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Magic the Gathering Arena

Discussion in 'The Gazebo' started by Berekän, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

    Multi-headed Cow
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    There's always this, too.

    https://scryfall.com/sets/pana
     
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  2. Thac0 Maybe we have trash taste ... Patron

    Thac0
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    https://aetherhub.com/Article/MTG-Arena-Hidden-Advanced-deck-builder-options

    Arena has a fuckton of hidden search modifiers which can only be applied over the text field. Back when Kiora wasnt powercrept to hell and back by Uro I used power >= 4 a lot
     
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  3. spectre Arcane

    spectre
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    Any bets on the monday B&R announcement?

    They probably won't be touching companions just yet, they'll probably start by diddling with the rules framework (make them modify your starting hand size or cost an additional card to play)
    which either unfucks them or nerfs them to oblivion.

    All the kiddies whine about Agent of Treachery, but he's rotating soon, so I doubt he'll be going. He's been around for oever a year, so I don't believe it's the actual problem card.

    If anything at all has to go, my bet would be on Lukka, they never learn that oatmeal of druids effects are always quick to ruin the oh so fragile environment of standard.
     
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  4. Thac0 Maybe we have trash taste ... Patron

    Thac0
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    3feri and I will buy the Ikoria Mastery just as a personal thanks. Will probably not happen tho, they have been weirdly adamant about never banning anything that has a Teferi in it. Someone in the team has a boner for the old time wizard.

    I see Treachery as relatively likely to get the boot. Its not like anyone is using him for something fair at the moment, Thassa blink and simic ramp arent really decks atm. He is problematic only in the sense that he can steal lands, which is a cancerous effect. Not a problem if you dont turbo him out or flicker him to oblivion tho.

    If Treachery doesnt get the boot Lukka has to. But Lukka is a new Mythic and Ikoria prices are already in the gutter. They are not gonna ban him for jewish reasons.

    I cant see them banning Fires as some people speculate.

    6 cards + Companion starting hand will highly likely be what they will do. Kills all Companions competetively except the very top of the crop, but they wreak too much havoc on all formats atm. They got a vintage power level ban.

    Winota will get the boot in Historic. Maybe even in all BO1 queues on Arena. It has a silly winrate.
     
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  5. lukaszek the determinator

    lukaszek
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    my bet is on hand size

    winota seem unfair with her not having to attack but i doubt they will add such ruling to her card. Also trigger once like one would expect from such card.

    thassa always seemed strong with her 4 mana... Still its not as common card as id expect so i doubt she will be touched.

    my wish was always on something happening to that simic land dropping galore... I doubt anything will be done as they keep printing more instead with each expansion so... will only get worse I guess.

    Flare is silly, would be funny if they killed it. I would see less wr lurrus decks for sure
     
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  6. spectre Arcane

    spectre
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    Yeah, I don't know what they've been smoking pushing all that ramp. Especially with lands being sacrosanct apparently, so we can't even armageddon this shit back in its place.
    I don't mind creature ramp, enchantment ramp is also fine, but the way things are, people don't even use stuff like Wolfwillow Haven (and a lot of decks would absolutely kill for this shit one rotation back.
     
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  7. new fucking guy Learned Patron

    new fucking guy
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    I think they should just ban lukka, that card has been proved unplayable in creature decks anyway so it only targets the lukka-agent deck. Entire situation makes me think of the marvel emrakul energy deck years back. They banned emrakul and people thought that was weird already, because emrakul is so slow without the marvel. Banning agent would feel even weirder since he's not as good.
    Winota is just a retarded card, doesn't lead to a good game ever. It's one of those timmy cards but they pushed her too hard, probably should've said "under something cmc". Let it die.
    Everything else seems fine in standard. Companions are a bitch in eternal formats but the good ones have been banned already so w/e. Making them the 7th card in your hand would stop people from freerolling them so that would be good.
     
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  8. lukaszek the determinator

    lukaszek
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    i see it in each gayuda deck
     
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  9. Dawkinsfan69 Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

    Dawkinsfan69
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    what they really should do is take all the decks that got 5+ wins in the arena tourny and ban every single card in each of those decks

    buuut they ain't gonna do that lmao so I think agent needs a ban for sure, I get that it's not broken if you hard cast it BUT nobody's ever going to put it in a deck where they plan on hardcasting it AND you can't expect WoTC to just ban every card that cheats mana and stop making mana cheat cards forever, even if they ban the enablers in standard agent will inevitably fuck historic and other modes
     
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  10. Thac0 Maybe we have trash taste ... Patron

    Thac0
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    Ill take one mtg stock crash for 500 Alex. MTG benefits hard from its reluctant banning policy compared to games like Yu Gi Oh. It just used to be coupled to a sensible balancing team that favoured reactibility over offense in play.
     
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  11. Dawkinsfan69 Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

    Dawkinsfan69
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    ya idk what's been going on but it just feels like the power level difference between one of the T0 decks and any other decks is waaaaaaay too huge. You just can't build a normal deck these days because by turn 3 opp has lethal or your lands are stolen it's nuts
     
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  12. Thac0 Maybe we have trash taste ... Patron

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    Mtg balance is kinda cyclical. The disparity between Jank and T1 ebbs and flows like the tide. You have sets like Battle for Zendikar where the Eldrazi break multiple formats, then it chills a bit again. Kaladesh breask the game, Ixalan and Dominaria are chill. But we have been in a really long state of high power T1 ever since WAR and Eldraine. I for one hope that we get a few low power buffer sets with some ruthless bans again.
     
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  13. new fucking guy Learned Patron

    new fucking guy
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    lukka and winota are a bit more than mana cheat cards, agent was fine before they rolled in
    they're more like this card and look at that fucking cmc
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. spectre Arcane

    spectre
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    I agree, the power level is so screwed up entire swaths of cards were rendered unplayable. And most of this shit isn't going away on rotation (though no agent will be a good start probably), so I'm a tad skeptical if they manage to pull out from this vicious circle in time without
    fucking up standard real bad. No biggie, though. Historic is the better format anyways.

    Paradoxically, Winnoughta is good in this regard, when was the last time you saw Hanged Executioners, Alirias, Enraptured or Ferocious Pup being played? I have a sweet spot for Neoform, maybe that's why I kinda enjoyed brewing this thing for a bit,
    can't say the winrate was impressive, plenty of shit just shuts it down. Although I did enjoy burying one fucker under a fuckton of Gobbo and Reflection tokens after he had the nerve to "good game" me after an Unmoored Ego.

    Whoa, you're actually seeing Yiruddah around? Thought that shit was beaten to extinction.

    Yesterday I got me a few beers and decided to go for Diamond this season. I think I've seen the entirety of the meta: Obosh RDW, regular RDW, Yorion Fires, Macrofaggot Fires, Shamrock Value, BGR Food, Lurrus Sac, Lurrus Cycling, Lurrus BRW Knights, Lurrus Green/White Bogles, three flavors of Winnoughta (lots of crappy vanilla GRW and the four-color one - one was interesting, featuring Magic Negro and Mystical Dispute, which really help with most of the typical shit you do to shut the deck down, but at a cost of being oh so fucking slow...), UG mutate. Interestingly enough, not one Cyberclaw Terror and not even one Flash.

    For the Tier 1 push, I actually did some work on lukaszek UB flash mutate thingy. I ran into a streak of Lurrus, Yorion, Winota, and wasn't really going anywhere, needed something to have decent game vs. all the three. Started with UG Flash, which immediately triggered many: opponent goes fiest, T1 Ebonics Legion. Tried to dick around with UR flash, but it didn't really feel there. The only thing it really seemed to gain was Sea Dasher Octopus.

    So anyways, here's the list I ended up with with comments:

    Show Spoiler

    Deck
    3 Pouncing Shoreshark (IKO) 64
    4 Cunning Nightbonder (IKO) 219
    4 Quench (RNA) 48
    1 Negate (RIX) 44
    2 Sinister Sabotage (GRN) 54
    3 Ashiok's Erasure (THB) 43
    4 Stonecoil Serpent (ELD) 235
    4 Dirge Bat (IKO) 84
    3 Brineborn Cutthroat (M20) 50
    4 Sea-Dasher Octopus (IKO) 66
    7 Island (MIR) 336
    2 Mystical Dispute (ELD) 58
    2 Castle Locthwain (ELD) 241
    2 Dismal Backwater (M20) 245
    2 Temple of Deceit (THB) 245
    4 Watery Grave (GRN) 259
    2 Blast Zone (WAR) 244
    2 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244
    2 Zagoth Triome (IKO) 259
    1 Swamp (ELD) 261
    1 Slitherwisp (IKO) 208
    2 Heartless Act (IKO) 91


    Sideboard
    3 Duress (M19) 94

    Instant speed mutating onto Stonecoil Serpent is probably my most favorite thing to do at the moment. Protection from multicolor comes into play more often than you'd believe (What? Teferi does nothing? Why are you able to block my Yorion?)
    and trample lets you roll over all the cat bakeries and 1/1 tokens. Typically, flash tends to crumble to cheap shit that manages to resolve. Not this one.
    Start off with a turn one 1/1 Serpent, slap an octopus on top on the next turn and you're getting a respectable 3/3 that can actualy punch through and draw that card.
    You need to get the feel of Dirge Bat as itan important piece in this deck. Most optimal sequence is start with a small serpent, move to Nightbondage, get a turn three Dirge Bat, then mutate away with octopus and shoreshark.
    Mutating Dirge Bat happens infrequently, unless it's heavily discounted. A flashed in 3/3 catches a lot of weenies by surprise, that's how it gets most of its kills.

    An important inclusion was the 2x Blast Zone. As you can see, I had to fuck up the mana base really bad to make it happen, with way too many tapduals than I'm otherwise comfortable with, I even brought triomes on board,
    and then it finally fucking clicked. Blast Zone is important because it sweeps a good bunch of the shit ran by Obosh and that Lurrus Bogles Enchantress thing in one good sweep. Even lets you kill all their Witches Ovens.

    You can still diddle with this list, I started with the Durex in main because I figured Yorion is the guy to beat, then swapped them for Heartless Acts when Winnoughta started stealing muh bike.
    If I were to take it to Bo3, it'll be a definite #1 in the board.
    Ashiok's Erasure feels great when you're casting it discounted for two, not terribly great when it's not discounted, the right number seems between 2 and 3.
    I like to draw it every now and then, but the game keeps giving me doubles or even triples.
    I started with a full set of Brineborns, it's a decent mutate target, but Stonecoil just offers so much more, so it takes a back seat to 3x.
    I think I only drew Slitherwisp once, wasn't relevant when I did. You might just cut it and enjoy a 60 card pile or swap for an Omen of the Seas.



    Not a terribly good example as iirc it's one of the coaster-grade rares you get in the precons.
    I think 2GG sorcery speed wold be fair for such an effect, maybe slap a triple G on it just to make sure it wouldn't fuck up standard.
     
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  15. Ranselknulf Arcane Patron

    Ranselknulf
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I've started to use Lotus Fields because of their hexproof ability. Make sure to keep a few timely counterspells of some sort on hand also.

    I've managed to overcome getting multiple lands destroyed and or stolen, but its easier to just prevent it from happening altogether.

    Have plenty of exile cards and counter cards along side whatever deck you're building. There's no reason not to at this point, I'm p. sure most colors have counterspells available to them at this point.
     
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  16. lukaszek the determinator

    lukaszek
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    yeah i dont like that card anymore, cost of that one is deal breaker

    dunno why i dislike that card but it is growing on me

    dunno why you gave up on flying pirates?

    I value subdual over heartless act
    you seem to dislike mantle, I like to allow stuff like lukka to enter board and block agent steal with it.

    im surprised to see you use quenches over negates, thought you hate that stuff.

    I dislike brineborn as I tend to mutate during my turn often

    will try some blasting, didnt think of destroying ovens and such.

    quite often in casual queue

    im surprised there is no single brazen stealer, i like their 3 attack push
     
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  17. spectre Arcane

    spectre
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    It really helps in matchups that would otherwise fuck you. I took it to Standard Event yesterday
    (solid 6:3) and WG All that Glitters looks like it's the new RDW. Bring as many duals as possible, can't stress this enough.
    Only start cutting duals when you start losing games over coming into play tapped.

    Not me. Negate does fuck all for Lose-a-lotta and various flavors of aggro.
    Does pretty much the same vs. Fires. The important bit about 2 mana counterspells is catching the magic negro and it does just that.

    I used to run two, suffers from the Erasure problem, it's great when discounted, okay when not.
    It's one of those cards to put in and out of sideboard. That +1 power actually won me a game once.

    Blocking agent is a nice play. On one occassion, it eventually lead to a shameful concede by the fires guy,
    I fizzled one agent, forced a block or lose Lukka, countered two other agents and when he resolved another Lukka, turns out he ran out of stuff to oat in.

    Surprised me as well, as I tend to put it in everything that's blue.
    I figured I'm doing enough enough bounce with sharks. There were games where I kept bouncing two things each turn for three turns straight.
    Fun. Would have won that one too if I mutated over a serpent rather than slitherwisp, couldn't kill that rdw fast enough.

    Respect the guy and his spikey penis.
    Yeah, I started with four and keep lowering the count. Might actually put those two pirates back in. Consider this one a flex slot.
    A cheap mutater with flash would be ideal in this slot.
    Though I find that octopus draws me just enough cards.

    Meta call perhaps, I only saw a few mutate decks.
    I figure, since I'm running black, I might just kill it
     
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  18. lukaszek the determinator

    lukaszek
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    ok, that stonecoil wrecks 3feri indeed. What I never took into account is that serpent comes with counters, meaning your mutations get quite powerful. I can see now why you would chose to drop mantle, that +1/+1 is a game changer but you are getting it from elsewhere.
     
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  19. lukaszek the determinator

    lukaszek
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    would be cool if they not only reduced hand size for companions but also put it into your hand -> thus allowing discard
     
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  20. spectre Arcane

    spectre
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    Yeah, that shit was made to slap enchantments on it. I'm surprised more people don't play it in that GazWyb Enchantress shiznit.

    So, I put Pirates back in, but they feel a bit redundant. Swapped to Brazen Borrowers. Definitely feels like a slot I could do better with.
    I'm entertaining the thought of Carnariums. Not a great card to use with Nightbondage, but lots of tokens or weenie recursion are an Achilles' G-spot to the point that I'd be happy to even kill one or two of my own.
    Rest of the creatures should be robust enough to live through it. Again, definitely something to put in the SB.
    Or, I should just accept that aggro on the play - 2x fervent champion means fuck that, let them win.

    Pictured: Preventing attempted bike theft. Runs rather well despite the shuffler being a cunt again, trying to convince me that I can't play this game (and I did get a bunch of extra octopus draws).
    The sore shark went through the typical life cycle of Serpent > Octopus > Shark.
    [​IMG]
     
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  21. lukaszek the determinator

    lukaszek
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    today 90% of decks I face in gold queue are winota. Remaining 10% are mostly mono red obosh. I think people can see writing on the wall and are trying to milk at as much as possible.

    Wonder if I got time to get some free wildcards back?

    with that mono red obosh annoying me I feel like grabbing it too :negative:
     
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  22. lukaszek the determinator

    lukaszek
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    trololo

     
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  23. spectre Arcane

    spectre
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    Wow, they actually had the stones to ban Fires. Are we getting wildcards? I could use the whole eight.

    The companion rule change feels eeeeeeeh. Additional cost feels both arbitrary and unwieldy. Only good thing is the card can now be interacted with in hand. Though why go for the tempo loss, of all things?
     
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  24. Thac0 Maybe we have trash taste ... Patron

    Thac0
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    Impressively mediocre rule changes. Killing Fires is fine, it had its days in the sun. I agree with the Treachery ban 100%.

    The new companion rules just show that the mechanic is badly designed. It will effectively neuter most of them.

    Any calls on what will be the deck to beat now? I think Winnota survives the Treachery ban. Lukka should be dead until a new combo is discovered. No Yorion + no Treachery hurts a lot.
     
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  25. spectre Arcane

    spectre
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    I'll have to see how it feels under the new rules, but Lurrus in particular seems to be thoroughly fucked. Those decks typically run around 20 mana, so tapping out entirely will simply be too much.
    Cat Oven can probably get away with spending (3) mana to do nothing, the GW All that Glitters thing doesn't really love that. Lurrus Cycling might probably afford this,
    but I think this deck doesn't really do anything with Lurrus.

    Not sure about the Spees Snake, he as always my least favorite so I didn't play it too much. It isn't really aiming to cast Yorion on curve, so theoretically one could always make time to pay the companionship fee
    (sounds like an escort type of arrangement, tbh), then there's stuff like Kaheera, Collector and that singleton guy which seem thoroughly nurf'd.

    I think Obosh is hit the least by the new rule. It gets plenty of mana from Banners and has many opportunities to just pay the (3) (if it were (2) it would be close to unnoticeable.
    Still that's one fewer activation of Castle Embereth or Beniz of Ass, but can be done rather leisurely.

    Yeah, Lose-a-lotta will just keep pulling Kenriths and Elite Guardmages. Can still obnoxious, but you can often just survive and wipe afterwards.

    More seriously though, Fires did a very decent job of keeping aggro in check, unless something steps in (UGx ramp?) be ready for loads of Embercleave. Perhaps they're aiming for a the rock papers scissors: Winota beats Aggro, Aggro beats Ramp/Control, Ramp/Control beats Winota kind of thing?

    Another interesting bit, Reclamation could prolly afford the companion tax with hardly noticing it, but it's the only deck that didn't get a companion.

    EDIT:
    In any case, let me take a moment to say, Fires dindu nufink wrong.
    It's been jolly good fun hitting ass and leg for twenty out of nowhere with Okietra into Cavalier on turn five.:salute:

    While we're at it, I'm waiting for my wildcards. I crafted those effin Cavaliers just for this deck,
    of course I'm not getting them back.
     
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