DROP TO YOUR KNEES IN PRAISE BELIEVERS! THE DIVINE IS HERE WITH HIS RF JUDGMENT! HIS WORDS SHALL BE GOSPEL!
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Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline
- Thread starter Kane
- Start date
I can see your point but I still think it's an objective fact that it is very overwhelming for new players to deal with all these mechanics. Not to mention, I'm someone that doesn't like super bloated experiences. Baldur's Gate II is an example of this, where you are bombarded with quests that are shoved down your throat, and within a few hours your entire quest log is full of shit you might not even want to do. When that happens it just makes me want to Alt-F4 and play something else. Now I understand not everyone is as ornery about such things as I am, but still.
What I would like to see is if they made it so instead of blocking mechanics on your Atlas Passive Tree, you have to unlock content. Maybe add a separate tree, whatever. I'm fine with the tutorials in the campaign but it'd be nice if they were restricted to showing up in maps, which is where most end game players who might argue they like the mechanics will be spending all their time in anyway. That way players could slowly unlock content as they master it to prevent themselves from getting overwhelmed, and people that know what they're doing can go out of their way to unlock the shit they want to do right away.
abija
Prophet
- Joined
- May 21, 2011
- Messages
- 3,058
Yo bitch, for someone begging for a guide some weeks ago you analyze this game a bit too much.
New players should just progress the game at their own pace, absorb it slowly and experiment with it. End game systems aren't shoved down your throat.
New players should just progress the game at their own pace, absorb it slowly and experiment with it. End game systems aren't shoved down your throat.
Jason Liang
Arcane
You're an actual retard. Yes I was asking for a guide some weeks ago because I am a new player. So when it comes to addressing the new player experience, I am far more qualified to "analyze the game" than you, a vertan player, are mongoloid. There is a reason why D4, a dogshit ARPG, has a player base that dwarfs PoE's despite it being the far superior game. Giving suggestions on how to improve the new player experience without impacting veteran players will only mean more money for the company which means better updates. Watch your fucking moth the next time you speak to me you fanboy faggot.
worst advice ever
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- Aug 5, 2009
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Seems the verdict is in and no one can find a good place for the jewel conversion. So chieftain is a 6 point ascendency for RF. RIP.
hmm, diving a bit more into it, there are a lot of diverging opinions on this ascendancy. Guess we’ll have to wait and see
abija
Prophet
- Joined
- May 21, 2011
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- 3,058
Reasons: huge fanbase, good marketing, AAA art and a solid demo. D2R sold great despite following W3R.
You aren't qualified to analyze shit. You didn't even fucking try to play the game as presented by the devs. They actually spent a lot of time improving onboarding and working to make the early game experience less overwhelming. They still have a lot to do but going after guides exposes you to a lot more information than the game itself throws at you.
Someone who tries one of the simplest subgenres in the industry and jumps into a guide is a bitch.
PoE “onboarding” has to be the worst of almost any good game in existence. Would 100% recommend any newbie do the exact opposite of what you suggest. I didn’t start having fun with PoE until I finally bit the guide bullet, because until then I was playing this slow ass crap game where nothing really worked
Keep exposing yourself. First of all, I was asking for a build guide. As far as I know, the vast majority of the playerbase used build guides because of the high barrier to entry for creating a build. Does that mean they're not playing the game as "presented by the devs". Lol? And what the fuck do you mean build guides expose you to more information? It's literally the barebones basics of how to progress in the game without running into a brick wall.
Are you referring to me asking for guides in regards to the new mechanics? Well as I said before, I played PoE right around when it first came out as a thirteen/fourteen year old kid, but my computer couldn't run the game so I never could stick with it. I've hopped into the game several times throughout the years and I was already generally familiar with all the basic mechanics. Are you really trying to tell me that a system like Syndicate is easy to understand only using the information provided in games? Without the reward matrix I have no clue how anyone would be able to figure out said system without spending hundreds of hours leveling all the mercenaries up to max level in each of the categories and jotting down what the rewards are. What the fuck are you blathering on about.
Grunker is an avid PoE player and he agrees with me, would love to hear your rebuttal.
And finally, putting aside the butthurt and fallacious assumptions, even if I am all the things you claim to be, I am still far more advanced and willing to learn than the average player, as the average person in general is a complete retard. If I am struggling, imagine how much the average gamer, I'm not even talking about casuals, will struggle. And I think it's obvious that these people are required for the game to succeed.
In summation, once again you've exposed your idiocy, kill yourself.
Are you referring to me asking for guides in regards to the new mechanics? Well as I said before, I played PoE right around when it first came out as a thirteen/fourteen year old kid, but my computer couldn't run the game so I never could stick with it. I've hopped into the game several times throughout the years and I was already generally familiar with all the basic mechanics. Are you really trying to tell me that a system like Syndicate is easy to understand only using the information provided in games? Without the reward matrix I have no clue how anyone would be able to figure out said system without spending hundreds of hours leveling all the mercenaries up to max level in each of the categories and jotting down what the rewards are. What the fuck are you blathering on about.
Grunker is an avid PoE player and he agrees with me, would love to hear your rebuttal.
And finally, putting aside the butthurt and fallacious assumptions, even if I am all the things you claim to be, I am still far more advanced and willing to learn than the average player, as the average person in general is a complete retard. If I am struggling, imagine how much the average gamer, I'm not even talking about casuals, will struggle. And I think it's obvious that these people are required for the game to succeed.
In summation, once again you've exposed your idiocy, kill yourself.
abija
Prophet
- Joined
- May 21, 2011
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- 3,058
People should be able to finish PoE campaign without a guide going in blind. Game has enough information and is easy enough. Instead we get the same bullshit as with From games, people blowing stuff out of proportions to give themselves a sense of superiority. I guess streamers/youtubers also pile in on this because guess what... it's what they're selling.
You heard/read/thought the game has a high barrier for creating a build and your response was to not even try? Do you trully consider yourself that DUMB? If you couldn't run the game because your computer was shit, why not finish it once as intended? You were familiar with the basic mechanics so should have been even easier to get a good enough build.
Grunker probably did more wrong recommending guides to people than he realizes. He implicitly tells them the game is hard/complex when first thing he recommends are guides. And since when giving people solutions before they even struggled made them appreciate anything? Case in point, you instantly gave up and started to give suggestions.
You heard/read/thought the game has a high barrier for creating a build and your response was to not even try? Do you trully consider yourself that DUMB? If you couldn't run the game because your computer was shit, why not finish it once as intended? You were familiar with the basic mechanics so should have been even easier to get a good enough build.
Grunker probably did more wrong recommending guides to people than he realizes. He implicitly tells them the game is hard/complex when first thing he recommends are guides. And since when giving people solutions before they even struggled made them appreciate anything? Case in point, you instantly gave up and started to give suggestions.
So... you didn't start with a guide. You probably finished the campaign and got to maps on your own, probably when game had even less onboarding. It just wasn't optimal. And you somehow think robbing people of that experience is the right thing to do because... you like zoom zoom easy mode? Or do you think of yourself as such an enlightened gamer other people couldn't possible manage to play the game if you struggled?
It's not that the game is hard, merely that it requires a time investment that most people aren't willing to commit to. The time investment for myself would undoubtedly be far less than for someone else, but that doesn't change the fact that I couldn't be arsed. I don't want to spend a few hours reading through all the mechanics and looking over the skill tree to count multipliers and do basic arithmetic, all to make a build that functions just well enough to make it through the campaign before faltering at the start of maps. I don't find enjoyment in such things, and I'd instead prefer to make my way through the game, see if I enjoy it, and then commit to the time investment with aids such as guides to speed things up.
If you scroll back to my posts where I'm asking for guides, before or right after I asked, I had queried on the time investment to become competent enough to design your own builds viable for end game mapping. Obviously I'm interested in learning for myself as evidenced by these posts.
It's akin to reading a chess book to learn basic theory instead of spending hundreds of hours theorizing and trying out different strategies before coming up with something that's not even a quarter as effective as the pre-established openings. Some enjoy that process of discovering new, I instead prefer the process of doing. If you want to assert that said trait reflects poorly on my creativity, I'd agree with you. I can appreciate those who have a passion for such things but I frankly do not and there is no point in trying to force things, especially when at the end of the day this is a video game. There is still learning to be had, and creating a build itself is an exercise in that aforementioned creativity, albeit not as pure, with parts of it cut out and a certain stifling of potential.
And finally, I love how you skipped past my very valid argument in regards to why my critiques are even more valid because of the type of person that I am, and how the average gamer, much less casual, are even less likely to go down the path you outlined and instead far more likely to go down the path that I went down. That's because you don't have a rebuttal, and instead have resorted to trying to make this an argument about whether or not I/we're cowards/lazy/unintelligent, when that is a non sequitur.
False equivalency. Reading guides has nothing to do with a game being zoom-zoom, and you yourself stated that the game isn't "that" hard, that ARPG is an extremely easy genre. As I said above, it's not the difficulty that's the issue, but the time investment required, and if Grunker knows the people that he's recommending things to, he probably is able to judge whether or not they'd appreciate such an experience versus being turned off by it and just not bothering with the game.
It's very tiresome having to explain every little detail in such painstaking terms, either because you're too stupid to understand or because your biases render you purposefully obtuse to the actual points that are being made.
Jason Liang
Arcane
A couple of points:
- POE does have a weird pacing issue, in that a new player can get very far into the campaign without actually learning to use basic things like support gems and basic crafting. Then they hit a brick wall since before then there was no real challenge pushing them to learn and improve.
- This current iteration of POE is probably the smoothest and most streamlined new player experience as its been for years. Many league mechanics were removed (like Prophecy) or moved to the Atlas (like Breach, Delirium, etc...). Some of the more grueling areas in each act were removed.
- There's a big difference between new player build guides and meta build guides. I didn't use a new player build guide but I have been playing this game on and off since when it only had 3 acts. New player build guides are there for more casual players that need more hand holding and have less time to experiment. ItsChon isn't a new player and wasn't asking for a new player build guide.
- The Atlas/ League mechanics are not the core PoE experience. The core experience is the skill gem/ support gem system, the crafting/ economy/ trading system, and along with the skill tree and later the Atlas tree, the ability to customize in extreme detail the character you want to play and the endgame/ infinite play you want to experience as well as your goals for playing.
- In that sense, ultimately you can't use guides to get the most out of playing PoE, since experimenting with gems, gear, keynote and ascendancy passives, crafting and trading is the core PoE experience. In fact PoE is very much a quintessential "the medium is the message" game. You've got to know how to search builds on poe.ninja and be able to analyze how it works on your own to be getting the real PoE experience.
- POE does have a weird pacing issue, in that a new player can get very far into the campaign without actually learning to use basic things like support gems and basic crafting. Then they hit a brick wall since before then there was no real challenge pushing them to learn and improve.
- This current iteration of POE is probably the smoothest and most streamlined new player experience as its been for years. Many league mechanics were removed (like Prophecy) or moved to the Atlas (like Breach, Delirium, etc...). Some of the more grueling areas in each act were removed.
- There's a big difference between new player build guides and meta build guides. I didn't use a new player build guide but I have been playing this game on and off since when it only had 3 acts. New player build guides are there for more casual players that need more hand holding and have less time to experiment. ItsChon isn't a new player and wasn't asking for a new player build guide.
- The Atlas/ League mechanics are not the core PoE experience. The core experience is the skill gem/ support gem system, the crafting/ economy/ trading system, and along with the skill tree and later the Atlas tree, the ability to customize in extreme detail the character you want to play and the endgame/ infinite play you want to experience as well as your goals for playing.
- In that sense, ultimately you can't use guides to get the most out of playing PoE, since experimenting with gems, gear, keynote and ascendancy passives, crafting and trading is the core PoE experience. In fact PoE is very much a quintessential "the medium is the message" game. You've got to know how to search builds on poe.ninja and be able to analyze how it works on your own to be getting the real PoE experience.
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- 9,973
This is true. But most long term players consider the campaign an obstacle to starting the real game. Whether this is true or not can be debated, but it means "you can beat the campaign blind" a poor argument.
Imo, it is bad to recommend people to start with a guide. At least tell them to run a character or two on their own merits and maybe then look up a guide if they find they hit a brick wall in maps (which they almost certainly will). Especially now, when almost every active skill is viable for beating the campaign (which wasn't always the case).
Zeriel
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,679
It sounds like you just don't like good games. That's fine, there is a whole market of Assassin Creeds for you to enjoy. Just fuck off from games with depth and enjoy your QTEs.
It's actually horrifying to me how many people in this thread took the guidepill. Even the people defending the game are utterly wrong on this, from my perspective. No, you don't need to use guides to play the game. There is nothing remotely slow about any build I've ever made on my own (which is all of them). You just need to be capable of learning on your own. Which should have been a skill taught to anyone who played games in the 80s, 90s, and 00's.
The argument shouldn't be "the game is fine because you can read a guide from a streamer", it should be (and is), the game is fine because you can learn anything you need to by just playing the fucking game. It's not that hard. If anything the powercreep means you can make a plethora of mistakes and still cruise through red maps without ever touching a guide. Okay, maybe I'll make an exception here for stuff like "look up a wiki on Ascendancy/boss mechanics", but that's a far cry from "lazily and slavishly follow someone else's build instructions to the letter".
ArchAngel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 20,500
I have a friend that played PoE1 for 1-2 years and I only got him to try it because I showed him a good video guide to follow. And even with that he got bored with the game and quit it after playing for few leagues (and he got HH in one LOL). Some people just do not have time or patience to go into PoE 100%.
Even for me it is hard to look at the amount of time POE takes from you and think that is well invested time. Whenever 'Dex GotY time comes I find myself figuring out that beside PoE I rarely played other new games each year.
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Baron Dupek
Arcane
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- Jul 23, 2013
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^
that's still p. generous considering removal of 10% STR, covering in ashes and useful totem node
I'll give it same number as Assassin after recent rework
that's still p. generous considering removal of 10% STR, covering in ashes and useful totem node
I'll give it same number as Assassin after recent rework
ArchAngel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 20,500
Sure, it is why I play PoE less and less while waiting for PoE2.
Hey guys, I'm been thinking whether it's possible now, but can I have a build in POE1 like a type of zippy electrical guy?
Something like blink strike with electricity cosmetic?
And also, is there a skill that acts as a type of "charge up", like you stand there for a some seconds, charging up, and every second it gives you something like +10% damage and/or attack speed, and it has 5 charge levels, each charge level lasts 10 seconds, and is increased by 10 seconds per charge, so at charge level 5 it'd last for like 50 seconds.
Is there something like this? Or possible?
Something like blink strike with electricity cosmetic?
And also, is there a skill that acts as a type of "charge up", like you stand there for a some seconds, charging up, and every second it gives you something like +10% damage and/or attack speed, and it has 5 charge levels, each charge level lasts 10 seconds, and is increased by 10 seconds per charge, so at charge level 5 it'd last for like 50 seconds.
Is there something like this? Or possible?
430am
Educated
PoE basically culminates into you running maps as fast as possible. So the whole charging up thing isn't something you'd want to build around. Especially if there's 50 powered enemies on screen, standing still is very bad news. As for dashing around yeah, I can think of a couple skills like that.
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