Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Sillyturtle]

Fauchard Biting Tripper Build

Thank you very much for posting this character. I am going to try it on my first playthrough.

I'm downloading Pathfinder Kingmaker and the DLC's on Steam right now.

Just one question if I may ask Haplo : What is the level order for these classes? I'm looking for it but I don't see it listed. Am I blind?

 

[Efe]

Its literally in the post you quoted

Feats:
1 Combat Expertise
2 (Discovery) Feral Mutagen
3 Traditional Monk: Monk bonus: Crane Style; Trip
4
5 (Discovery) Combat Trick: Outflank; Combat Reflexes
6
7 (Discovery) Fury's Fall; Power Attack* (if you don't have another dedicated Intimidator in your party, prioritize Intimidating Prowess instead).
8
9 Sword Saint: Fauchard; SS: Exotic Proficiency: Fauchard; SS: Weapon Focus: Fauchard; Greater Trip
10 (Discovery) Combat Trick: Dazzling Display
11 Shatter Defenses* (works in tandem with Dazzling Display; preferably have another dedicated Intimidator character in your party for this; this build can serve that role, but initially won't be very good at it... and you don't want to spend rounds on Dazzling when you should be tripping and killing left, right and center)
12 (Discovery) Crippling Strike
13 Improved Critical Fauchard
14 (Discovery) Greater Mutagen
15 Archeologist Seize the Moment*
16 Archeologist /Uncanny Dodge/ Bard Bonus: Opportunist
17 DD Intimidating Prowess* (if you've already picked this at level 7, pick Power Attack instead)
18 DD /Dragon Bite/; DD bonus: Blind Fight
19 DD Dreadful Carnage* /pick Mirror Image Spell/
20 DD

 

[Sillyturtle]

Its literally in the post you quoted

Feats:
1 Combat Expertise
2 (Discovery) Feral Mutagen
3 Traditional Monk: Monk bonus: Crane Style; Trip
4
5 (Discovery) Combat Trick: Outflank; Combat Reflexes
6
7 (Discovery) Fury's Fall; Power Attack* (if you don't have another dedicated Intimidator in your party, prioritize Intimidating Prowess instead).
8
9 Sword Saint: Fauchard; SS: Exotic Proficiency: Fauchard; SS: Weapon Focus: Fauchard; Greater Trip
10 (Discovery) Combat Trick: Dazzling Display
11 Shatter Defenses* (works in tandem with Dazzling Display; preferably have another dedicated Intimidator character in your party for this; this build can serve that role, but initially won't be very good at it... and you don't want to spend rounds on Dazzling when you should be tripping and killing left, right and center)
12 (Discovery) Crippling Strike
13 Improved Critical Fauchard
14 (Discovery) Greater Mutagen
15 Archeologist Seize the Moment*
16 Archeologist /Uncanny Dodge/ Bard Bonus: Opportunist
17 DD Intimidating Prowess* (if you've already picked this at level 7, pick Power Attack instead)
18 DD /Dragon Bite/; DD bonus: Blind Fight
19 DD Dreadful Carnage* /pick Mirror Image Spell/
20 DD

.... That'll teach me for posting when I'm sick.

Thank you for showing me.

 

[P-Stache]

What's the easiest/best way to go around building an elf with an elven curve blade? Is going STR stronger than DEX in this case? Do you guys have any ideas/build suggestions for this?

 

[Crazed Weevil]

What's the easiest/best way to go around building an elf with an elven curve blade? Is going STR stronger than DEX in this case? Do you guys have any ideas/build suggestions for this?

You can do either, but I like to use DEX since the Elven Curved Blade favours that. However you will need at least three levels of Rogue to get it to work right. I did a human version of this on normal difficulty, but Elf version should work as well...try this:

Stats:
STR: 8
DEX: 19
CON: 12
INT: 16
WIS: 12
CHR: 12

1. Slayer - Dodge
2. Rogue/Thug - (Weapon Finesse)
3. Rogue/Thug - Improved Unarmed Strike, Crane Style (Combat Trick)
4. Rogue/Thug - +1 DEX, (Finesse Training (Elven Curved Blade))
5. Rogue/Thug - Weapon Focus (Elven Curved Blade), Outflank (Combat Trick)
6. Slayer - Power Attack (Combat Style Feat (Two Handed Weapon))
7. Slayer - Dazzling Display
8. Slayer - +1 DEX, Shatter Defenses
9. Slayer - Combat Reflexes
10. Slayer - Cleaving Finish (Combat Style Feat (Two Handed Weapon))
11. Slayer - Accomplished Sneak Attacker
12. Slayer - +1 DEX, Improved Critical (Elven Curved Blade)
13. Slayer - Critical Focus
14. Slayer - Dreadful Carnage (Combat Style Feat (Two Handed Weapon))
15. Rogue/Thug - Blind Fight
16. Rogue/Thug - +1 DEX, Opportunist
17. Rogue/Thug - Blinding Critical
18. Rogue/Thug - Crippling Strike
19. Slayer - Toughness
20. Slayer - +1 DEX, Improved Evasion

Notes: with this you won't start with an Elven Curved Blade and you'll have a tough time until you get to level 2 and can get one from Oleg's. Human version can start the game with one, but has the same problem with hitting until level 2. I'd suggest using a bow until then. After that damage doesn't really kick in until level 4, but you'll be able to hit nearly everything without much trouble. Pacing wise everything after level 8 can be changed to fit where you are in the game (like leaving Improved Critical until later since you'll likely be using a Keen version of the Elven Curved Blade for a while so there is no point getting it until you find a better non-Keen version).

Equipment wise you'll want Bane of the Living, which you can get mid game about level 12, but it's one hell of a fight at that level. I managed it at level 14 with a bit of luck but I'm sure people have done it sooner. Bane of the Living is one of the most OP things in the game as it'll do an additional 75-150 points of damage on a critical hit and you will crit a lot with this build (15-20). Other than that though, just equip the best bracers you have and go with stuff that improves AC & stats.

I've tanked with this on Normal difficulty, but it could probably handle Hard as well, but any higher and it just won't have the AC for it. Attack power is insane though. Things just melt, especially when you have Nok-Nok in the party as you'll both feed off each others crits for extra attacks.

Alternative version is to use Slayer/Deliverer and pick Irori as your deity to get free Improved Unarmed Strike. You'll also get Divine Anathema for a bane like effect on anyone two alignment steps from you. However this kind of forces you to play Lawful Good to get the most from it and it also forces you take your Combat Style Feats later than a normal Slayer which isn't the end of the world, but I like getting Dreadful Carnage as early as possible. And finally you don't have to use Thug as your Rogue archetype if you find the fear effect too annoying, a regular one works just as well. I like it because of the Brutal Beating feat you get at level 3 which adds Sickened to anyone you sneak attack for the cost of one sneak attack die which is a good debuff.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Crazed Weevil Can't you skip Dazzling Display by using the Slayer Talents?

 

[Crazed Weevil]

Crazed Weevil Can't you skip Dazzling Display by using the Slayer Talents?

Yes, if you take the Menacing style feats instead. Take Dazzling Display in place of Power Attack @ level 6, then Power Attack @ level 10. Will also free up a feat since you won't get Cleaving Finish which you can use on anything you like really. Personally I preferred getting Power Attack early and Cleaving Finish is a free attack. You will be killing a lot of enemies yourself with the amount of damage you can do so it should trigger quite a lot (though it seems a little buggy and doesn't always go off).

 

[Sillyturtle]

On my first playthrough of the game and I'm using the Tripping Biting Vivisectionist thinger that Haplo made.

My question is, what's the strategy for this? You enter combat, down your Mutagen and then go to town. But then the fights over and you're out of Mutagens. Do you just rest until you have more then continue?

 

[NJClaw]

On my first playthrough of the game and I'm using the Tripping Biting Vivisectionist thinger that Haplo made.

My question is, what's the strategy for this? You enter combat, down your Mutagen and then go to town. But then the fights over and you're out of Mutagens. Do you just rest until you have more then continue?

You have a single mutagen, but it lasts 10 minutes/level. Except for the very few first levels, it should last enough to complete a very big area/dungeon.

Even when you don't have your mutagen, the character is still far from useless, you definitely don't need to rest only because you're out of it.

You also have extracts: they last less, but you have more uses. At first, you can use them before big fights, but after a while their duration will be enough to last an entire area and you can use them like the mutagen.

 

[Haplo]

Try not to use Mutagen for tiny areas (unless you need to due to difficulty). After level 4 or so Mutagen should last you trough all of the big ones.

 

[Sillyturtle]

Thank you both.

 

[smooge]

Haplo I was curious reading your two builds (STR Saint and Vivi trip) about if the Vivi trip build can tank for the group as well as a Sword Saint can? Because so far my main tank is sword saint str with a monk dip obviously and planning him to be just auto attacker who uses spells to self-buff (so no shock, do not use EA). Maybe down the road I should think of dipping him more with 2 pally for saves not sure. People keep mentioning Rogue/Bard too for Uncanny Dodge but as Saint I have improved initiative think no.

So all in all I wasn't sure, if I am not just shutting myself in the leg and if Vivi would tank as well as Saint here. Because I would welcome mutagen and more feats.

 

[NJClaw]

Haplo I was curious reading your two builds (STR Saint and Vivi trip) about if the Vivi trip build can tank for the group as well as a Sword Saint can? Because so far my main tank is sword saint str with a monk dip obviously and planning him to be just auto attacker who uses spells to self-buff (so no shock, do not use EA). Maybe down the road I should think of dipping him more with 2 pally for saves not sure. People keep mentioning Rogue/Bard too for Uncanny Dodge but as Saint I have improved initiative think no.

So all in all I wasn't sure, if I am not just shutting myself in the leg and if Vivi would tank as well as Saint here. Because I would welcome mutagen and more feats.

If by "can tank" you mean "can stand in the middle of the enemies without being hit", the answer is yes, it can. With Mage Armor (later Bracers of Armor), Shield, Barkskin, Magical Vestment and the mutagen, you can reach without problems an AC so high that very few enemies will hit on anything but a natural 20 (if you go for a Dexterity-based Vivisectionist, your AC will be even higher). You will obviously miss out on Mirror Image (and that's a big downside), but you can finish the game nonetheless without too much problems.

 

[Desiderius]

Haplo I was curious reading your two builds (STR Saint and Vivi trip) about if the Vivi trip build can tank for the group as well as a Sword Saint can? Because so far my main tank is sword saint str with a monk dip obviously and planning him to be just auto attacker who uses spells to self-buff (so no shock, do not use EA). Maybe down the road I should think of dipping him more with 2 pally for saves not sure. People keep mentioning Rogue/Bard too for Uncanny Dodge but as Saint I have improved initiative think no.

So all in all I wasn't sure, if I am not just shutting myself in the leg and if Vivi would tank as well as Saint here. Because I would welcome mutagen and more feats.

If by "can tank" you mean "can stand in the middle of the enemies without being hit", the answer is yes, it can. With Mage Armor (later Bracers of Armor), Shield, Barkskin, Magical Vestment and the mutagen, you can reach without problems an AC so high that very few enemies will hit on anything but a natural 20 (if you go for a Dexterity-based Vivisectionist, your AC will be even higher). You will obviously miss out on Mirror Image (and that's a big downside), but you can finish the game nonetheless without too much problems.

A traditional tank without Mirror Image will be a problem (if you're trying to solo for instance). 1 out of 20 chance of death ain't nothing, and on Unfair there are things that can one-shot you without necessarily critting. But Hap's builds aren't traditional tanks. You kill/Trip shit before they get many attacks in and should have a good supporting cast to help as well. This isn't a tank, spank, and heal kind of game.

Monk splash is far from obvious. You only get the benefit after you attack (this is big without Uncanny Dodge) and it's only defensive. The build is about offense. Monk splash is only good if you're using CHR/WIS to AC.

On Vivi it isn't good enough and on Sword Saint it isn't necessary.

 

[smooge]

Well, sword saint str would certainly benefit of the monk level as I have high charisma (MC - roleplay). Although I wanted to go high Wis (backstory for my MC) and that would also benefit me with will saves. Dex sword saint does not need it that much I would say.

When we are talking about Dex, I wanted to ask, if Dex to dmg (Be it rogue 3lvs or that magus feat slashing) does change 1.5 str modifier on 2h to 1.5 dex modifier or not. If somebody tried it?

 

[Desiderius]

Main problem for DEX is you lose out on Enlarge. Every level of SS is OP. Don’t waste one one a few AC you don’t need (Monk splash).

 

[smooge]

I mean I play on hard and he is the tank. Still getting hit though .... I respected Amiri to mad dog ... she just needs to do one charge and kill them but with turn based mod I am realizing that Initiative on tank is important ....

Also Enlarge and Legendary proportion is amazing but dex scion just loses ton of damage while not being that much tankier. Read somewhere some calculation from Haplo and In effect regarding it.

 

[Desiderius]

I mean I play on hard and he is the tank. Still getting hit though .... I respected Amiri to mad dog ... she just needs to do one charge and kill them but with turn based mod I am realizing that Initiative on tank is important ....

Also Enlarge and Legendary proportion is amazing but dex scion just loses ton of damage while not being that much tankier. Read somewhere some calculation from Haplo and In effect regarding it.

Yes, play STR-based with Shield and Image and have someone who can get you a max Barkskin and Shield of Faith and you should be good.

There are a couple mobs where it’s just easier to control/distract than straight up tank. If you try to constrict yourself to tank those few you’ll end up gimping your build.

I play on Hard and test on Unfair.

 

[NJClaw]

Haplo I was curious reading your two builds (STR Saint and Vivi trip) about if the Vivi trip build can tank for the group as well as a Sword Saint can? Because so far my main tank is sword saint str with a monk dip obviously and planning him to be just auto attacker who uses spells to self-buff (so no shock, do not use EA). Maybe down the road I should think of dipping him more with 2 pally for saves not sure. People keep mentioning Rogue/Bard too for Uncanny Dodge but as Saint I have improved initiative think no.

So all in all I wasn't sure, if I am not just shutting myself in the leg and if Vivi would tank as well as Saint here. Because I would welcome mutagen and more feats.

If by "can tank" you mean "can stand in the middle of the enemies without being hit", the answer is yes, it can. With Mage Armor (later Bracers of Armor), Shield, Barkskin, Magical Vestment and the mutagen, you can reach without problems an AC so high that very few enemies will hit on anything but a natural 20 (if you go for a Dexterity-based Vivisectionist, your AC will be even higher). You will obviously miss out on Mirror Image (and that's a big downside), but you can finish the game nonetheless without too much problems.

A traditional tank without Mirror Image will be a problem (if you're trying to solo for instance). 1 out of 20 chance of death ain't nothing, and on Unfair there are things that can one-shot you without necessarily critting. But Hap's builds aren't traditional tanks. You kill/Trip shit before they get many attacks in and should have a good supporting cast to help as well. This isn't a tank, spank, and heal kind of game.

Okay, a traditional tank without Mirror Image is a problem if you are trying to solo on unfair, fine. He is not trying to solo on unfair, so I think we can agree that's completely irrelevant. Also, unless we are talking about the very first few levels, it's definitely not 1 out of 20 chance of death, not even close.

If your point is that it's impossible to finish the game on hard if your tank doesn't have Mirror Image, you are wrong. It's a great spell and it's my favorite defensive buff, but it's not absolutely necessary. My last playthrough was on hard, not a single character ever casted Mirror Image and it wasn't a problem at all.

 

[Desiderius]

A traditional tank without Mirror Image will be a problem (if you're trying to solo for instance). 1 out of 20 chance of death ain't nothing, and on Unfair there are things that can one-shot you without necessarily critting. But Hap's builds aren't traditional tanks. You kill/Trip shit before they get many attacks in and should have a good supporting cast to help as well. This isn't a tank, spank, and heal kind of game.

Okay, a traditional tank without Mirror Image is a problem if you are trying to solo on unfair, fine. He is not trying to solo on unfair, so I think we can agree that's completely irrelevant. Also, unless we are talking about the very first few levels, it's definitely not 1 out of 20 chance of death, not even close.

If your point is that it's impossible to finish the game on hard if your tank doesn't have Mirror Image, you are wrong. It's a great spell and it's my favorite defensive buff, but it's not absolutely necessary. My last playthrough was on hard, not a single character ever casted Mirror Image and it wasn't a problem at all.

Yes, that is what I just said. Glad we’re in agreement. Don’t try to tank and spank*, but if you do use Image. It's not completely irrelevant for that, it's nearly mandatory unless you're planning to do a lot of reloading/rezzing. It's handy to have on other melee toons but far from necessary there.

Greater Zombie Giants will one shot you on Unfair, and there are plenty of things that can get you close enough to be a problem.

* - kill fast with everyone, even casters, able to do solid damage/tank with summons/use difficult terrain to control battlefield

 

[smooge]

Well I am trying to make 4 man party but still deciding on the best party compositions (hired or respected companions). Figured SS would be tank of the party then I would need some solid dps and then divine and arcane caster?

 

[Desiderius]

I like to have Bard for Good Hope, Inspire Courage, and Dirge of Doom; Alchemist for Infusions/Barkskins and Touch damage/debuff bombs, Freebooter for Bane and Bond + Combat Style Feats (Cleave line is strongest), and Cleric for Archon’s Aura (Harrim also gives you Destructive Aura and Touch of Chaos, Tristian has Touch of Good) and Channeling for easy healing after combat.

Necessity in that order.

As we’ve said, you don’t need a tank. Tank, spank, and heal isn’t a thing. It’s one of the main features of the game (to subvert that and open up more interesting possibilities).

 

[Yosharian]

'Tank' can be misleading, but you definitely need someone who has good AC, and it's preferable for him to have good saves, too

 

[razvedchiki]

hope that mobs in wrath will use dispel, that will trash 99% of the tank builds.

 

[Desiderius]

'Tank' can be misleading, but you definitely need someone who has good AC, and it's preferable for him to have good saves, too

That’s true of all front line melee. The expectation that you’ll have one invulnerable dude catching all aggro is largely mistaken. You can use a solo build to sort of do that, but it kind of misses the point of the game.

Much easier to just have whole team with reasonable AC/saves and solid damage/control to get full benefit from strong group dynamics. Mirror Image (and Displacement for harder fights) becomes more valuable with that approach to cover your ass.