Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Any of those weapons come with agile stat or should I get the crafting mod for that?

Owlbear Dueling is +2 Agile which goes decently with SS Weapon Enhancement. Can always pick up a lvl of Swordlord for DEX to damage. Aldori Dueling Mastery is a nice spell saver through the midgame for DEX Dueling.

 

[Desiderius]

Linzi OP:

Frightening Tune + Acid Pit from MC:



Elemental Body on Tristian isn't very good, but he still got in the killing blow on Siroket (Frightening Tune was MVP):



Notice Blakemoor with Fiery Body.

 

[toro]

Maybe it's old news but ...

Dear Pathfinders!

The recent anniversary of Pathfinder: Kingmaker made us think more about the future of Owlcat Games as well. Together with our parent company, we decided to change the format of cooperation with MY.GAMES and go for an independent studio. Both parties have agreed to this mutually beneficial step, which will allow continuing to explore new business opportunities while maintaining focus on core competencies. The parent company remains our strategic partner and investor. We want to thank our colleagues at MY.GAMES for all these years we have spent on the path together.

As a newly independent studio, we have already moved to the new headquarters, where we are actively making ourselves a new home right now. The move was not easy for us — we needed to carefully pack and transfer the countless boxes with small assets, shaman tambourines, all the dialogues, the bestiary and all the miniatures from the personal desks. Amiri's sword alone required an individual van!
But we made it! Here is a small photo report, so you can see the process with your own eyes.

 

[ArchAngel]

He'll eventually hit diminishing returns vs using a ranged weapon due to lack of iteratives but if he's having fun with it it's not the worst thing he can do.

It is already bad because ES has much less spell slots than AT. Using offensive spells to sneak attack is more of a something you do sometimes instead of your main attack ability. Unless you can rest as much as you want but even then it becomes irritating to apply buffs often.

 

[Haplo]

Any of those weapons come with agile stat or should I get the crafting mod for that?

Well, if you still insist on the Dex route, IMO the best option is to use Slashing / Fencing Grace and not worry about Agile enchantments (or weapon finessability for that matter). As a SS you get one of the prerequisites for free (W. Focus) and as Dex build you want the other anyway (W. Finesse).

But if you insist on saving that feat at the cost of using worse weapons, dueling swords would be your pick, like Desiderius advised. You get a +2 Agile reasonably early and the top one is Agile also - and can be gotten very early if you're willing to meta-game.

 

[Desiderius]

He'll eventually hit diminishing returns vs using a ranged weapon due to lack of iteratives but if he's having fun with it it's not the worst thing he can do.

It is already bad because ES has much less spell slots than AT. Using offensive spells to sneak attack is more of a something you do sometimes instead of your main attack ability. Unless you can rest as much as you want but even then it becomes irritating to apply buffs often.

Obv.

The kid's going to do what he's going to do.

He's already finished Unfair with his fists and no Bard.

 

[Pink Eye]

He'll eventually hit diminishing returns vs using a ranged weapon due to lack of iteratives but if he's having fun with it it's not the worst thing he can do.

It is already bad because ES has much less spell slots than AT. Using offensive spells to sneak attack is more of a something you do sometimes instead of your main attack ability. Unless you can rest as much as you want but even then it becomes irritating to apply buffs often.

Obv.

The kid's going to do what he's going to do.

He's already finished Unfair with his fists and no Bard.

Going to be honest though. It was hard lol. But I enjoyed it.

 

[Desiderius]

Magus enchant really does not matter with magic craft mod

Gamebreaking mod is gamebreaking. That's nice. I play unmodded.

Also kinda a big deal to go first late game, especially since SS is leaps and bounds ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not the best person to talk to since I'm into staying power over big high level arcane, so I don't EK much. Also boring. Haplo's covered it.

 

[Ramnozack]

Magus enchant really does not matter with magic craft mod

Gamebreaking mod is gamebreaking. That's nice. I play unmodded.

Also kinda a big deal to go first late game, especially since SS is leaps and bounds ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not the best person to talk to since I'm into staying power over big high level arcane, so I don't EK much. Also boring. Haplo's covered it.

'gamebreaking' Its a mod that implements basic PnP crafting, how game breaking...

 

[Desiderius]

Magus enchant really does not matter with magic craft mod

Gamebreaking mod is gamebreaking. That's nice. I play unmodded.

Also kinda a big deal to go first late game, especially since SS is leaps and bounds ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not the best person to talk to since I'm into staying power over big high level arcane, so I don't EK much. Also boring. Haplo's covered it.

'gamebreaking' Its a mod that implements basic PnP crafting, how game breaking...

If it obviates abilities that distinguish classes without a second thought as to cost, then yes, it is exactly gamebreaking.

 

[Ramnozack]

Magus enchant really does not matter with magic craft mod

Gamebreaking mod is gamebreaking. That's nice. I play unmodded.

Also kinda a big deal to go first late game, especially since SS is leaps and bounds ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not the best person to talk to since I'm into staying power over big high level arcane, so I don't EK much. Also boring. Haplo's covered it.

'gamebreaking' Its a mod that implements basic PnP crafting, how game breaking...

If it obviates abilities that distinguish classes without a second thought as to cost, then yes, it is exactly gamebreaking.

Actually it does have cost. Gold cost, time cost, feat cost...just like PnP. And no, it really isn't 'gamebreaking', you can already get insanely powerful weapons at a low level in base game via the artisans, and the game literally throws hundreds of thousands of gold coins at you along with heaps of powerful magic items. I struggle to wonder how basic PNP crafting somehow 'breaks the game'.

 

[Desiderius]

Actually it does have cost. Gold cost, time cost, feat cost...just like PnP. And no, it really isn't 'gamebreaking', you can already get insanely powerful weapons at a low level in base game via the artisans, and the game literally throws hundreds of thousands of gold coins at you along with heaps of powerful magic items. I struggle to wonder how basic PNP crafting somehow 'breaks the game'.

You are struggling. Glad we could reach an agreement.

 

[Ramnozack]

Actually it does have cost. Gold cost, time cost, feat cost...just like PnP. And no, it really isn't 'gamebreaking', you can already get insanely powerful weapons at a low level in base game via the artisans, and the game literally throws hundreds of thousands of gold coins at you along with heaps of powerful magic items. I struggle to wonder how basic PNP crafting somehow 'breaks the game'.

You are struggling. Glad we could reach an agreement.

Struggling with what? Seems like you can't come to terms with the fact magus isn't as good as you may have thought, compared to the EK that is, and are seeking an out to our conversation.

 

[Ramnozack]

Cause EK probably can't do half melee damage an SS can - particularly when spending AP.

Also EK can't easily tank early on and has worse progression.

An SS always has great AC and the right tools for the job - sufficient weapon enchantment to surpass any DR, Spellstrike to effectively damage enemies with DR that cannot be beaten - like elementals, Ghost touch VS ghosts, Brilliant Energy vs high armor (though its least useful).

What makes you say EK cant do as much damage as a SS? Don't have much experience with SS, but from what I've seen they shouldn't be to much better than what the EK can do.

EK ends up with 4 attacks and 16 BAB if built right (higher than SS I believe? Or does SS have full BAB progression?), level 7-9 spells which is a big deal in and of itself, access to spells Magus can't normally get, namely sense vitals amongst others (unless you use spell blending with the EA mod I suppose, still can only go up to level 6 though), can actually make use of arcane strike feat, etc.

My EK build also has decent AC, maybe not as good as a sword saint, but pretty good nonetheless thanks to a monk dip and protectors robes and with all the usual arcane defensive spells is pretty tanky.

I'm curious as to what you think of the EK class as a whole.

EK class is cool for people who want to focus on casting, with melee as support. SS the opposite. Also a Sword Saint has a much nicer start and better progression. An EK doesn't get much apart from spells till level 15-16 (provided that he does not multiclass further).

Why more damage?
1. Lethal Focus to add Int mod to damage: +9 damage, multiplied on crits (vs flat footed, but with my playstyle all enemies who can be feared are perma flat-footed)
2. Bane Blade for +2d6 damage
3. Alignment based damage: +2d6/+4d6
4. Elemental damage, depending on how much you use alignment bonuses (how much budget is left), generally +1d6 to +3d6.
5. Greater Weapon Specialization for another +2 damage, if you feel like it.
6. Then you have Critical Focus to make sure your crit threats actually land (Int mod added to Crit Confirmation).

Of course if you use Craft Items to create even more OP weapons then the game offers, this gap is less. But I don't think it can be fully closed.

These are practically permanent bonuses over EK. You Enchant weapons before combat (end game it lasts 19 minutes and can be reapplied multiple times when needed) and still use Arcane Strike normally, unless you NEED special Accuracy boosts (like Arcane Accuracy adding Int to AB). Perfect Strike does not comsume Swift Actions.

Number of attacks is usually the same - with Spellstrike you get the "free" attack with Spell Combat one-handed, but I like Transformation with 20 BAB two-handed even more.

Then when you need to nova, you trigger Perfect Strike and/or Perfect Critical (in fact I use Perfect Critical most of the time and mosty enable Perfect Strike for singular Greater Vital Strike Attacks) and maximize weapon damage plus increase the crit multiplier for at least 30% more damage - way more with the like of GVS.

Then you get nice bonuses:
1. Int added to Initiative. Eventually you always roll 20 on Initiative rolls.
2. Int added to number of attacks of Opportunity.
3. Obviously Int added to AC
4. Easily able to pierce Silver, Cold Iron, Adamantine DRs when they first appear in game. Casually butchers ghosts. Spellstrike efficiently solves early Elemental issues. Brilliant Energy destroys enemy AC in Chapters 4 and 5.

For your first 6 points, only 1, 5, and 6 actually applies. EK can get those same weapon enchantments via craft magic arms and armor. GWS isn't that big of a deal, its a +2 damage bonus at a pretty late level for EK and Magus.

Magus can't use arcane strike and spell combat at the same time, if he does two handed attacks (or uses any other swift action) he misses out on an extra attack, if he uses spell combat he loses the 1.5 str damage bonus, arcane strike damage bonus, and is stuck using a one handed melee weapon. EK also has access to transformation, but doesn't need to use it to get 4 attacks while still two-handing thanks to his higher BAB. If you are looking at this in a vacuum, magus doesn't have access to legendary proportions while an EK does, which is huge in and of itself.

For your next list, yes SS will have better AC, AoO, and Init (resistances don't matter as the EK can also easily defeat those via spells or with craft magic arms enchantments) but EK can have respectable numbers on all of those stats while still retaining access to 7-9 spells.

 

[Haplo]

For your first 6 points, only 1, 5, and 6 actually applies. EK can get those same weapon enchantments via craft magic arms and armor.

Your assessment doesn't seem fully accurate. With the mod you can add alignment damage to your weapon, but can't do so on the fly, depending on alignment of enemies you're facing. Same goes for elemental damage based on enemy weaknesses and resistances.
Most importantly, I don't think you can enchant "Bane All" property?

Magus can't use arcane strike and spell combat at the same time, if he does two handed attacks (or uses any other swift action) he misses out on an extra attack, if he uses spell combat he loses the 1.5 str damage bonus, arcane strike damage bonus, and is stuck using a one handed melee weapon. EK also has access to transformation, but doesn't need to use it to get 4 attacks while still two-handing thanks to his higher BAB. If you are looking at this in a vacuum, magus doesn't have access to legendary proportions while an EK does, which is huge in and of itself.

You are mistaken, you certainly can use Spell Strike and Spell Combat, Spell Combat is not a Swift Action.
Given EK reliance on spells, he's unlikely to want to use Transformation. An SS will gain an extra two-handed attack and 4 BAB over EK with it.
And herein lies one of the biggest differences. When facing a difficult to hit enemy, the best EK can do is True Strike for 1 attack. Besides having 4 AB more with Transformation, SS can at least add his Int mod to AB for a full round for 1 AP (and add it twice to crit confirmation rolls), with possible access to even better accuracy boosters (for example resolve attacks as Touch).

On the upside, EK does have mighty level 7-9 spells, that much is true.

 

[Pink Eye]

Jesus fuck! These elementals are brutal. I managed to force a choke point, and inadvertently caused them to bug out. However, even so, it doesn't make matters easier due to the fact that they are immune to sneak and critical damage. Which just nullifies my Eldritch Scoundrel's damage. So far I've made it to Floor 24 by the way.

 

[Pink Eye]

lol. Last group, then I'm done with this floor.

 

[Ramnozack]

For your first 6 points, only 1, 5, and 6 actually applies. EK can get those same weapon enchantments via craft magic arms and armor.

Your assessment doesn't seem fully accurate. With the mod you can add alignment damage to your weapon, but can't do so on the fly, depending on alignment of enemies you're facing. Same goes for elemental damage based on enemy weaknesses and resistances.
Most importantly, I don't think you can enchant "Bane All" property?

Magus can't use arcane strike and spell combat at the same time, if he does two handed attacks (or uses any other swift action) he misses out on an extra attack, if he uses spell combat he loses the 1.5 str damage bonus, arcane strike damage bonus, and is stuck using a one handed melee weapon. EK also has access to transformation, but doesn't need to use it to get 4 attacks while still two-handing thanks to his higher BAB. If you are looking at this in a vacuum, magus doesn't have access to legendary proportions while an EK does, which is huge in and of itself.

You are mistaken, you certainly can use Spell Strike and Spell Combat, Spell Combat is not a Swift Action.
Given EK reliance on spells, he's unlikely to want to use Transformation. An SS will gain an extra two-handed attack and 4 BAB over EK with it.
And herein lies one of the biggest differences. When facing a difficult to hit enemy, the best EK can do is True Strike for 1 attack. Besides having 4 AB more with Transformation, SS can at least add his Int mod to AB for a full round for 1 AP (and add it twice to crit confirmation rolls), with possible access to even better accuracy boosters (for example resolve attacks as Touch).

On the upside, EK does have mighty level 7-9 spells, that much is true.

Magus can enchant "bane all" as in the inquisitor ability? That doesn't seem right, are you sure its not a specific bane? Seems kinda OP otherwise.

True, you cant change enchantments on the fly, but to do so with a magus, you will be wasting a per-rest resource that you could be using for other things such as dimension strike, and things like holy+axiomatic are effective against the majority of enemies in the game and don't really need to be swapped out on the fly. Also, magus enchantments only stack up to +5 enhancement bonus including enchantments already on the weapon if I recall correctly, which means if you have a +5 weapon, you couldn't make use of magus weapon enchanting, am I wrong there?

My mistake, thought you couldn't use a swift action during a full round action.

Don't agree with your assessment that EK is reliant on spells, my EK functions perfectly fine using no spells what-so-ever during the usual trash mob fights, throw on long lasting buffs like enlarge/LP, shield, blur, heroism, etc and he becomes untouchable for those standard engagements while dealing large amounts of damage.

Not sure I understand what you're saying when you say SS gains an extra attack and 4 BAB using transformation over EK. Would the EK using transformation not gain the same BAB and attacks? Its not like SS can use Spell combat while transformation is up so he cant get an extra attack that way, or is it possible to use wands while transformation is up?

It's true, magus does have the ability to spike his accuracy for short periods of time, which is what I always said was the main benefit of Magus over EK. But is it worth 7-9 spells? I don't think so, personally.

 

[ArchAngel]

Any of those weapons come with agile stat or should I get the crafting mod for that?

Well, if you still insist on the Dex route, IMO the best option is to use Slashing / Fencing Grace and not worry about Agile enchantments (or weapon finessability for that matter). As a SS you get one of the prerequisites for free (W. Focus) and as Dex build you want the other anyway (W. Finesse).

But if you insist on saving that feat at the cost of using worse weapons, dueling swords would be your pick, like Desiderius advised. You get a +2 Agile reasonably early and the top one is Agile also - and can be gotten very early if you're willing to meta-game.

Why? I just read both these feats, neither lets you use weapon finesse with standard weapons but only works as agile enchant for one specific weapon.

 

[Pink Eye]

God. I love power attack so much.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

I thinking about second walk through of PKM, this time with turn based combat mod. Is there any good mods that compatible with this mod? Besides those that mentioned on Nexus page, ofc.

 

[Haplo]

Any of those weapons come with agile stat or should I get the crafting mod for that?

Well, if you still insist on the Dex route, IMO the best option is to use Slashing / Fencing Grace and not worry about Agile enchantments (or weapon finessability for that matter). As a SS you get one of the prerequisites for free (W. Focus) and as Dex build you want the other anyway (W. Finesse).

But if you insist on saving that feat at the cost of using worse weapons, dueling swords would be your pick, like Desiderius advised. You get a +2 Agile reasonably early and the top one is Agile also - and can be gotten very early if you're willing to meta-game.

Why? I just read both these feats, neither lets you use weapon finesse with standard weapons but only works as agile enchant for one specific weapon.

But they do. You can even finesse bastard swords with Slashing Grace. Need a free offhand, though.

 

[Trashos]

Finished with Tristian's case.

Spoiler

Well, Yoshimo Tristian is a traitor, and he is a cuck. I still forgave him, because this is my first playthrough and I don't want to have to deal with it without my most competent priest. In a way, his competence allowed him to live for now, which I can live with. In future playthroughs, once I have learnt to play without him, he will get what is his.

That said, the whole thing is not badly done. Quite a good character and story, if too much reminiscent of Yoshimo. Loved Tristian's crazy laughter(?) when he disappeared with the eye. Great work by the voice actor there.

 

[Shadenuat]

Finished with Tristian's case.

Spoiler

Well, Yoshimo Tristian is a traitor, and he is a cuck. I still forgave him, because this is my first playthrough and I don't want to have to deal with it without my most competent priest. In a way, his competence allowed him to live for now, which I can live with. In future playthroughs, once I have learnt to play without him, he will get what is his.

That said, the whole thing is not badly done. Quite a good character and story, if too much reminiscent of Yoshimo. Loved Tristian's crazy laughter(?) when he disappeared with the eye. Great work by the voice actor there.

someone said, either daidre or tumblsteamgirl, that

Spoiler

in pnp module, to destroy eye of abbaddon, one needs something something from fallen deva

thus tristian in computer game.

 

[Daidre]

Finished with Tristian's case.

Spoiler

Well, Yoshimo Tristian is a traitor, and he is a cuck. I still forgave him, because this is my first playthrough and I don't want to have to deal with it without my most competent priest. In a way, his competence allowed him to live for now, which I can live with. In future playthroughs, once I have learnt to play without him, he will get what is his.

That said, the whole thing is not badly done. Quite a good character and story, if too much reminiscent of Yoshimo. Loved Tristian's crazy laughter(?) when he disappeared with the eye. Great work by the voice actor there.

Best thing about it:

Spoiler

That after meeting tricky conditions he won't disappear with an eye.