Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Trashos]

So, I am at Lamashtu's Womb, trying to take care of the Bloom Season source. While in the caves, at some point there is a book adventure that takes you to a deeper area. In the picture of the book adventure, the entrance of the deeper area looks like a pussy.

Womb... pussy... Is the Bloom a metaphor for an aphrodisiac disease? I don't know, I just find this intriguing. Not sure why it is like this.

 

[Desiderius]

desiderius uses tristan to melee

The pics are coming soon, very soon, to make all you haters rue your silly ratings. You’ll see. I think. Forgot he’s Blind late too.

If you’re running Tristian midgame STR belt + Enlarge get him to 16 and he’s still a 3/4 class. Main reason for melee is positioning for Aura/spells but he chips in with all the ridiculous two-handers in this game.

He's not done yet, but he's not bad. Blindfight looks like it lets him reroll his attacks:



But he's still permanently Flat-footed on D. However with Echolocation:



Everything's fine.

Nice Fortitude:



Decent AC:



Add on 4 more for Crane Wing and with Image he tanks pretty well.

Kalikke trying out her new Diadem:

 

[Pink Eye]

Question for peeps who played this for +1,5k hours: would a playthrough without a dedicated healer/buffer be very painful?

The game showers you with plenty of potions and healing scrolls. Later you get an infinite amount of Heal scrolls. No, the better question you should be asking,"Is the game doable WITHOUT a dedicated buffer, i.e a cleric/bard/wizard/druid/alchemist etc". The answer, it's going to be painful as all hell. You NEEED a dedicated buffer. Martial based characters live and die by the support of a buffer. A buffer can turn your puny martial character from a meh character, to a god.
For example: Legendary Props + Buffs = Big Dmg

Of course this was all on unfair. You probably can get away without a buffer on the lower difficulties. Doubt it though.

 

[Desiderius]

Question for peeps who played this for +1,5k hours: would a playthrough without a dedicated healer/buffer be very painful?

The game showers you with plenty of potions and healing scrolls. Later you get an infinite amount of Heal scrolls. No, the better question you should be asking,"Is the game doable WITHOUT a dedicated buffer, i.e a cleric/bard/wizard/druid/alchemist etc". The answer, it's going to be painful as all hell. You NEEED a dedicated buffer. Martial based characters live and die by the support of a buffer. A buffer can turn your puny martial character from a meh character, to a god.
For example: Legendary Props + Buffs = Big Dmg

Of course this was all on unfair. You probably can get away without a buffer on the lower difficulties. Doubt it though.

Unfair without a Bard or Freebooter. That's InEffect level difficulty right there. Well done.

 

[Pink Eye]

Question for peeps who played this for +1,5k hours: would a playthrough without a dedicated healer/buffer be very painful?

The game showers you with plenty of potions and healing scrolls. Later you get an infinite amount of Heal scrolls. No, the better question you should be asking,"Is the game doable WITHOUT a dedicated buffer, i.e a cleric/bard/wizard/druid/alchemist etc". The answer, it's going to be painful as all hell. You NEEED a dedicated buffer. Martial based characters live and die by the support of a buffer. A buffer can turn your puny martial character from a meh character, to a god.
For example: Legendary Props + Buffs = Big Dmg

Of course this was all on unfair. You probably can get away without a buffer on the lower difficulties. Doubt it though.

Unfair without a Bard or Freebooter. That's InEffect level difficulty right there. Well done.

I'm telling you man. Mystic Theurge is not a bad class.

 

[Pink Eye]

Psst, what are your guys thoughts on Power Attack.
There's a thread on reddit calling into question the effectiveness of Power Attack: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/dm6ld9/power_attack_is_actuallyterrible/

I always take it on all of my martial builds.

 

[Desiderius]

Psst, what are your guys thoughts on Power Attack.
There's a thread on reddit calling into question the effectiveness of Power Attack: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/dm6ld9/power_attack_is_actuallyterrible/

I always take it on all of my martial builds.

I just started using it to cash in my high ABs. Not sure it's the thing for you. I'm aware that Theurge is a perfectly fine class, though I'm not sure what that has to do with that picture. Jub can do Legendary.

 

[Desiderius]

Psst, what are your guys thoughts on Power Attack.
There's a thread on reddit calling into question the effectiveness of Power Attack: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/dm6ld9/power_attack_is_actuallyterrible/

I always take it on all of my martial builds.

Lol. InEffect is there at the end thinking the thread vindicates his inability to hit the broadside of a barn while the guy right before him nails it.

 

[Pink Eye]

Psst, what are your guys thoughts on Power Attack.
There's a thread on reddit calling into question the effectiveness of Power Attack: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/dm6ld9/power_attack_is_actuallyterrible/

I always take it on all of my martial builds.

I just started using it to cash in my high ABs. Not sure it's the thing for you. I'm aware that Theurge is a perfectly fine class, though I'm not sure what that has to do with that picture. Jub can do Legendary.

It's been a while since I last played. I'm currently taking a break from the game. Unfair Iron man mode is pretty stressful. So I can't remember what happened in that picture. Anyways as to what Mystic Theurge has to do with that picture. I'm not sure, lol.

 

[Desiderius]

One objective in this game is to get to the point where this sort of shit doesn't matter:

 

[Haplo]

Psst, what are your guys thoughts on Power Attack.
There's a thread on reddit calling into question the effectiveness of Power Attack: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/dm6ld9/power_attack_is_actuallyterrible/

I always take it on all of my martial builds.

Very rarely useful IMO. Sure, when you superbuff, sing, Shatter, pile up on an enemy with Outflank, Bond, Bane, what have you, it may be helpful. But most normal encounters don't need that later on and it's not practical, when enemies die to one full attack anyway.

Sometimes I take it, mainly to access Dreadful Carnage. I suppose for the right character it can also be necessary for Cleave.

 

[Pink Eye]

Psst, what are your guys thoughts on Power Attack.
There's a thread on reddit calling into question the effectiveness of Power Attack: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/dm6ld9/power_attack_is_actuallyterrible/

I always take it on all of my martial builds.

Very rarely useful IMO. Sure, when you superbuff, sing, Shatter, pile up on an enemy with Outflank, Bond, Bane, what have you, it may be helpful. But most normal encounters don't need that later on and it's not practical, when enemies die to one full attack anyway.

Sometimes I take it, mainly to access Dreadful Carnage. I suppose for the right character it can also be necessary for Cleave.

A martial build without Power Attack?

 

[Haplo]

Sure, why not?

 

[Pink Eye]

Sure, why not?

Haplo, explain yourself here. Why would you NOT take Power Attack? It's basically free damage...

 

[Desiderius]

Sure, why not?

Haplo, explain yourself here. Why would you NOT take Power Attack? It's basically free damage...

Not if you miss. That's what that Reddit thread was about.

One of my main reasons to play Ranger/Slayer was to use Combat Style Feats to bypass it.

But it's really not that hard to activate Bond and Dirge (and now Inspiring Command from Ekun/Destructive Aura from Harrim) before each fight, then switch to Courage or Heroics. The only single target buff I'm regularly using is Barkskin from Jub and that lasts forever so it's fire and forget at the same time you cast your extended Good Hope and Archon's. And Vestment which lasts so long sometimes its still on after resting.

Bane/Charge/Cleave is an easy rhythm in combat. Since I'm not doing many iterative attacks and my first (i.e. Cleave/Charge) attack is regularly at a higher AB than the mob's AC, and I'm STR two-handing, Power Attack is a good fit. I think - just started using it.

Likewise Deadly Aim on my MC Dual Slayer, though there I don't get flanking/Outflank and I'm -4/-4 currently because Jav isn't light. Aim Hat helps. May need to go back to axe off-hand but she's still hitting plenty and plenty hard. Shatter is that good.

As for other melee, Harrim does good damage in routine fights but that's not his primary role so he won't get it mostly due to feat shortage. Likewise Linzi with Piranha.

 

[Haplo]

Sure, why not?

Haplo, explain yourself here. Why would you NOT take Power Attack? It's basically free damage...

Not if you miss.

There is your answer.

Though the rest of Desiderius' post is good and worth the read also

 

[Sykar]

Question for peeps who played this for +1,5k hours: would a playthrough without a dedicated healer/buffer be very painful?

The game showers you with plenty of potions and healing scrolls. Later you get an infinite amount of Heal scrolls. No, the better question you should be asking,"Is the game doable WITHOUT a dedicated buffer, i.e a cleric/bard/wizard/druid/alchemist etc". The answer, it's going to be painful as all hell. You NEEED a dedicated buffer. Martial based characters live and die by the support of a buffer. A buffer can turn your puny martial character from a meh character, to a god.
For example: Legendary Props + Buffs = Big Dmg

Of course this was all on unfair. You probably can get away without a buffer on the lower difficulties. Doubt it though.

Unfair without a Bard or Freebooter. That's InEffect level difficulty right there. Well done.

I'm telling you man. Mystic Theurge is not a bad class.

The problem is that you have a big delay to reach certain important spell levels while getting questionable returns. Early on MT is very lackluster and needs really high level to start to shine, but by then not much of the game is left and for much of that time, any decently optimized wizard, sorcerer, cleric, druid, etc would have been substantially superior.

 

[ArchAngel]

I find power attack useful in certain situations (like enemy has high DR or it is prone) but it should not be on all the time. It is there to combat high life, low AC enemies. At least it was in 3.5e but in pathfinder everyone does even more damage so its effectiveness is even more in question.

 

[Sykar]

I find power attack useful in certain situations (like enemy has high DR or it is prone) but it should not be on all the time. It is there to combat high life, low AC enemies. At least it was in 3.5e but in pathfinder everyone does even more damage so its effectiveness is even more in question.

Power Attack scales with BAB and benefits from two-handed weapon/wielding extra damage bonus, increasing the bonus by 50%. It benefits from crit multiplier as well, so Power Attack stays good throughout the game, you just have to be able to handle the increasing attack malus.

 

[Pink Eye]

That's fine guys. I'm still going to take Power Attack, lol. Free damage is free damage. I can see Power Attack not being worth it, if you have a character that isn't able to dish out a lot of attacks per round. Which isn't a problem for my monks - see:

Even then, with haste and other buffs, a fighter should still be able to dish out at least 5 attacks per round. One of those hits is bound to hit, and when it does, Power Attack will do it's job.

 

[razvedchiki]

finally decided to drop octavia and get amiri for some second row melee love,whats the best weapon for her fauchard/glaive/bardiche?
though if i build her like that she will get creampasted on later one on one duels with certain story npcs.....

 

[Pink Eye]

I also forgot to mention. With Outflank + Combat Reflexes + Seize the Moment = multiple attacks of opportunity. What this means is that your chance to hit goes up even more significantly. Power Attack is great. If you build around it. If you just take it by itself, yeah its kind of useless. However if you take the teamwork feats + haste, you should be mowing down encounters like there is no tomorrow. I always take Power Attack on my martial builds, because it is that good.

 

[Daidre]

My rule of thumb for Power Attack is - mostly for builds with 2-handers and on lvl 7-8+, when Outflank, Good Hope and Bard Songs come online.

 

[ArchAngel]

I also forgot to mention. With Outflank + Combat Reflexes + Seize the Moment = multiple attacks of opportunity. What this means is that your chance to hit goes up even more significantly. Power Attack is great. If you build around it. If you just take it by itself, yeah its kind of useless. However if you take the teamwork feats + haste, you should be mowing down encounters like there is no tomorrow. I always take Power Attack on my martial builds, because it is that good.

Best way to know if power attack works is to note down 100 attacks by one of your guys and note how many times he missed by the amount of power attack penalty to hit. Then check if damage lost by that is more or less than if you just didn't use power attack at all.
Considering your guys have 8 attacks you might want to do that with 200 attacks so you can get a bigger range of different battles.

 

[Trashos]

That's fine guys. I'm still going to take Power Attack, lol. Free damage is free damage. I can see Power Attack not being worth it, if you have a character that isn't able to dish out a lot of attacks per round.

I don't know the game very well yet, but my gut feeling says that Power Attack should be even worse for characters with multiple attacks. DPS should be greatly reduced for such characters when using Power Attack (under non-extreme circumstances). It can't be any other way, unless the Power Attack bonus scales faster (eg, exponentially) than the to-hit penalty, and from what I have seen I don't think it scales faster.

It is not "free damage", unless the enemy is very easy to hit anyway. You pay for it dearly.