Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Linzi thinks he's a traitor. That doesn't make him one.

I am not listening to Linzi. Tristian is a traitor, if I ever saw one. Backstabbed me to serve his own personal interests. Maybe he can be better if he gets a second chance, but I am not role-playing a teacher. He crossed the line.

If your standard for the Good isn't the Almighty God I can't help you. If it is then the former Saul of Tarsus would like to have a word with you.

It wasn't his interests he was serving. A stern judge need be a close reader, as one can see from my mistake with Ramno.

 

[panda]

Tristian is a traitor, if I ever saw one. Backstabbed me to serve his own personal interests.

Tristian is the same traitor to you as e.g. you are to Staglord.
He was sent to ruin your kingdom just as you were sent to ruin Staglord's.
Method is dirty, for that i agree.

 

[Shadenuat]

Tristian was magically brainwashed.

 

[Ramnozack]

Ok, yeah, your just confused at this point. I'll leave you to it bud before we get sent to retardo land

You can attempt to save face by pretending that I'm retarded or whatever, but the only one you're fooling is yourself, and you're no fool. You deserve better.

You are making no sense. That is why I'm leaving, you seem desperate to drop the fact your tried to CNN me and then right after that you move onto some weird argument about how dimension strike isn't weapon enchanting or some stupid shit that no one even brought up and isn't relevant to the conversation.

You brought it up.

You said Dimension Strike mattered but Weapon Enchanting didn't since your mod makes it superfluous.

I didn't. I said, quite simply, that Magus weapon enchanting didn't matter, because with PNP crafting you can get the same effects but permanent and without having to use a per-rest resource on it (not to mention Magus enchanting in this game is broken and OP and non-PNP compliant). I also said, that alongside Spell combat/spell strike, the only important thing SS has over EK is the dimension strike type accuracy enhancing abilities that use Arcane pool. I don't know why you seem to not understand this argument as I believe I have laid it all out quite clearly.

Of course I understand it - it’s the exact argument we’re contesting and/or proves your mod is game breaking.

(1) The other abilities matter (a lot). The “about” that you’re worried about is immaterial. I don’t even use the accuracy abilities - don’t need them

(2) Either there is a significant cost/limitation associated with crafting, in which case Enchanting (a major mechanic across several classes - Pal gets min/lvl for free) is not superfluous after all, or your mod is in fact gamebreaking. You can’t have it both ways.

SS is itself gamebreaking, as proven by the best player here, Haplo. If you don’t understand why maybe give it a whirl.

See I don't think you do, as you keep bringing up irrelevant topics.

(1) What is this 'about' you keep bringing up? And cool, you dont use some of the best abilities available to a magus, just proves my point you lack understanding of the Pathfinder system.

(2) Again, basic crafting is not 'gamebreaking' you are, again, showing your lack of knowledge of the Pathfinder system. Magus gets his enchants for free and doesn't have to spend time, gold, and feats in order to enchant his weapon, he can do it on the fly. That is useful early game, but as time progresses it becomes much less relevant, especially since this game literally throws hundreds of thousands of coins and months of free time at you. Your problem with basic PNP crafting is in actuality a criticism of the design of this particular game and the magus class, not with crafting itself, which has long since predated both the magus and any other class with weapon enchanting abilities in PNP D&D/Pathfinder.

 

[ArchAngel]

Tristian was magically brainwashed.

More like tortured to comply.

 

[Desiderius]

See I don't think you do, as you keep bringing up irrelevant topics.

(1) What is this 'about' you keep bringing up? And cool, you dont use some of the best abilities available to a magus, just proves my point you lack understanding of the Pathfinder system.

(2) Again, basic crafting is not 'gamebreaking' you are, again, showing your lack of knowledge of the Pathfinder system. Magus gets his enchants for free and doesn't have to spend time, gold, and feats in order to enchant his weapon, he can do it on the fly. That is useful early game, but as time progresses it becomes much less relevant, especially since this game literally throws hundreds of thousands of coins and months of free time at you. Your problem with basic PNP crafting is in actuality a criticism of the design of this particular game and the magus class, not with crafting itself, which has long since predated both the magus and any other class with weapon enchanting abilities in PNP D&D/Pathfinder.

You said that Spellstrike is "about" the only thing that mattered. I quoted you as saying Spellstrike was the only thing that mattered and you shit your pants. Evidently relevant to you.

We all lack understanding of the Pathfinder System. That's what makes it great. Your lack in this area far surpasses mine.

So this all boils down to more PnP butthurt. I feel for you man, truly. But you're missing a great game in it's own right.

I'll grant that your point (2) has some validity, but it does not follow that weapon enchanting is superfluous prior to endgame.

 

[Desiderius]

Don't have much experience with SS

Let us know when this changes.

 

[Ramnozack]

See I don't think you do, as you keep bringing up irrelevant topics.

(1) What is this 'about' you keep bringing up? And cool, you dont use some of the best abilities available to a magus, just proves my point you lack understanding of the Pathfinder system.

(2) Again, basic crafting is not 'gamebreaking' you are, again, showing your lack of knowledge of the Pathfinder system. Magus gets his enchants for free and doesn't have to spend time, gold, and feats in order to enchant his weapon, he can do it on the fly. That is useful early game, but as time progresses it becomes much less relevant, especially since this game literally throws hundreds of thousands of coins and months of free time at you. Your problem with basic PNP crafting is in actuality a criticism of the design of this particular game and the magus class, not with crafting itself, which has long since predated both the magus and any other class with weapon enchanting abilities in PNP D&D/Pathfinder.

You said that Spellstrike is "about" the only thing that mattered. I quoted you as saying Spellstrike was the only thing that mattered and you shit your pants. Evidently relevant to you.

We all lack understanding of the Pathfinder System. That's what makes it great. You lack in this area far surpasses mine.

So this all boils down to more PnP butthurt. I feel for you man, truly. But you're missing a great game in it's own right.

I'll grant that your point (2) has some validity, but it does not follow that weapon enchanting is superfluous prior to endgame.

1. You intentionally misquoted me because you were butthurt and you fucked up.

2. Don't project your stupidity onto me.

3. I'm not the one butthurt about basic PNP mechanics in a game based on a PNP game. And I'm not missing anything I'm playing Kingmaker as we speak.

4. Thanks for the compliment bud, but wrong again on the second part. Enchanting is not relegated to 'endgame', its gated entirely by your knowledge arcana. The DC for crafting/enchanting an item increases by five for every requirement you don't meet and for every level below the required caster level for the specified enchantment. So if you invest more into your knowledge arcana skill feat wise, you can create more powerful items earlier in the game. So crafting powerful items is by no means restricted to the late game, it's quite feasible to craft decent items by early-mid game.
Magus enchanting is fine, it is just generic weapon enchantments after all, but the reason I say it is superfluous is because, again, you can get the same effects from craft magic arms and armor permanently without using a per-rest resource that can be used on other abilities, of course this requires a feat, gold, and time cost (and it can get quite expensive to create top-tier items for everyone in your party, to expensive in-fact if you want to buy BP or any of the powerful unique items from Pitax) that the magus does not have to pay.

 

[panda]

How much will it cost to enchant Serpent Prince from +3 to +5?
Or Deadly Grace(Rapier +1, Agile, Keen) to let's say +3?

 

[Ramnozack]

How much will it cost to enchant Serpent Prince from +3 to +5?
Or Deadly Grace(Rapier +1, Agile, Keen) to let's say +3?

For Serpent Prince 10000 for vanilla prices or 20000 for tabletop prices. Price varies depending on the weapons existing enhancement bonus

 

[panda]

Interesting. For mere 20k i can make it almost as good as the best melee weapons in game(Vanquisher, Bane of the Living, Blinding Light). Not sure what to think.
On one hand i understand that special merc is needed in addition to 20k, so it is not that simple. On another i now understand 'gamebreaking' point.

 

[Ramnozack]

Interesting. For mere 20k i can make it almost as good as the best melee weapons in game(Vanquisher, Bane of the Living, Blinding Light). Not sure what to think.
On one hand i understand that special merc is needed in addition to 20k, so it is not that simple. On another i now understand 'gamebreaking' point.

Meh, it costs 78% of the cost of the weapon itself (around 160% for tabletop prices) and requires a caster around level 14 to make with the prereq feats. You should have access to powerful weapons before this point.

 

[Trashos]

Tristian is a traitor, if I ever saw one. Backstabbed me to serve his own personal interests.

Tristian is the same traitor to you as e.g. you are to Staglord.
He was sent to ruin your kingdom just as you were sent to ruin Staglord's.
Method is dirty, for that i agree.

The method is what makes all the difference. I never pretended to be Stag Lord's friend. I can honor my enemies. Backstabbers and hypocrites like Tristian, no.

When the Persians tried to invade Greece, they were blocked by Leonidas' men at Thermopylae. Thermopylae was a narrow place, and Persian greater numbers didn't play much of a role there. Until Ephialtes, a local traitor, showed the Persians a way to bypass the Thermopylae pass and outflank the Greeks, in exchange for riches. That's how the Persians took the upper hand and won the battle.

Who do you think the Greeks hate, the Persians or Ephialtes? Ephialtes, of course. The Persians were a respected enemy. Ephialtes was a traitor.

 

[ArchAngel]

Interesting. For mere 20k i can make it almost as good as the best melee weapons in game(Vanquisher, Bane of the Living, Blinding Light). Not sure what to think.
On one hand i understand that special merc is needed in addition to 20k, so it is not that simple. On another i now understand 'gamebreaking' point.

It is not really gamebreaking since martial classes depend on weapons to be useful. All you are doing it letting power of martial classes keep up with power of casters.

 

[Haplo]

No, there already exist powerful items, possibly too strong.
What you're doing is equalizing access/properties and making core itemization of little consequence.

 

[ga♥]

Do I suck hard or it seems to me Varnhold's lot is harder than the main campaign hmmm?

 

[Trashos]

If your standard for the Good isn't the Almighty God I can't help you. If it is then the former Saul of Tarsus would like to have a word with you.

It wasn't his interests he was serving. A stern judge need be a close reader, as one can see from my mistake with Ramno.

Judas was never forgiven.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Judas was never forgiven.

...by himself.

He killed himself, after all. Judas just needed a good shrink.

 

[Pink Eye]

Do I suck hard or it seems to me Varnhold's lot is harder than the main campaign hmmm?

Hmm I agree. The Varnhold's Lot had by far the best dungeon design. It took me weeks to beat it on Unfair. My two favorite parts is the first map, and the last dungeon.

 

[Pink Eye]

Interesting. For mere 20k i can make it almost as good as the best melee weapons in game(Vanquisher, Bane of the Living, Blinding Light). Not sure what to think.
On one hand i understand that special merc is needed in addition to 20k, so it is not that simple. On another i now understand 'gamebreaking' point.

It is not really gamebreaking since martial classes depend on weapons to be useful. All you are doing it letting power of martial classes keep up with power of casters.

And this is the reason as to why I play monks in these types of games. Fists don't need weapons to be good.

 

[Desiderius]

Do I suck hard or it seems to me Varnhold's lot is harder than the main campaign hmmm?

Same way I felt first time I played it. I improved more in those two hours than any other since I started playing.

 

[Desiderius]

Interesting. For mere 20k i can make it almost as good as the best melee weapons in game(Vanquisher, Bane of the Living, Blinding Light). Not sure what to think.
On one hand i understand that special merc is needed in addition to 20k, so it is not that simple. On another i now understand 'gamebreaking' point.

It is not really gamebreaking since martial classes depend on weapons to be useful. All you are doing it letting power of martial classes keep up with power of casters.

Martial classes don’t need the help in this game. One of the things that makes it great.

 

[Pink Eye]

Interesting. For mere 20k i can make it almost as good as the best melee weapons in game(Vanquisher, Bane of the Living, Blinding Light). Not sure what to think.
On one hand i understand that special merc is needed in addition to 20k, so it is not that simple. On another i now understand 'gamebreaking' point.

Meh, it costs 78% of the cost of the weapon itself (around 160% for tabletop prices) and requires a caster around level 14 to make with the prereq feats. You should have access to powerful weapons before this point.

Hmm. In the main game you can accumulate so much gold it's simply ridiculous. 20k might not seem a lot to you, but trust me, you can easily go over 2 million gold in the game. So, by dropping a mere 20k gold, you can easily get a powerful weapon. It does sound game breaking.

 

[Shadenuat]

Do I suck hard or it seems to me Varnhold's lot is harder than the main campaign hmmm?

It is. And encounter design is finally closer to harder parts of IE games.

 

[Desiderius]

See I don't think you do, as you keep bringing up irrelevant topics.

(1) What is this 'about' you keep bringing up? And cool, you dont use some of the best abilities available to a magus, just proves my point you lack understanding of the Pathfinder system.

(2) Again, basic crafting is not 'gamebreaking' you are, again, showing your lack of knowledge of the Pathfinder system. Magus gets his enchants for free and doesn't have to spend time, gold, and feats in order to enchant his weapon, he can do it on the fly. That is useful early game, but as time progresses it becomes much less relevant, especially since this game literally throws hundreds of thousands of coins and months of free time at you. Your problem with basic PNP crafting is in actuality a criticism of the design of this particular game and the magus class, not with crafting itself, which has long since predated both the magus and any other class with weapon enchanting abilities in PNP D&D/Pathfinder.

You said that Spellstrike is "about" the only thing that mattered. I quoted you as saying Spellstrike was the only thing that mattered and you shit your pants. Evidently relevant to you.

We all lack understanding of the Pathfinder System. That's what makes it great. You lack in this area far surpasses mine.

So this all boils down to more PnP butthurt. I feel for you man, truly. But you're missing a great game in it's own right.

I'll grant that your point (2) has some validity, but it does not follow that weapon enchanting is superfluous prior to endgame.

1. You intentionally misquoted me because you were butthurt and you fucked up.

2. Don't project your stupidity onto me.

3. I'm not the one butthurt about basic PNP mechanics in a game based on a PNP game. And I'm not missing anything I'm playing Kingmaker as we speak.

4. Thanks for the compliment bud, but wrong again on the second part. Enchanting is not relegated to 'endgame', its gated entirely by your knowledge arcana. The DC for crafting/enchanting an item increases by five for every requirement you don't meet and for every level below the required caster level for the specified enchantment. So if you invest more into your knowledge arcana skill feat wise, you can create more powerful items earlier in the game. So crafting powerful items is by no means restricted to the late game, it's quite feasible to craft decent items by early-mid game.
Magus enchanting is fine, it is just generic weapon enchantments after all, but the reason I say it is superfluous is because, again, you can get the same effects from craft magic arms and armor permanently without using a per-rest resource that can be used on other abilities, of course this requires a feat, gold, and time cost (and it can get quite expensive to create top-tier items for everyone in your party, to expensive in-fact if you want to buy BP or any of the powerful unique items from Pitax) that the magus does not have to pay.

Jesus, this level of mendacity and stupidity hurts my brain.

Ignore.