Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Zurat-Yarkuch]

Okay, so I just got the game when it was on sale last week with the Wildcards expansion.

When leveling companions is it best to stick to their base class and avoid multiclassing or is there a benifit to picking up levels in other classes.

Just started the game and got to the outpost so wondering how I should level up my companions. Playing as a good character.

 

[Haplo]

In your opinion, what would be the best base class for duelist? Sword saint?

Diluting the pure awesomeness that is Sword Saint beyond a tiny Monk dip for superior defenses should be considered a sin!

Halfling monk1 /SS 19 is best version?

No way! Reducing weapon size dice? Another sin for a damage dealer, particularly one who does not rely on sneak attacks.

Legendary Proportions all the way! Plus Lead Blades if/when available.

Ok but halfling is +3 to AC :D

And most of your damage comes for your spells anyways.. and halfling even gives you +1 attack for that.

You appear to have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Haplo]

If you *really* want to max out AC for some reason, then Halfling/Eldritch scion is the way to go. The latter for the wings.

Eldiritch Scion is hardly the only way to get Wings. All Aasimars can get them. Alchemists can get them. Draconic Sorcerers and Dragon Disciples get them.
With EA mod they are even available with spells.

Anyway, assuming an Aasimar, Cautious Fighter +3 AC + Draconic Bloodline +4 AC (at level 15! +2 before that; doesn't help VS Touch) is +7 AC, which is hardly better then ~9 Int AC on Sword Saint Cunning Duelist.

 

[Yosharian]

If you *really* want to max out AC for some reason, then Halfling/Eldritch scion is the way to go. The latter for the wings.

How to get Wings without Aasimar though? Draconic bloodline? I'm not seeing it listed on the bloodline's abilities.

(For Scion, obviously. I'm aware of other methods such as Feral Mutagen)

 

[Yosharian]

You appear to have no idea what you're talking about.

Is the damage loss from being small really that significant if your main goal for the character is to tank?

If you're using a monk weapon it's like 1 dmg less or something

If you're not using a monk weapon then yeah I guess it's more significant, but that sweet, sweet extra attack at full BAB...

 

[Yosharian]

I didn’t bring him. He destroyed the Eye at Abandoned Keep and just earned his Wings so we’ll see.

Executing him and taking the Eye for that sweet automatic Extend to all spells on my Sword Saint was so much more satisfying.

Wait what. How does that work

 

[Desiderius]

Draconic bloodline has them at level 15.

Empyreal Sorc as well.

 

[Desiderius]

You appear to have no idea what you're talking about.

Is the damage loss from being small really that significant if your main goal for the character is to tank?

If you're using a monk weapon it's like 1 dmg less or something

If you're not using a monk weapon then yeah I guess it's more significant, but that sweet, sweet extra attack at full BAB...

Tanking isn't enough for any character.

You don't understand Enlarging yet.

 

[Desiderius]

Cautious Fighter is 2 AC.

 

[Desiderius]

Okay, so I just got the game when it was on sale last week with the Wildcards expansion.

When leveling companions is it best to stick to their base class and avoid multiclassing or is there a benifit to picking up levels in other classes.

Just started the game and got to the outpost so wondering how I should level up my companions. Playing as a good character.

Safest to stick with autolevel first run through. You'll learn a lot by disagreeing with the choices. Will probably restart a couple times as you get a feel for things.

 

[Haplo]

Cautious Fighter is 2 AC.

... but halflings get base +1 size AC.

 

[Desiderius]

Cautious Fighter is 2 AC.

... but halflings get base +1 size AC.

Yeah, I am using at will Reduce on Linzi because most of her damage is from Sense/Agile and she needs the AC/to hit. And like Yos says she's mostly casting when it matters anyway.

 

[ArchAngel]

In your opinion, what would be the best base class for duelist? Sword saint?

Diluting the pure awesomeness that is Sword Saint beyond a tiny Monk dip for superior defenses should be considered a sin!

Halfling monk1 /SS 19 is best version?

No way! Reducing weapon size dice? Another sin for a damage dealer, particularly one who does not rely on sneak attacks.

Legendary Proportions all the way! Plus Lead Blades if/when available.

Ok but halfling is +3 to AC :D

And most of your damage comes for your spells anyways.. and halfling even gives you +1 attack for that.

You appear to have no idea what you're talking about.

Then explain it. I got no experience with SS. My only experience with Magus is Regongar.
So 3 ac from being a halfling and taking halfling only feat is less useful then getting 3-4 average damage per hit from being bigger (I count legendary in this)?

 

[Desiderius]

Then explain it. I got no experience with SS. My only experience with Magus is Regongar.
So 3 ac from being a halfling and taking halfling only feat is less useful then getting 3-4 average damage per hit from being bigger (I count legendary in this)?

There's an extra hyphen in your comment.

 

[Lambach]

Wait what. How does that work

Once you catch up to him in the Keep and ice the Defaced Sister, you can demand that he give you the Eye rather than destroy it. He refuses and turns hostile if you keep insisting. Not sure if you need to be Evil for this, I don't remember.

The Eye itself is then slotted into your belt and makes every spell you cast as if you were using Extend Spell Metamagic, automatically. You can also use it three times per day to cast True Sight on yourself, but you need to pass a Wisdom check or you suffer consequences.

The description of the Eye says you need to be Neutral Evil to use it, but my Lawful Evil SS used it just fine.

 

[Desiderius]

Then explain it. I got no experience with SS. My only experience with Magus is Regongar.
So 3 ac from being a halfling and taking halfling only feat is less useful then getting 3-4 average damage per hit from being bigger (I count legendary in this)?

There's an extra hyphen in your comment.

Hap’s the pro, I’ll let him handle it, but you should already know that 3-4 doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Pink Eye]

Then explain it. I got no experience with SS. My only experience with Magus is Regongar.
So 3 ac from being a halfling and taking halfling only feat is less useful then getting 3-4 average damage per hit from being bigger (I count legendary in this)?

There's an extra hyphen in your comment.

Hap’s the pro, I’ll let him handle it, but you should already know that 3-4 doesn’t make any sense.

Alright dad. Give me an english lesson. Why doesn't 3-4 make sense?

 

[Desiderius]

Alright dad. Give me an english lesson. Why doesn't 3-4 make sense?

I trust you to figure that one out on your own, son.

 

[Pink Eye]

Then explain it. I got no experience with SS. My only experience with Magus is Regongar.
So 3 ac from being a halfling and taking halfling only feat is less useful then getting 3-4 average damage per hit from being bigger (I count legendary in this)?

There's an extra hyphen in your comment.

Hap’s the pro, I’ll let him handle it, but you should already know that 3-4 doesn’t make any sense.

Alright dad. Give me an english lesson. Why doesn't 3-4 make sense?

I trust you to figure that one out on your own, son.

Welp. I'm stumped.... 3 - 4 is the same as 3 to 4, right?

 

[Efe]

obligatory shitpost

maybe 3 - 4 = -1 ?

 

[Desiderius]

Welp. I'm stumped.... 3 - 4 is the same as 3 to 4, right?

I’m saying the right number is closer to 34.

 

[Haplo]

Then explain it. I got no experience with SS. My only experience with Magus is Regongar.
So 3 ac from being a halfling and taking halfling only feat is less useful then getting 3-4 average damage per hit from being bigger (I count legendary in this)?

Well, do you really need extra AC as a Sword Saint?

If you go Str, use LP and Lead Blades for both, in the extreme case, you loose 2d8 damage (multiplied on crit).
With a more typical weapon, that's indeed d6 less.
Plus a halfling is 2 Str less, so that's another 1-2 damage.

If you go for Dex, you also loose +3 Str mod AB/Damage bonus from LP. Also you can't effectively two-hand your weapon then (unless rogue multiclass with ECB).

Its all multiplied on crit.
Worse, that tends to put one in a mindset to use Reduce instead - to improve AB rather then make it worse - and use a d4 weapon rather then a 3d6 - 6d8 weapon.

Also a Sword Saint can use Perfect Strike to maximize base weapon damage. Hardly worth it to spend AP for d6 damage. But when we get to 4d6 - 6d8 then it can be nice sometimes.

And then we multiply this with GVS and land at 192 base weapon damage, before crit.

But with a halfling that's clearly not worth it...

Its a small difference, but it adds up. And as a Sword Saint you're in a unique position to exploit this "small" difference.

 

[ArchAngel]

OK, I see your point. Although many of your AC buffs are short duration or only gained in last 10h of the game.

 

[Haplo]

Short duration - only Inspire Heroics +4 AC, Transformation 4 AC and Haste 1 AC.

Let's be generous and subtract 20. Guess what? You're still only ever getting hit on 20 AND have Mirror Image.

 

[Haplo]

Also with a slightly smaller weapon and no GVS, when you're willing to burn AP: