The way you react to some posts lately (not just mine) seems very irrational to me.
So the question is:
Are you a woman having a period?

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah I'm too old to play Archmage. Enchanter is about right for now, but you still get a sense of what would be viable on higher difficulties and what's barely good enough.

 

[anvi]

So far so much easier the second time. Also my new team kick ass. This Samurai is hitting stuff for 30+ in the starter village. None of my last guys could do that.

 

[Jermu]

For mantis monk finesse weapons are probably better than bare fists (at least mid-late game)? Also I read somewhere that high level monk fist dmg is bugged did that get fixed?

 

[Desiderius]

For mantis monk finesse weapons are probably better than bare fists (at least mid-late game)? Also I read somewhere that high level monk fist dmg is bugged did that get fixed?

There’s no DEX to damage and you get WIS to AC so I wouldn’t worry much about DEX at all. Just enough to get two-weapon.

 

[Pink Eye]

I have forgot what page I was on in this thread. Anyways finally bought the game on steam after going broke with new computer. Super excited to jump into a new run.