From Software Lyric Suite's own Sekiro corner

[Andnjord]

Let the man have his fun, you heartless bastards

 

[janior]

why every new game has to have dumb stealth mechanics?

This kind of retarded comments shows that sometimes Codex against is really just a mix between paranoia and try hard retardation.

No you retard, it's not about "every game" having to have stealth. You are literally playing a ninja (shinobi same shit), on a game that was originally supposed to be a follow up to a series where the word "stealth" was literally in the title. How could this game NOT have stealth?

protag looks nothing like a ninja or shinobi so no it does not make sense, you retard.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Yeah, stealth is obviously a concept that was dropped very early on in development and never got fleshed out (I personally think that's a good thing). Just kill shit head on with your sword.

 

[Silverfish]

why every new game has to have dumb stealth mechanics?

I sent very polite letters to most major publishers.

 

[cvv]

Stealth in Sekiro seems to me pretty much standard popamole stealth not that much unlike the kind you'd find in something like AssCreed games. I do use it occasionally to thin the herd a little but playing this as straight up stealth game just seems unfun to me.

I'd go even further. As much as I love the game a lot of the systems are half-assed and badly thought out. Stealth was a mistake, some enemies are straight-up tuned for it, i.e. it's a pain in the ass to fight the club fatsos if you don't instagib them. The combat is so enjoyable, why would you wanna instagib mobsies.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Stealth in Sekiro seems to me pretty much standard popamole stealth not that much unlike the kind you'd find in something like AssCreed games. I do use it occasionally to thin the herd a little but playing this as straight up stealth game just seems unfun to me. Not that I mind you avoiding gitting gud as much as possible, more entertainment potential for us. You won't avoid learning to fight either way.

I don't know, enemy placement is pretty good for a game where stealth is supposed to be an afterthrought (if you care about not getting spotted at all it sort of starts feeling like Commandos). Keep in mind i played a trillion of Thief custom maps in the past decade so stealth is literally in my veins and sometimes i instinctively try to do it even in games that don't have any lmao, so i just had to try to explore how far it went in this game. Personally, i would have no trouble whatsoever playing the whole game like this, but i think cvv brings a good point:

The combat is so enjoyable, why would you wanna instagib mobsies.

Didn't think of it this way.

BTW, there's actually another reason i went with stealth and that is i'm trying to avoid grinding. Since fighting might require me to restart maps, it means i may end up with a lot of accumulated Sens or XP. I played enough FromSoft games to realize grinding can break those games prematurely. Even though there's no leveling in this game i'm afraid of getting too ahead in terms of skill points or money.

[EDIT] BTW you guys are ignoring the fact the devs WANT you to stealth. Just the fact you can heavesdrop on guards ala Thief or NOLF makes it mandatory in my view, at least in terms of exploration, at which point, why not go all the way and the only argument against it is the one cvv put forth.

 

[Lyric Suite]

~ By This Axe I Rule! (Part 1) ~
​

I think you guys were right and i'm now seeing that stealth may be a bad approach. More specifically, i think cvv was proven correctly since as soon as i faced those shielded guys, i was able to just cheese them by tricking the AI to follow me which allowed me to take the first out without the slightest effort and i could have easily decided to do the same with the second one. I tried to spar with the remaining guy and it didn't really go that well.

I think from now on, what i'm going to do is try to mix up both approaches. I'll do ghosting in the full Thief sense (no detection, no kills) during the exploration or scouting fase, then just go on a murder spree when it comes to killing enemies. I may still rely on some stealth kills when it comes to the weaker enemies just because they aren't particularly interesting but i'll be sure to experience new challenges in full from now on.

Spoiler

Since you guys keep giving me grief about this shit, i decided to take out the guy blocking the pathway in open combat, didn't end well for him lul:



An axe you say? Now why would a shinobi need an axe:



Something tells me this is important and i'm not just being told because the game wants to help me find gear, sort of like the Flame Barrel and the Chained Ogre. This also means i must be close to a boss fight.

BTW, it seems the memory begins as the raid was still underway, judging by the fact both this guy and the one earlier with the feathered get up were just about to die when i found them. Indeed, it seems the bandits are still searching the houses and some of the inhabitants are hiding in places:



Seems i got here just in the nick of time to help save some of those people. I rush towards them and take the first guy out with a deathblow:



And then i get into a sparring match with the other dude who presents an interesting challenge with his delayed heavy axe attacks. The commotion alerts someone nearby so i make an hasty retreat but it was just this one dude:



I take him out quickly just in case more start coming down that flight of stairs, and i go check out how the inhabitants are doing:



Now this is interesting. So this was no random raid as that merchant guy had me believe. I need to talk to him again and see if i can make him come out clean about this. Before leaving she gives me some poison curatives, which makes me wonder what i'm about to face up ahead.

Next house up i meet a guy who calls me a good for nothing and then accuses me of being a filthy traitor:




Of course, this is actually a good question. Where the hell was Wolf when this whole thing started? For a guy who supposedly has sworn to protect the moon child, with his very life if need be, he is doing a pretty shit job all around. I can sympathize with this dude, since i now lost this kid twice.

On the last house here i get a chance to heavesdrop on an interesting conversation:





Who was this? The fact i'm eavesdropping suggests this is an enemy, but from the looks of it he appears to be one of the inhabitants, a guard or a soldier perhaps, who also seems to think i'm part of the raid.

From across the street, i meet this polite friendly looter:



He infers i'm a shinobi and then asks me if i'm looking for something. Is this common among the shinobi? To just constantly lose shit only to go out looking for it? He then tries to claim the house for himself, but realizing who is he talking with, and guessing if i wanted to i could just take the house by force, he cleverly tries to direct my greed to a better target:




Just because he appears to be a smart dude i decide to spare his life. I see a trail that goes through the bamboo forest but it seems the goodie from the other side can only be reached up hill, likely from the same place mentioned by that polite looter:



Before proceding up the stairway, i have two more houses to clear. On one of them, i discover yet another interesting piece of information:



This bandit is definitely gonna get some good karma for this:



But this good karma doesn't include not getting butchered by a wondering shinobi i'm afraid. After the previous encounter, i now know better than to assume houses are empty here:



But you know what? I wanna see if he was really going to come out as i'm butchering the bandits outside. Turns out not only did he show up in a hurry, but the commotion even managed to draw some oversized chicken from the nearby house lmao:



In fact, once i get there i see the people living here were actually keeping a total of five of those giant chickens in a yard barely big enough to fit two of them:



I mean maybe the eggs are delicious but i'm not sure if its worth trying to roost hyper aggressive human killing raven dark chickens.

BTW, i did in fact grab the axe from the Buddha temple. I'm pretty sure i'm not going to incur any negative karma since that shit was clearly meant for me.

I now loot the last item here and behold, praise the metroidvania!



Now that i have a direct path to the Sulputor's Idol, i can finally make my way towards the staircase. There, i find a new challenge, which alas, can easily be cheesed with stealth:



This makes me rethink my whole approach in this game as it appears stealth is just becoming a way to simply miss out on much of the fun. As a test, i decide to take him on:



This goes as well as expected, which is to say, not at all. There appears to be no way to actually spar with this guy, at least on this initial skirmish. He does give you an opportunity to do a ton of vitality damage but it's very sporadic and the last thing i want to do is just wait around forever for that one opening. Eventually i manage to break him open for a deathblow, but it didn't really feel that satisfying:



Stealth does indeed seem to be just a way to avoid dealing with this game's challenges. Now that i have a direct path to the Sculptur's Idol, i think i'm going to return home to reassess the situation. I already guessed how to deal with those guys (of course the game spells it out for you basically so there wasn't much to guess) so i need to sort out a few things. I also now have some saved up skill points which i think is time to spend on some new skill. I also better use my Sens to buy something since after getting past those shielded guys i explored a bit further and it seems i found what appears to be another boss, and i better get ready for it.

 

[gabel]

Stealth is pretty good in this game; it's neither too powerful nor is it useless.
It can help you overcome some difficult encounters, but it doesn't trivialise them.
Some examples of this are just around a couple of corners of where you currently are.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Stealth is pretty good in this game; it's neither too powerful nor is it useless.
It can help you overcome some difficult encounters, but it doesn't trivialise them.

Well, in the case of those shielded guys it does. It's way too easy to lure them while remaining unseen once you figure out how to do it properly and not sparring with them made me miss out on their patterns and the mechanic necessary to get past them.

I do however agree that stealth is better than what its reputation appears to be around here.

This is why from now on i'm going to mix both styles. Strict stealth but also outright violence when i see some interesting challenge.

 

[Lyric Suite]

BTW, does XP gain slow down? I got 7 skill points and i didn't even grind anything, just redid a few runs on the Ashina Outskirts while i was still trying to get my bearings with the game. Of course i haven't died much (at all actually aside for that encounter with the last mini-boss), likely because of all the stealthing i've been doing lmao. I guess the game is balanced with you losing out XP and Sens every now and then from death. At the rate i'm gaining XP feels i can max out all the skills before i even get to NG+.

 

[gabel]

Don't worry, XP requirements needed for additional skill points rise significantly later on.

 

[Andnjord]

To add to what Gabel said you get xp quickly early on to get the basic abilities (get Miri counter ASAP!) so your character can function quickly without overwhelming you all at once. Think of it as if you were still in a semi-tutorial phase.

 

[Andnjord]

Also:

-finds big ol’ axe
-sees enemy with big ol’ shied
…
-profit?

EDIT: Missed Lyric's last pararaph, woops.

 

[gabel]

[...] I already guessed how to deal with those guys (of course the game spells it out for you basically so there wasn't much to guess) so i need to sort out a few things. [...]

You don't have to backseat LS.
He's gonna make it without us spoiling it for him.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Also:

-finds big ol’ axe
-sees enemy with big ol’ shied
…
-profit?

Ho yeah as i said i figured that out already which is why i used that title. Ain't i clever with that shit? Lmao.

 

[Multidirectional]

I'd go even further. As much as I love the game a lot of the systems are half-assed and badly thought out. Stealth was a mistake, some enemies are straight-up tuned for it, i.e. it's a pain in the ass to fight the club fatsos if you don't instagib them. The combat is so enjoyable, why would you wanna instagib mobsies.

Agree except I have no issue fighting club fatties head on as long as it's one at a time. They do that charged attack a lot that is easy to deflect and always leaves them tired for few seconds, so they end up doing half the work in posture breaking them. Just make sure to stay away when they do their perilous sperg out.

Stealth is definitely the weakest aspect of this game for me, it was disappointing to see enemy awareness indicators in a From game like I was playing some typical western popamole. Of course stealthing through encounters is at least harder than in your typical AssCreed or the like but still why would we do it when it isn't even the fun part of the game? Save for LS here of course, who just didn't have any sense knocked into him by bosses yet.

 

[Lyric Suite]

So i just had the axe made and the description flats out says that you can break shields with it. So much for mystery.

BTW, is this game like Souls that it spawns 5 hours long videos discussing scraps of lore? For instance, the axe mentions the owner of the prostetic was from Sunken Valley. So is the poison curative the woman inside the house gives you. Are those things connected? Is there a 2 hours long VaatiVidya video that explains the connection?

Ho, before moving on i decided to comb the lake and ended up finding another hidden carp. So now i got 5 scales, enough to buy that skill from the jar dude. I assume eventually you can get his entire inventory, i don't have to hold on those things, right?

 

[Strange Fellow]

I don't get skill points because I keep dying so much. I'm a bit further on than LS (took a peek at the last update) and I've only gotten 3 skill points total so far.

Just for some added perspective

 

[Andnjord]

I don't get skill points because I keep dying so much. I'm a bit further on than LS (took a peek at the last update) and I've only gotten 3 skill points total so far.

Just for some added perspective

Endure...in enduring grow strong.

 

[Lyric Suite]

(get Miri counter ASAP!)

Beetween the two options that i have right now, this one seemed better anyway. The one where you can kill multiple enemies in a sweep seemed pointless. The only multiple enemies in this game are average mooks, and who cares about those.

This Miri thing plus that jump stomp thing is two things i wish i had when i faced the general earlier. Took both for a spin to the friendly zombie guy and i think i got hang of it. At first i struggled a bit because my finger memory for thrust attacks was on deflect and not pressing B, but eventually i got it:



BTW, how do you guys like the quality of those new uploads? My new OBS settings yield local files that are twice if not three times as large as before but on youtube it seems they look better at least. I mean, at 1440p if you drop to 1080p it may actually look worse than my previous uploads i have no idea how that is even possible.

Ho almost forgot. I'm embarassed to say this but i JUST realized that the difference between a block and deflection is that the deflection has sparks (i think, right?). I figured that out JUST now while making this video lmao. I think somebody may have mentioned this to me before but my brain didn't process it at the time.

 

[Andnjord]

(get Miri counter ASAP!)

Beetween the two options that i have right now, this one seemed better anyway. The one where you can skill multiple enemies in a sweep seemed pointless. The only multiple enemies in this game are average mooks, and who cares about those.

This Miri thing plus that jump stomp thing is two things i wish i had when i faced the general earlier. Took both for a spin to the friendly zombie guy and i think i got hang of it. At first i struggled a bit because my finger memory for thrust attacks was on deflect and not pressing B, but eventually i got it:



BTW, how do you guys like the quality of those new uploads? My new OBS settings yield files that are twice if not three times as large as before but on youtube it seems they look better at least. I mean, at 1440p if you drop to 1080p it may actually look worse than my previous upload i have no idea how that is even possible.

Ho almost forgot. I'm embarassed to say this but i JUST realize that the difference between a block and deflection is that the deflection has sparks (i think, right?). I figured that out JUST now while making this video lmao.

Fuck, I have to reinstall it too now!

Also, some extra info about the Mikiri Counter, spoilered in case you want to figure that stuff out for yourself:

BEWARE!

You can always deflect those thrusts "normaly", but the window to do so is extremely small for boss encounters compared to the much more generous mikiri counter.

Ho almost forgot. I'm embarassed to say this but i JUST realized that the difference between a block and deflection is that the deflection has sparks (i think, right?). I figured that out JUST now while making this video lmao. I think somebody may have mentioned this to me before but my brain didn't process it at the time.

Oh yeah, you get both the audio AND the visual cue, nice design from FromSoft.

EDIT: Turns out I never uninstalled it, feelsgoodman

 

[Lyric Suite]

I ain't touching spoilers if you think they are important enough to hide under spoiler tags. If they weren't, you wouldn't.

 

[Andnjord]

It's the kind of small stuff that you might figure out at some point giving a 2% extra knowledge of how the combat works, similar to the audio cue about getting a perfect deflection I mentionned earlier. You're right that I should reserve the spoilers for important stuff so you know to never click on them until after finishing the game.

Here's what I said:
"You can always deflect those thrusts "normaly", but the window to do so is extremely small for boss encounters compared to the much more generous mikiri counter."

 

[Strange Fellow]

I don't get skill points because I keep dying so much. I'm a bit further on than LS (took a peek at the last update) and I've only gotten 3 skill points total so far.

Just for some added perspective

Endure...in enduring grow strong.

That would be fine, except that as far as I understand

Spoiler

all the NPCs are dying to the scarlet rot or whatever it's called this time, while I'm smacking my head against walls. That's pretty lame and gay if you ask me.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I don't get skill points because I keep dying so much.

Try stealth lmao.