Company News Paradox has acquired White Wolf and the World of Darkness IP, including Vampire: The Masquerade

[Ninjerk]

Encyclopedic NPCs are anti-Sawyer, that's all on Fenstermaker.

I'm sure web developer-turned lead game designer, FO: PoS apologist Josh "I will right all the RPG wrongs" Sawyer is all about dramatic convention. Everything about him screams dry textbook.

 

[Roguey]

I'm sure web developer-turned lead game designer, FO: PoS apologist Josh "I will right all the RPG wrongs" Sawyer is all about dramatic convention. Everything about him screams dry textbook.

You know you're talking to a Josh Sawyer Encyclopedia right

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...wyer-writing-checks-obsidian-cant-cash.99149/

Putting mundane exposition into dialogue is, IMO, often a huge waste of the designers' and players' time. If conversation is not furthering player or NPC characterization and conflict, I think it's being ill-used. If straight exposition needs to be part of a "proper" conversation, I think it should be split off from whatever the main conflict of the character(s) is. But really, in that case, you've essentially just turned an NPC into an encyclopedia (especially if it's literally something like asking an unnamed character how to get to a location).

When it comes to literature in the world, I think a case can be made for some straight exposition (e.g. a history book), but when it comes to dialogue, I don't think writers do themselves any favors by using characters as encyclopedias. Critics usually slam writers who use character dialogue for straight exposition in any other medium; why should game dialogue be any different?

As an example, Prometheus was one of the most disappointing films I've seen in the past few years for this reason (among others). Characters like Ford (bowl cut Scottish lady) spend their time dryly stating facts. At the end of the film, the most memorable aspect of her character is that she has a bowl cut. That's not a good use of the character's time nor the viewer's, which means that it's not a good use of the writers' or director's time, IMO.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/38946-chris-avellone-interview-rpgdot/page-4#entry512628

I can't really write eloquent, fancy prose. It always comes off as false to me. It's probably pretty telling that some of my favorite game dialogue can be found in the Splinter Cell games. Sam Fisher, Grimsdottir, and Lambert sound like people with whom you could actually have a real conversation. Their conversations are pretty dry and grounded. They clearly have personality, but it's pretty subdued, overall.

 

[Outlander]

Didn't Paradox publish PoE?

There you go.

 

[Bigg Boss]

If NPC's spoke more like real people there would be a ton of small talk about random shit no one cares about:

"Oh your grandma died did she? Funeral on Wednesday? My condolences. I'll try to make it. How is the weather going to be? If you need something I'll be here for you."

Splinter Cell has some of the driest shitty dialog. At least the last one did. Sure it is subdued but it also lacks any character. It's the nature of the medium I guess. Characters have to convey specific information that many people might not speak about normally. Certain games are more linear which makes dialog easier, so I'm not sure why he mentioned it specifically. Actually as much as I like Sawyer I don't agree with a lot that he says in regards to game design.

 

[Jaesun]

Didn't Paradox publish PoE?

There you go.

No, they only distributed PoE. They did not fund/publish it.

 

[Sensuki]

Actually they did publish it. They don't own the IP though.

 

[Ninjerk]

You know you're talking to a Josh Sawyer Encyclopedia right

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...wyer-writing-checks-obsidian-cant-cash.99149/





http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/38946-chris-avellone-interview-rpgdot/page-4#entry512628

Thanks?

EDIT: Have you played the fucking game yet?

 

[Fairfax]

Actually they did publish it. They don't own the IP though.

Yes, and so far they've done a fantastic job with it. Pre-order bonuses, terrible (and misleading) trailers, shitty-ass quality physical goods and the decision to split the "old-school style expansion" in two pieces of DLC.

 

[DeepOcean]

If NPC's spoke more like real people there would be a ton of small talk about random shit no one cares about:

"Oh your grandma died did she? Funeral on Wednesday? My condolences. I'll try to make it. How is the weather going to be? If you need something I'll be here for you."

Splinter Cell has some of the driest shitty dialog. At least the last one did. Sure it is subdued but it also lacks any character. It's the nature of the medium I guess. Characters have to convey specific information that many people might not speak about normally. Certain games are more linear which makes dialog easier, so I'm not sure why he mentioned it specifically. Actually as much as I like Sawyer I don't agree with a lot that he says in regards to game design.

More "real" dialog doesn't automatically means simulating exactly how people talk on real life. The Witcher 3 has a overall shit plot but there are many instances of dialog that flow naturaly and express emotion without boring shit talk. One example of the way real people talk that is really missing from PoE are emotions and I find really amusing that the only two characters that carry emotions were written by Avellone maybe with exception of Eder and that is more credit of his voice actor than the text.

On Guilded Vale for example, there are ominous three bell tolls and a huge tree with hanged people, that was a a pretty good indicator that shit was happening in there. The forced tourist guide at the entrance was annoying and made replays inconvenient by forcing you to skip dialog after dialog after dialog of needless explanation, not happy, they took the control of the camera to show how people were scared, a much better solution was for you going to the tavern for any reason and on the way you hear the bell tolls and once you get there, the inn keeper was obviously scared and didn't want to talk about it and everyone you talked got unconfortable and refused to talk raising a question on your head.

There you are, how to make Guilded Valley less boring and less info dumpy. You could discover the lord in there gone crazy one thousand ways and Obsidian just chosen the most boring one.They fucking pretty much gave all the major plot of Guilded Valley right at the start and forced you to waste time on every single replay, call me naive but I don't think even mentally challenged people would miss the fact that a tree full of hanged people is a bad sign. I mean, I think Obsidian gone way, way, way too much on their patronizing of the player on PoE and destroying any mystery on the setting with their info dumps in the process.

 

[you know what time it is]

Anyone but inXile and shadowrun folks, pls.

 

[Aenra]

But that's wrong, I don't know why people keep praising it, the writing in VTMB is p. banal. Everything that's good about is just because of the setting and it's evident by the fact it has so many memorable characters even though they are just really shallow stereotypes of the groups they represent in the world. The top tier voice acting of course also adds to it.

That's exactly what i was saying, that the IP does -not- make the game. You just woke up or something?

I could see it as (potentially) attracting a factor due to its one redeemable quality, it being recognition. People will have an interest and/or positive pre-conceptions. Mass audience. But this day and age, that entails a type of """rpg""" with akshun and flashy nuvidya hairworks, along with the budget that preceeds it. So again, while a plus, it's not one beneficial to us.

Which leaves us, as i was saying, with the negatives. Forced lore, restrictions, constraints; And most of all, significantly lower capital remaining for wages, ie development time. Zero point. Those few companies/studios left making actual RPGs, they need not a White Wolf IP to lure me, i'll buy anyway. Save the money, put it where your game is. Not on its cover.

 

[Ninjerk]

More "real" dialog doesn't automatically means simulating exactly how people talk on real life. The Witcher 3 has a overall shit plot but there are many instances of dialog that flow naturaly and express emotion without boring shit talk. One example of the way real people talk that is really missing from PoE are emotions and I find really amusing that the only two characters that carry emotions were written by Avellone maybe with exception of Eder and that is more credit of his voice actor than the text.

On Guilded Vale for example, there are ominous three bell tolls and a huge tree with hanged people, that was a a pretty good indicator that shit was happening in there. The forced tourist guide at the entrance was annoying and made replays inconvenient by forcing you to skip dialog after dialog after dialog of needless explanation, not happy, they took the control of the camera to show how people were scared, a much better solution was for you going to the tavern for any reason and on the way you hear the bell tolls and once you get there, the inn keeper was obviously scared and didn't want to talk about it and everyone you talked got unconfortable and refused to talk raising a question on your head.

There you are, how to make Guilded Valley less boring and less info dumpy. You could discover the lord in there gone crazy one thousand ways and Obsidian just chosen the most boring one.They fucking pretty much gave all the major plot of Guilded Valley right at the start and forced you to waste time on every single replay, call me naive but I don't think even mentally challenged people would miss the fact that a tree full of hanged people is a bad sign. I mean, I think Obsidian gone way, way, way too much on their patronizing of the player on PoE and destroying any mystery on the setting with their info dumps in the process.

 

[Fairfax]

More "real" dialog doesn't automatically means simulating exactly how people talk on real life. The Witcher 3 has a overall shit plot but there are many instances of dialog that flow naturaly and express emotion without boring shit talk. One example of the way real people talk that is really missing from PoE are emotions and I find really amusing that the only two characters that carry emotions were written by Avellone maybe with exception of Eder and that is more credit of his voice actor than the text.

On Guilded Vale for example, there are ominous three bell tolls and a huge tree with hanged people, that was a a pretty good indicator that shit was happening in there. The forced tourist guide at the entrance was annoying and made replays inconvenient by forcing you to skip dialog after dialog after dialog of needless explanation, not happy, they took the control of the camera to show how people were scared, a much better solution was for you going to the tavern for any reason and on the way you hear the bell tolls and once you get there, the inn keeper was obviously scared and didn't want to talk about it and everyone you talked got unconfortable and refused to talk raising a question on your head.

There you are, how to make Guilded Valley less boring and less info dumpy. You could discover the lord in there gone crazy one thousand ways and Obsidian just chosen the most boring one.They fucking pretty much gave all the major plot of Guilded Valley right at the start and forced you to waste time on every single replay, call me naive but I don't think even mentally challenged people would miss the fact that a tree full of hanged people is a bad sign. I mean, I think Obsidian gone way, way, way too much on their patronizing of the player on PoE and destroying any mystery on the setting with their info dumps in the process.

 

[DawnrazorDCLXVI]

If Otherside does a worthy LGS-style Underworld, I could see them tackling a project like this (not excluding Obsidian, guys.)

 

[ArchAngel]

If NPC's spoke more like real people there would be a ton of small talk about random shit no one cares about:

"Oh your grandma died did she? Funeral on Wednesday? My condolences. I'll try to make it. How is the weather going to be? If you need something I'll be here for you."

Tarantino fans do

 

[SCO]

I didn't bother reading the rest of the topic before posting, but are you people serious about wanting 'Bloodlines 2'? Heck even the setting itself has a major consistency problem unless you're willing to set the game(s) all before 2004 or so because WoD ends around that, and by 'ends' i mean everyone gets eaten because White Wolf got pissy about continuing the setting since it had a inbuilt game end prophecy.


I mean, i see no problem with having basically a whole series of games around 2004 that are just the world ending over and over again but the mainstream audience probably isn't quite ready to discard their contemporary references for pseudo 90's grimdark.

 

[Western]

Doesn't need to be 90's or 2000's, you could set a WOD game in the time of Rome and Carthage, that time period has a lot of potential.

 

[Fargus]

you could set a WOD game in the time of Rome and Carthage, that time period has a lot of potential.

Vampire: The Age of Decadence

 

[The Great Deceiver]

The Secret World's Funcom could pull this one off I think. That game had really nice writing and atmosphere (with strong horror overtones). Investigation missions had some very interesting and creative puzzles, something I think would fit Masquerade pretty well.

I'd go with something like this: You start the game as a police detective, completely oblivious of the World of Darkness. Your first cases are rather mundane, with maybe a subtle hint here or there that something isn't quite right. After a certain point you come across something that can be considered supernatural. Obviously your bosses don't believe you, but you've also attracted attention from Camarilla enforcers, who wish to preserve the Masquerade.

Depending on the choices you've made in the first act you're either embraced or become a Hunter, at which point the main story begins.

The game would would have a strong emphasis on investigation, puzzles and "dialogue combat" (think Deus Ex: Human Revolution). Strong horror themes. Lots of 90's/early 00's music. A small number of combat encounters.

 

[Roguey]

Have you played the fucking game yet?

Not until the final patch.

 

[Ninjerk]

Not until the final patch.

then stfu

 

[Roguey]

then stfu

No. I don't need to play it to discuss this matter.

 

[Ninjerk]

No. I don't need to play it to discuss this matter.

Stick to your secondary source circle jerk and leave me alone then

 

[mondblut]

inb4 another map colouring game but with vampire prince domains instead of European countries

I totally would.

 

[Xzylvador]

I want a Telltale Games version of Vampire.
The Wolf Among Us was an excellent game interactive fairytale for storyfags and did very well on the whole atmosphere part of the game, which imo is what made V:TMB shine most.
They would have to add more game to it, though.

CDPR wouldn't be bad, but they should focus on Cyberpunk 2077 and make it very awesome.