KickStarter Mechajammer (formerly Copper Dreams) - cyberpunk RPG from Whalenought Studios

[mediocrepoet]

Latest iteration of the beta is mad casualized. Keyboard movement inputs have been removed and you now no longer move one space at a time (this change is probably to accomodate using vehicles more fluidly I assume), which sucks imo. More importantly, the game is way, way easier for some reason (a combination of AI and damage changes I think). I suspect that the difficulty was turned down to accomodate the new movement system, so the player doesn't accidentally constantly walk through a hail of gunfire, but as it is there is basically no challenge anymore. Whereas before, the pit fights were actually fun and hard, and if not careful you could easily die very quickly. Now, I can mill around a large group of enemies and walk away basically unscathed. Massive decline. What is wrong with these devs? One step forward, then two steps backward, over and over again.

Don't worry, this is just step one of the next redesign. It'll be completely different next week.

 

[Whalenought_Joe]

Latest iteration of the beta is mad casualized. Keyboard movement inputs have been removed and you now no longer move one space at a time (this change is probably to accomodate using vehicles more fluidly I assume), which sucks imo. More importantly, the game is way, way easier for some reason (a combination of AI and damage changes I think). I suspect that the difficulty was turned down to accomodate the new movement system, so the player doesn't accidentally constantly walk through a hail of gunfire, but as it is there is basically no challenge anymore. Whereas before, the pit fights were actually fun and hard, and if not careful you could easily die very quickly. Now, I can mill around a large group of enemies and walk away basically unscathed. Massive decline. What is wrong with these devs? One step forward, then two steps backward, over and over again.

We've been tweaking some AI for enemies from the starting map areas on the other test branch, I think the enemy ai class that the deathmatch grunts use just got a little lobotomized in the most recent build. Slug ammo rolls ~3d4 right now, with better aim adding up to a few pips, and most armors are just going to reduce that a few numbers. With health being limited to average ~30, a few hits can be pretty rough throughout the entire game.

The step-by-step is sorely missed, we agree. We added in the companion pathfinding for the player to easier navigate after camera panning, which we wanted so one could see the very edges of their character's LOS, which you couldn't before and could be frustrating. We'll add that as a shift-click or something instead. Next deathmatch build we'll lock them to that grid again, and we can get that predictability on movement. You won't quite as easily be able to WASD if we do that on a 6 direction, which the maps are more orientated for, but we could do a top QWE buttom ASD or something.

 

[Whalenought_Joe]

Hope you lot are staying safe and sound

 

[Ninjerk]

Hope you lot are staying safe and sound

Are you and Hannah selling drugs now or what?

 

[Whalenought_Joe]

Hope you lot are staying safe and sound

Are you and Hannah selling drugs now or what?

Not yet. We moved back to Chicago in time for the snow though, we're getting like 8 inches tonight. Midwest be cold

 

[Abu Antar]

We know the vision of the original pitch has changed. Would you be willing to share a bit of info on that. Can we forget about the vertical exploration? What are other big changes that have been made?

I've played the beta, so I have a hunch, but I'd like to hear from the horses mouth.

I hope everything is going well with you and the game.

 

[Whalenought_Joe]

We know the vision of the original pitch has changed. Would you be willing to share a bit of info on that. Can we forget about the vertical exploration? What are other big changes that have been made?

I've played the beta, so I have a hunch, but I'd like to hear from the horses mouth.

I hope everything is going well with you and the game.

Thanks! Yeah sure — the core features of the pitch were a simulation-focused rpg with sensory mechanics for espionage/stealth, wounds, and an open world city to explore, and that's been unchanged. We've focused on trying to improve those systems and their readability, as most of those didn't work well together from the original concept. It was, unsurprisingly, [a lot] to seamlessly fit together to play well. Structurally still lots of atmospheric exploration while getting to goals, and systemic street/gang dangers you meet en-route based on factions. I don't think the giant seamless map was in the pitch, and with that came a bigger need for driving around and vehicle combat, so that's been a bigger change.

The original pitch’s Grandia-esque combat was unnecessarily abstract and comparatively sluggish for the surrounding simulation, but we changed to the tick/tile gameplay a while ago. It’s been narrowed down to sort of a classic turn based gameplay experience, stone soup or what have you, but with simultaneous actions for all NPCs. As mentioned above — Hannah actually just finished locking characters to the grid again, we'll put that in the next build.

Vertical navigation does still happen with the 3D maps, the static camera angle and full LOS has it a little more focused to be easier to navigate without cam managing. Still used to sneak through passages and stairwells, as well as street ramps and trenches — I think we had some in early deathmatch maps. Companions obviously needed to change with the PC focused step-by-step turns, but are more varied (currently set to max at 20), can be fit into 4 squad types and commanded quickly in a sort of brother’s in arms directive. Companions can be recruited in various ways (rolling to social citizens to tag along, hiring mercs), but consistent pools you can grind through come from any factions you choose to align with.

The original story and setting have actually been largely unchanged, just edited to how quickly we get you to the campaign setup and some timeline, sci-fi details. We keep the PC a fairly blank slate with char creation, but get them to the objective on the box pretty quickly.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Zombra]

Oh good, weapon durability, I love having to buy ammo repair kits for my truncheon

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

You need item durability because otherwise you will have too much unauthorized fun!

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I hope this doesn't go the way of Sui Generis/Examina. While I am genuinely looking forward to Mechajammer, I've lost track of how many times I've forgotten about the project.

 

[ADL]

GOG release in the cards or no? 2016 post here indicated it was but GOG wishlist users say it isn't.

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Anyoke want my copy? I backed and hate this

 

[ADL]

Sure I'll take it why not. Looks cool.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Sure I'll take it why not. Looks cool.

Maybe this version's graphics looks cool to you, who knows what you'll think of the next week aesthetics.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Was expecting another bullet point:

* Did a graphics overhaul

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Sure I'll take it why not. Looks cool.

'
whenever they send 20$ backers the game, please message me and i will send you the code. I gave felipepepe my pathfinder code in a similar way. kickstarter games never not break my heart

 

[Kev Inkline]

Sure I'll take it why not. Looks cool.

'
whenever they send 20$ backers the game, please message me and i will send you the code. I gave felipepepe my pathfinder code in a similar way. kickstarter games never not break my heart

Well, Star Citizen is yet to come, there's still hope!

Maybe buy some starship to cheer you up?

 

[PEACH]

whenever they send 20$ backers the game

any day now

 

[buffalo bill]

Newest beta build is a large improvement over the previous one. The new sprites look way better (they were starting to look cartoonish and JRPG-y in the last build, imo), combat feels smooth again and natural. The UI is getting quite elegant. Unfortunately, they have now completely removed keyboard input for character movement, and though I am a big fan of keyboard controls, the mouse-based movement control is not so bad in the current build. I think maybe because they made the map tiles bigger or something? Anyway, it feels OK to use mouse for movement input at present. I was pretty upset that the previous build or two seemed like a step backward in basically every way from the earlier builds I had been playing, but they seem more-or-less on track again. Now, as before, hopefully they can build an actual game around the mechanics and ui and graphics they've created. At least it is mechanically more sound than SitS was.

My biggest complaint is that the combat is too easy (I can blast away with nary a thought to cover or strategy and seem to do better than the AI npcs), but I assume that will change in future builds.

My highest hope for this game is that it ends up a combination of the Genesis Shadowrun (in terms of setting and atmosphere) and Doomrl (in terms of combat mechanics).

 

[PEACH]

Now, as before, hopefully they can build an actual game around the mechanics and ui and graphics they've created.

That's the major red flag for the game so far, isn't it? I can live with the endless art changes and mechanical reworks but I've been following the game for years and still don't really understand what the macro level game is.

We've had a ton of twitter clips, exhaustive descriptions of ancillary systems/mechanics, and an iterative combat beta but how do these elements coalesce, what is the greater structure and how far along is the game when it comes to the actual content? It's one thing to make a compelling ruleset and aesthetic, it's another thing entirely to make the game that houses them.

 

[buffalo bill]

Now, as before, hopefully they can build an actual game around the mechanics and ui and graphics they've created.

That's the major red flag for the game so far, isn't it? I can live with the endless art changes and mechanical reworks but I've been following the game for years and still don't really understand what the macro level game is.

We've had a ton of twitter clips, exhaustive descriptions of ancillary systems/mechanics, and an iterative combat beta but how do these elements coalesce, what is the greater structure and how far along is the game when it comes to the actual content? It's one thing to make a compelling ruleset and aesthetic, it's another thing entirely to make the game that houses them.

Yeah, good points. I guess I'm of the mindset that a mechanically good game can be sort of crap in other areas and still be fun to play (they'll have to increase the difficulty for that, though). Like, I'd take a good dungeon crawler any day—even in a crap setting with bad dialogue, no C&C, etc.—over a narratively good game with terrible gameplay (cough Disco Elysium cough). But also I love traditional roguelikes, so this might be an outlier opinion.

I should say that I do have some confidence at least in their ability to create a decent setting with good atmosphere, since that was good in Sits (though a far too empty world, admittedly).

 

[grimace]

I have played every iteration since the first Alpha. I have an understanding of the progress of the game mechanics becoming a cohesive game.

At this point I can understand Kickstarter backers confusion. I just ran around the new map. It's an incremental improvement with every release.


When you are able to test drive the game you can feel the dedication to getting it right.

Let's gather our questions for Whalenought_Joe and demand an interview. There's so much to talk about.

 

[buffalo bill]

The website got an upgrade

https://whalenoughtstudios.com/community/games/

Also, Joe answered some comments of mine

Hey @Chris1299, thanks for the feedback! Concerning the operation for aimed shot, we’re going to make some changes this week to improve that. Here’s a bit our thought process thus far:

Aimed shot was designed for two purposes: quickly toggling an aimed shot (aiming shots wound body parts, and knock down, specifically), and increasing the aim modifier roll the more turns it is held through. These could be separated but made sense in a simulation-y way to house under the same action, as in you’d aim to try to wound a body part of someone (slow them down, reduce aim, etc), instead of just general life reduction.

Previously, aimed shot was a predetermined amount of turns for a set modification, but we liked the idea of letting the player have choice with how long they’d like to prep a shot for, which has some strategical benefits like holding a minimum amount just to get an increase, or holding for a long time waiting to ambush someone.

Conceptually we wanted something built into the aim action already so once could do it easily and frequently, like the aim cursor from Deus Ex:

In the current build, turns move in slow motion while you are increasing your aiming modifier. The slow-mo was used as, ideally, a bridge between the step-by-step and a way of seamlessly ticking through turns to increase your modification. This could be changed to something that stops the turn completely, there would just need to some kind of interface for tapping through ticks while holding the right mouse button down. Instead of holding the right mouse button on a dead-hand aim you could do a one-time right-hold on a target destination for a second (so the ground, an object or NPC) and can be locked into an aim mode while the turn is stopped. From there 3 buttons could come available:

1.keep aiming (+ mod)

2.fire

3.cancel

Something like this?

You’d be locked onto your tile and to that target, or a following a moving target, but can more leisurely tap through those options or set them as hotkeys, or just right click to aim and tap keep aiming as necessary. It’s not quite as fast with input as the slow-mo but it might be more easily usable. The red-target line could have some visual loudness to let you know you’re in a new state. Without having played it, I can at least see the improvement on usability, and like the idea of locking that a target location to aim to, evoking the real application of aiming like a sniper taking time to focus on a doorway or carefully following a target that is closing in.

We’ll put that in this week, though let us know if you think of other options and we can try some other things!