Metroid Appreciation Thread

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

Like Goldeneye before it, Metroid Prime 1 was pretty good for its time (only one I liked so far). I feel the Prime sequels came out well past their time. Other M looked interesting enough but trying to make the whole thing control with a single wagglemote out of sheer ego/hubris from its designer made it impossible to enjoy.

I would've been curious to see Other M remastered with normal controls. This new Dread game feels extremely fluid, but looks a bit monotone.

 

[JDR13]

I'd much rather see the Prime games remastered than something like Other M which wasn't very good even when it was new.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I got AM2R for android on a short list of games installed on my phone in case I'm lost in a vast, dark forest and/or desert for days someday. You can supposedly play it with touch screen controls fairly easily but not optimally. I have very fond memories of Super Metroid for my original SNES hardware; all those cool bosses, maps, hidden goodies and the lisping, effeminate digitized voice of the programmer saying, "The last Metroid is in captivity... The Galaxy is at peace" at the end sounding clear as a bell on my ancient 16-bit machine. Maybe I'll recapture some of that fun with this.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I largely agree that the meta-plot has become unnecessarily recursive and self-referential, to the point of near parody. To be fair though, Prime is the game that largely started that, and it’s one of the best games in the series, so I can’t blame devs for trying to emulate it.

I also will say to Dread’s credit and my surprise the devs were relatively self-disciplined in that

Spoiler

Ridley is not in the game.

 

[J1M]

I largely agree that the meta-plot has become unnecessarily recursive and self-referential, to the point of near parody. To be fair though, Prime is the game that largely started that, and it’s one of the best games in the series, so I can’t blame devs for trying to emulate it.

I also will say to Dread’s credit and my surprise the devs were relatively self-disciplined in that

Spoiler

Ridley is not in the game.

DLC Incoming.

 

[Ash]

Like Goldeneye before it, Metroid Prime 1 was pretty good for its time (only one I liked so far).

One of the biggest misconceptions among gamers that aren't really gamers; Goldeneye played like shit compared to other N64 shooters, let alone PC shooters.
Turok 1 & 2 were N64 games. T1 released very early on in the console's lifespan, before Goldeneye. Solid game. Doom 64. Duke Nukem: Zero Hour. Among various PC ports. These played exceptionally well (as well as early console shooters could), solid control function that followed the universal standard that is still almost identical and universal today, and had great general game design.
Goldeneye had: forced lookspring, you aimed with the goddamn C buttons by default, and apparently the devs thought holding down a button to actually precision aim and have a crosshair was necessary.
Goldeneye was behind the times when it goddamn released. Same goes for Halo and Metroid Prime - the other two massively overrated decline shooters by gamers that live in a tiny gaming bubble yet like to talk shit about other shooters they never even played or were too challenging for them.

Apologies, I just see this shit all the time...is a little triggering. Very common to see even more exaggerated and unbelievably ignorant claims than this -- Yes, Goldeneye, Halo and Metroid Prime, bestest shooters by which no other shooters at the time compared. You nintendo clowns are joking, right? Too bad Goldeneye came with the N64 bundle pack, it resulted in its mass exposure and here we are. It's not a bad game, but it is one of the lesser N64 shooters easily.

No such thing as "good for the time". It's good or not so good. Period. Good games don't suddenly change with time, your expectations and standards as a player does. Those have probably risen in regards to controls and graphics, I wouldn't bet on gameplay though.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

One of the biggest misconceptions among gamers that aren't really gamers; Goldeneye played like shit compared to other N64 shooters, let alone PC shooters.
Turok 1 & 2 were N64 games. T1 released very early on in the console's lifespan, before Goldeneye. Solid game. Doom 64. Duke Nukem: Zero Hour. Among various PC ports. These played exceptionally well (as well as early console shooters could), solid control function that followed the universal standard that is still almost identical and universal today, and had great general game design.
Goldeneye had: forced lookspring, you aimed with the goddamn C buttons by default, and apparently the devs thought holding down a button to actually precision aim and have a crosshair was necessary.

Interesting; I never played Goldeneye, but have played Turok.

I'm actually playing Metroid Prime 2: Echoes right now, and the game can be annoying in places. It's not as timeless as the 2D entries, which I re-played a few weeks back. The Wii controls also seem to not lock onto things easily sometimes. That can put a control issue between you and the game. I wouldn't classify the Metroid Prime games as shooters, they are more akin to Zelda games that control in first person. Shooting isn't really their purpose, so much as exploration.

Scanning lore entries is really nice, and it makes me think how good a Star Trek themed Metroid Prime type game would be, where you can scan everything in your environment with a Tricorder, and then read the lore in a codex. Hold L1 or something, and recieve a Lore entry on the Klingon tar'chop in the sewer, or a description of how a Romulan turret was reverse engineered from a 23rd century Starfleet model. That was one of the best things about Star Trek: Judgement Rites.

 

[Ash]

Interesting; I never played Goldeneye, but have played Turok.
.

You are an absolute rarity. Try it I dare you. The game design is at least ok, I beat it back in the day, but it controls so goddamn terribly and is needlessly convoluted in that regard. For no goddamn reason when no other shooter on the platform has the same problem (aside from its sequel, Perfect Dark).

Doom 64, Turok 1 and Turok 2 got ports to PC with very minimalist changes, they play well and meet the baseline standards of the 90s golden era FPS just fine. Goldeneye would need a complete control overhaul to start with. Once that's out the way the game design should be next in line to be judged, which as I said is acceptable, decent even, but doesn't match the 90s greats at all. The graphics are also pretty fucking bad (again even compared to other N64 shooters of the time) but that should barely matter to people that aren't lame fucks. No early 3D game looked outstanding.

Too bad no Zero Hour port, second best Duke Nukem game after 3D, and probably the best game on that largely mediocre console.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

To clarify, I never played Turok on N64, but played the Turok PC port on Steam recently, which I liked, although perhaps not as much as things like Doom, Heretic, or Quake, which have that great 90s heavy metal or occult fantasy atmosphere, with parallel demon world dimensions and stuff. The time travel, dinosaurs and aliens idea is great, but the actual levels and models didn't always capture the coolness of the idea I felt. I enjoyed it, but got a bit repetitive with finding key pieces, so I'm not sure I'll bother with Turok 2, at least for a while. I didn't think the setting or environment was quite as interesting as other 'boomer shooters', whereas I could gladly spend more time with Doom, Heretic or Quake's imaginative world building. I bet Goldeneye has some really awkward controls just from knowing the N64 pad, which didn't have twin sticks. The whole lookspring thing sounds terrible. I bet it is remembered more for being a popular moment in console history, or having a certain atmosphere, than it's gameplay. It was probably one of the first that tried to go for that military/Cold War/spy thing, ending up with Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, so perhaps not a positive trend. I'm more interested in the high concept stuff like this, in hindsight:

In general I think boomer shooters often make for stronger fantasy games than many full-fledged RPGs, since they don't over-burden people with misdirected world-building attempts, which RPG developers rarely get right, but stick to compelling concepts like Hell invading Mars, or Shub Niggurath's dimension being full of gothic castles. Stuff like Heretic, Amid Evil, and Arthurian Legends capture the feel of being inside a fantasy better than many supposed high fantasy games. I might make a thread at some point arguing for that.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Stuff like Heretic, Amid Evil, and Arthurian Legends capture the feel of being inside a fantasy better than many supposed high fantasy games. I might make a thread at some point arguing for that.

Please do. It's an interesting topic and something I agree with.

 

[Ash]

To clarify, I never played Turok on N64, but played the Turok PC port on Steam recently, which I liked, although perhaps not as much as things like Doom, Heretic, or Quake, which have that great 90s heavy metal or occult fantasy atmosphere, with parallel demon world dimensions and stuff.

The problem with Turok is its level design is simultaneously among the most hardcore level design in classic FPS, yet also often pretty boring and plain. It's like Hexen in that regard. Big complex levels, difficult to navigate at times, and lacking consistently engaging content within (by comparison to the greats) which is the main issue.

Doom 64 and Nukem Zero Hour on the other hand have no such downside. Solid design across the board.

Nonetheless T1 & T2 are still good games and I vastly prefer them over Hexen 1 & 2. Not sure where I'd place Heretic as I like it quite a bit but it is very derivative of Doom. Feels almost like a mod. Not that there's anything wrong with that, the design is solid, it just feels wrong putting it over Turok given how creative it is by comparison (especially Turok 2).

 

[JDR13]

I wouldn't classify the Metroid Prime games as shooters, they are more akin to Zelda games that control in first person. Shooting isn't really their purpose, so much as exploration.

This. Anyone claiming Metroid Prime was decline is probably comparing it to the wrong games. They're more action-adventure games than shooters, and good ones at that.

 

[Ash]

Stuff like Heretic, Amid Evil, and Arthurian Legends capture the feel of being inside a fantasy better than many supposed high fantasy games. I might make a thread at some point arguing for that.

Please do. It's an interesting topic and something I agree with.

I don't relate. They're just fantasy/sci-fi murder simulators/gameplay faggotry for me. Sure there's some nice theme-based atmosphere, but it isn't deep. RPGs typically have way more simulation aspects, emotion, involving the player on a personal level, interactivity and immersion than something like Doom, Heretic or Hexen. I don't get it, very strange claim. Maybe you're just playing shit RPGs?

I bet it is remembered more for being a popular moment in console history, or having a certain atmosphere, than it's gameplay.

It is remembered for yes, being popular since it was a common bundle deal when you bought an N64.
But, it is remembered in part for its gameplay too, its couch multiplayer, which is something that the other N64 shooters did not really do.
The singleplayer too: it was far from bad, with multiple objectives based on difficulty mode chosen (did it before Thief), varied gameplay, events, and level design based on the movie, and even some semi-impressive vehicle segments (e.g control a tank). Stealth was sometimes involved, as well as spy gadgets since it is 007 after all. But ultimately it was a realism-based FPS, meaning hitscan combat, largely human enemies only, and no abstract gameplay-oriented level design that made 90s FPS king. Nonetheless the game design is fucking masterclass compared to many modern shooters we have today, but mediocre compared to the so-called "boomer shooter" of the glorious 90s. Could have been better despite the realism faggotry if it weren't for the shit controls, a couple annoying or lazy levels, and a bit more effort gauged at general gameplay depth (e.g more enemy types).

It isn't a "classic" and never was, probably one of the worst FPS on the platform, but even "the worst FPS on the platform" could back then beat most today. Because FPS really devolved into mindless trash as we all know.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

Stuff like Heretic, Amid Evil, and Arthurian Legends capture the feel of being inside a fantasy better than many supposed high fantasy games. I might make a thread at some point arguing for that.

That's a sexy-looking game! I never understood why more games like these are not made! I don't understand why indies don't make Morrowind that looks like Heretic & Daggerfall.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

I think it's psychological, to do with Jungian ideas. Not all fantasy RPGs actually pitch the emotional substance of fantasy right. Like when you first read a powerful fantasy like Tolkien as a child, it effects you, very deeply. It has a lot of hidden metaphysical concepts, that run deep. The Jungian concept that there is an 'ocean' of 'chaos' beneath reality, or the 'land', for example, means that descending underground, into flooded ruins (as in Dark Souls, where things get more surreal and mythical, with massive tree roots), sort of carries a psychological impact too.

Anyway, I created the thread, if anyone is interested: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...s-make-better-fantasy-games-than-rpgs.140670/

 

[Grauken]

I largely agree that the meta-plot has become unnecessarily recursive and self-referential, to the point of near parody. To be fair though, Prime is the game that largely started that, and it’s one of the best games in the series, so I can’t blame devs for trying to emulate it.

I also will say to Dread’s credit and my surprise the devs were relatively self-disciplined in that

Spoiler

Ridley is not in the game.

Spoiler

Kraid is though, not sure that's better

 

[Jacob]

I might buy metroid dreeaaad

 

[Greek Anime God]

Other M doesn't deserve half the bad rep it has gotten.

 

[Bohrain]

I just recently replayed the Prime trilogy on Dolphin. The first is the best overall I think; the world feels organic, there aren't really any mechanics that drive you to the wall and it has melancholy tone of saving a planet where all the denizens are already dead. Never been a fan of echoes, the dark world gimmick makes you feel like you are constantly backtracking and the Ign designs are really ugly. You also spent too much time underwater and to this day there are no underwater sections in a video game that I don't hate. 3 has it's issues with linearity and just being short, but I really loved the controls on the Wii. And it's neat to see some non-hostile characters around.
And I have to say that the scan logs in Prime 1 and 2 are the gold standard of that kind of optional storytelling. Especially the pirate logs. They are the perfect blend of megacorporation, crime syndicate and comical antics.

 

[J1M]

Interesting; I never played Goldeneye, but have played Turok.
.

You are an absolute rarity. Try it I dare you. The game design is at least ok, I beat it back in the day, but it controls so goddamn terribly and is needlessly convoluted in that regard. For no goddamn reason when no other shooter on the platform has the same problem (aside from its sequel, Perfect Dark).

Doom 64, Turok 1 and Turok 2 got ports to PC with very minimalist changes, they play well and meet the baseline standards of the 90s golden era FPS just fine. Goldeneye would need a complete control overhaul to start with. Once that's out the way the game design should be next in line to be judged, which as I said is acceptable, decent even, but doesn't match the 90s greats at all. The graphics are also pretty fucking bad (again even compared to other N64 shooters of the time) but that should barely matter to people that aren't lame fucks. No early 3D game looked outstanding.

Too bad no Zero Hour port, second best Duke Nukem game after 3D, and probably the best game on that largely mediocre console.

For what it's worth, I don't know anyone who used the default control scheme for Goldeneye.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

Like Goldeneye before it, Metroid Prime 1 was pretty good for its time (only one I liked so far).

One of the biggest misconceptions among gamers that aren't really gamers; Goldeneye played like shit compared to other N64 shooters, let alone PC shooters.
Turok 1 & 2 were N64 games. T1 released very early on in the console's lifespan, before Goldeneye. Solid game. Doom 64. Duke Nukem: Zero Hour. Among various PC ports. These played exceptionally well (as well as early console shooters could), solid control function that followed the universal standard that is still almost identical and universal today, and had great general game design.
Goldeneye had: forced lookspring, you aimed with the goddamn C buttons by default, and apparently the devs thought holding down a button to actually precision aim and have a crosshair was necessary.
Goldeneye was behind the times when it goddamn released. Same goes for Halo and Metroid Prime - the other two massively overrated decline shooters by gamers that live in a tiny gaming bubble yet like to talk shit about other shooters they never even played or were too challenging for them.

Apologies, I just see this shit all the time...is a little triggering. Very common to see even more exaggerated and unbelievably ignorant claims than this -- Yes, Goldeneye, Halo and Metroid Prime, bestest shooters by which no other shooters at the time compared. You nintendo clowns are joking, right? Too bad Goldeneye came with the N64 bundle pack, it resulted in its mass exposure and here we are. It's not a bad game, but it is one of the lesser N64 shooters easily.

No such thing as "good for the time". It's good or not so good. Period. Good games don't suddenly change with time, your expectations and standards as a player does. Those have probably risen in regards to controls and graphics, I wouldn't bet on gameplay though.

Strangely enough I managed to enjoy Goldeneye & its novelty just fine at the time despite previously enjoying Quake, Duke3D and Doom2 on my multimedia PC, as many did. Also never really thought of comparing a movie stealth shooter like Goldeneye or an action/adventure/platformer like Metroid Prime to the likes of Quake, let alone buying console ports of pc games, even less so to then engage in gamefaqs discussions with 12 year olds over which is the bestest shooter, much less still feel triggered by them more than 20 years later & needing to go way offbase and offtopic to try to rekindle them.

Some possible additions to your forum signature:
"Gamer who is really a gamer"
"Real gamers play every shooter on the nintendo 64"

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

If you're playing any of the Prime games and expecting a shooter then you are playing the wrong game. Corruption has the best shooter elements and is easily the worst of the trilogy.

 

[mediocrepoet]

If you're playing any of the Prime games and expecting a shooter then you are playing the wrong game. Corruption has the best shooter elements and is easily the worst of the trilogy.

This is probably a super ignorant question, but that's what I thought those were and that the side scrolling games were action platformers. Is that not right? I basically played a bit of the original Metroid and was kind of looking at Dread.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

If you're playing any of the Prime games and expecting a shooter then you are playing the wrong game. Corruption has the best shooter elements and is easily the worst of the trilogy.

This is probably a super ignorant question, but that's what I thought those were and that the side scrolling games were action platformers. Is that not right? I basically played a bit of the original Metroid and was kind of looking at Dread.

I would classify the Prime games (at least the first two, the third is kind of crap) as First Person games with a primary emphasis on environmental exploration and puzzles and a secondary emphasis on combat. It’s hard to explain very well though, there aren’t really any other games out there that I know of that are completely similar.
I highly recommend anyone who likes Metroidvanias to at least play Prime 1 though; it’s the most successfully the genre has ever been translated into 3D environments.

 

[Ash]

Strangely enough I managed to enjoy Goldeneye & its novelty just fine at the time despite previously enjoying Quake, Duke3D and Doom2 on my multimedia PC

Strange indeed that you raise your gamer cred and your multimedia PC, as that makes your low standards in enjoying Goldeneye without issue all the more apparent.

Also never really thought of comparing a movie stealth shooter like Goldeneye or an FPS/adventure/platformer like Metroid Prime to the likes of Quake

So you're handicapped and have the inability to measure the quality of design and overall experience of games that are merely in different subgenres? Gotcha

even less so to then engage in gamefaqs discussions with 12 year olds over which is the bestest shooter,

Who didn't use gamefaqs back in the day? Cool little website "for the time". Urgh. Dumb. I never did engage in discussions though, but I did read reviews. Still do sometimes, reviews for old games specifically, to capture the opinion of the time. Certainly can't trust reviewers today.

much less still feel triggered by them more than 20 years later & needing to go way offbase and offtopic to try to rekindle them.

Oh, you're not one of those that think Goldeneye and Halo are the best FPS of all time and Ocarina of Time is the all time of bestest RPG? Then maybe you're not as dumb as that would imply.

Some possible additions to your forum signature:
"Gamer who is really a gamer"
"Real gamers play every shooter on the nintendo 64"

Yes!

Real gamers certainly do play lots of games on multiple platforms. Back then anyway. If you only had your nintendo or your whatever back then there's a whole other number of wonderful worlds of gaming you'd be entirely ignorant of. Today that is all irrelevant, as there is emulators for those old games, and new consoles have next to no value. There is only the PC.

more than 20 years later

Old games are largely all that is worth discussing, so yes.