Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Pink Eye]

Kit Walker quit being a weirdo and explain why you disagree.

 

[Pink Eye]

Is that not how it works?

 

[Shadenuat]

20 always a hit, but to get more damag u roll confirm.

1 always miss

 

[Pink Eye]

20 always a hit, but to get more damag u roll confirm.

1 always miss

Ok, I was ill informed. Thanks for clearing that up. I must have been thinking of critical hits.

 

[Trashos]

OK, then the Power Attack is worth it in cases where you only hit on 20s, and in cases where you hit no matter what. In the rest of the cases it is not worth it (given the numbers at play in the game), unless it synergizes very favorably with other abilities that I don't know about.

 

[Shadenuat]

It is worth it if enemy DR absorbs most of damage as well, which can happen with animal companions since their subsequent attacks can be so shit (1d4 clawz); against Elementals too due to flat " - " DR of obnoxious values.

Technically to make PA worth it, designer should put some zero AC, super high HP/DR enemies into game. (aka the shadenaut super rightwing school of rpg design: "context and good encounters fix everything")

 

[Pink Eye]

OK, then the Power Attack is worth it in cases where you only hit on 20s, and in cases where you hit no matter what. In the rest of the cases it is not worth it (given the numbers at play in the game), unless it synergizes very favorably with other abilities that I don't know about.

>In the rest of the cases it is not worth it
No. It is worth it. If you don't build around it then you are wasting its potential. If you just take it by itself with no means of supplementing it. Then it's not worth it. I showed you the screen shots of me one shotting encounters. Power Attack DOES make a difference.

 

[Trashos]

Pink Eye, unless I am misreading the pic, you have a +40 to hit chance against a 38 AC enemy. That's an "always hit" situation, which I already accounted for. If you are consistently in an "always hit" situation (I wouldn't know, I am level 10 currently and I don't really know what I am doing yet) in fights of interest, then yes, it is worth it.

 

[Trashos]

It is worth it if enemy DR absorbs most of damage as well, which can happen with animal companions since their subsequent attacks can be so shit (1d4 clawz); against Elementals too due to flat " - " DR of obnoxious values.

Technically to make PA worth it, designer should put some zero AC, super high HP/DR enemies into game. (aka the shadenaut super rightwing school of rpg design: "context and good encounters fix everything")

Got to think about that later. Thanks for bringing it up!

 

[Pink Eye]

Pink Eye, unless I am misreading the pic, you have a +40 to hit chance against a 38 AC enemy. That's an "always hit" situation, which I already accounted for. If you are consistently in an "always hit" situation (I wouldn't know, I am level 10 currently and I don't really know what I am doing yet) in fights of interest, then yes, it is worth it.

I suppose for the early game it'd hurt, not sure, been a while since I last played. However, you can just turn it off.

 

[polo]

Sup bros, how tf are you supposed to deal with the ENRAGED GREATER Owlbears, in the swamp witches hut? Im i supposed to come back at like level 8 or 9? Cause these guys are insane. I could cheese them with range but wheres the fun in that.

 

[Shadenuat]

oh u sweet summer child

 

[razvedchiki]

Sup bros, how tf are you supposed to deal with the ENRAGED GREATER Owlbears, in the swamp witches hut? Im i supposed to come back at like level 8 or 9? Cause these guys are insane. I could cheese them with range but wheres the fun in that.

well you get a +2 dueling sword if you kill them,but you can also come later for an artisan quest.
what i did is carpet them with web and buff my tanks with everything i had,blur/displacemnt/heroism etc.even then it took me around 30 reloads to get them all without having someone permadead.

 

[Pink Eye]

Sup bros, how tf are you supposed to deal with the ENRAGED GREATER Owlbears, in the swamp witches hut? Im i supposed to come back at like level 8 or 9? Cause these guys are insane. I could cheese them with range but wheres the fun in that.

well you get a +2 dueling sword if you kill them,but you can also come later for an artisan quest.
what i did is carpet them with web and buff my tanks with everything i had,blur/displacemnt/heroism etc.even then it took me around 30 reloads to get them all without having someone permadead.

>it took me around 30 reloads
What the fuck. I would have just left. Even on Unfair, if something takes more than 5 reloads, I'm going to leave.

 

[Delterius]

wait until they calm down

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Sup bros, how tf are you supposed to deal with the ENRAGED GREATER Owlbears, in the swamp witches hut? Im i supposed to come back at like level 8 or 9? Cause these guys are insane. I could cheese them with range but wheres the fun in that.

Shits hard even at Level 8. I think I did them in Level 7, takes me some retries tho. I will leave out MC because it varries between players but basically:

1. Use your cleric to partly summon stuffs near the entrance before combat begin. Don't put them too near the combat area as it will trigger combat. Leave at least 1 summon skeleton.

2. Have your arcane spellcaster prepares both Web and Grease.

3. Bring Ekun. Maybe Jubilost too. Conecetrate mostly on ranged DPS.

4. I think Valerie is mandatory if you play with companion simply for having high enough health. Or maybe you can optimize your MC/Mercenaries as a tank.

Start combat by putting Grease on the ledge downwards (without triggering the combat), put your tank just before the Grease. Then throw Web on middle of the Map (If you have casters you could put two Webs as well). Combat will triggers.

The one Owlbear near you should be your focus and killed as soon as possible. If the two Owlbears in the back are walking near midpoint of the map, cast Skeletons to delay their march.

Basically this. You probably needs lot of RNG because fuckers could instagib anyone close enough to them so it is important to have lot of summons (even if they get webbed) as sort of meatshield.

 

[razvedchiki]

i made ekun dual wielding shield basher,he has ac on par with the tanks and can dish out some dmg.

 

[ArchAngel]

i made ekun dual wielding shield basher,he has ac on par with the tanks and can dish out some dmg.

But why?

Spoiler

he does 2x better using a bow and both Valerie and Jaethal are better at tanking. Fuck even Amiri with defensive rage powers is better at tanking.

 

[Desiderius]

Question for peeps who played this for +1,5k hours: would a playthrough without a dedicated healer/buffer be very painful?

The game showers you with plenty of potions and healing scrolls. Later you get an infinite amount of Heal scrolls. No, the better question you should be asking,"Is the game doable WITHOUT a dedicated buffer, i.e a cleric/bard/wizard/druid/alchemist etc". The answer, it's going to be painful as all hell. You NEEED a dedicated buffer. Martial based characters live and die by the support of a buffer. A buffer can turn your puny martial character from a meh character, to a god.
For example: Legendary Props + Buffs = Big Dmg

Of course this was all on unfair. You probably can get away without a buffer on the lower difficulties. Doubt it though.

Unfair without a Bard or Freebooter. That's InEffect level difficulty right there. Well done.

I'm telling you man. Mystic Theurge is not a bad class.

The problem is that you have a big delay to reach certain important spell levels while getting questionable returns. Early on MT is very lackluster and needs really high level to start to shine, but by then not much of the game is left and for much of that time, any decently optimized wizard, sorcerer, cleric, druid, etc would have been substantially superior.

Spoiler: you have more companions than slots. You can have some ride the bench while they develop into late game monsters.

 

[Desiderius]

That's fine guys. I'm still going to take Power Attack, lol. Free damage is free damage. I can see Power Attack not being worth it, if you have a character that isn't able to dish out a lot of attacks per round. Which isn't a problem for my monks - see:

Even then, with haste and other buffs, a fighter should still be able to dish out at least 5 attacks per round. One of those hits is bound to hit, and when it does, Power Attack will do it's job.

The math is multivariate but you seem to be forgetting the option of just hitting with all your attacks and doing damage that way (add Pummeling Style to bypass DR and then you’re doing some real damage).

 

[razvedchiki]

i use the closer to tabletop mod that implements cover mechanics,having constantly to relocate to avoid the -2 to hit (or sometimes -4) is a pain in turn based.
(for ranged ekun)
trying to make amiri to tank is another big pain (for hard).

 

[Desiderius]

i made ekun dual wielding shield basher,he has ac on par with the tanks and can dish out some dmg.

But why?

Spoiler

he does 2x better using a bow and both Valerie and Jaethal are better at tanking. Fuck even Amiri with defensive rage powers is better at tanking.

If he tanks well enough that frees up a slot for Jub to make Okbo good. Not as bad as it sounds though you’re blowing his ranged feats.

 

[Pink Eye]

That's fine guys. I'm still going to take Power Attack, lol. Free damage is free damage. I can see Power Attack not being worth it, if you have a character that isn't able to dish out a lot of attacks per round. Which isn't a problem for my monks - see:

Even then, with haste and other buffs, a fighter should still be able to dish out at least 5 attacks per round. One of those hits is bound to hit, and when it does, Power Attack will do it's job.

The math is multivariate but you seem to be forgetting the option of just hitting with all your attacks and doing damage that way (add Pummeling Style to bypass DR and then you’re doing some real damage).

That monk was a Dragon Style build. I did try Pummeling Style, after seeing you post about it on Steam. I actually liked Pummeling Style more than Dragon Style.

 

[Desiderius]

My rule of thumb for Power Attack is - mostly for builds with 2-handers and on lvl 7-8+, when Outflank, Good Hope and Bard Songs come online.

Everything else is commentary. If you’re only hitting on a one you’ve got (a lot of) other problems.

 

[razvedchiki]

If he tanks well enough that frees up a slot for Jub to make Okbo good. Not as bad as it sounds though you’re blowing his ranged feats.

i dont use jubilost,i find his force bobms kind of cheat mode.