Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[ga♥]

I am playing Varnhold's lot outside the main campagin (It should pop up inside the main campagin right?). Does this mean I won't be able to import choices inside my main?

 

[panda]

The method is what makes all the difference. I never pretended to be Stag Lord's friend. I can honor my enemies. Backstabbers and hypocrites like Tristian, no.

When the Persians tried to invade Greece, they were blocked by Leonidas' men at Thermopylae. Thermopylae was a narrow place, and Persian greater numbers didn't play much of a role there. Until Ephialtes, a local traitor, showed the Persians a way to bypass the Thermopylae pass and outflank the Greeks, in exchange for riches.

That's a strange point. Tristian would be "persian" spy in your analogy(not 'a local') sent for terrain investigation and diversions waaay before the battle(or war even) started.
Whether such deployed agent will be remembered as a lowly traitor or as a hero who saved thousands of lives depends on a conflict's outcome.
History is written by the victors after all.

 

[Yosharian]

No, there already exist powerful items, possibly too strong.
What you're doing is equalizing access/properties and making core itemization of little consequence.

Yes, cos Kingmaker's items were so balanced before this mod came along =)

 

[Pink Eye]

No, there already exist powerful items, possibly too strong.
What you're doing is equalizing access/properties and making core itemization of little consequence.

Yes, cos Kingmaker's items were so balanced before this mod came along =)

That's his point though. Late game already suffers from serious stat bloat. Mid game too, if you know what you're doing.

 

[Yosharian]

No, there already exist powerful items, possibly too strong.
What you're doing is equalizing access/properties and making core itemization of little consequence.

Yes, cos Kingmaker's items were so balanced before this mod came along =)

That's his point though. Late game already suffers from serious stat bloat. Mid game too, if you know what you're doing.

Sure, but crafting items is fun! And doesn't exactly break the game. I can add 1d6 cold damage to Perfection, oh noooo game is broken!

 

[Pink Eye]

It's easy to get +8 to mental stats, if you know where and what to look for.

 

[panda]

...and requires a caster around level 14 to make with the prereq feats. You should have access to powerful weapons before this point.

The DC for crafting/enchanting an item increases by five for every requirement you don't meet and for every level below the required caster level for the specified enchantment. So if you invest more into your knowledge arcana skill feat wise, you can create more powerful items earlier in the game.

Idk, I think my character was lvl 11 when i got Serpent Prince between acts 2/3 in current playthrough. And i just made lvl 11 merc with 43 in knowledge arcana.
So, it is +5 weapon with increased crit multiplier in act 3?

Sure, but crafting items is fun! And doesn't exactly break the game.

Uhm, sure...

 

[Pink Eye]

No, there already exist powerful items, possibly too strong.
What you're doing is equalizing access/properties and making core itemization of little consequence.

Yes, cos Kingmaker's items were so balanced before this mod came along =)

That's his point though. Late game already suffers from serious stat bloat. Mid game too, if you know what you're doing.

Sure, but crafting items is fun! And doesn't exactly break the game. I can add 1d6 cold damage to Perfection, oh noooo game is broken!

>And doesn't exactly break the game
It does. I don't want to repeat what Haplo said. The point that I was making is this, the game throws so much stuff at you. It's easy to get over powered. Crafting just further trivializes the content. By allowing you easier access to items. Even on Unfair the game becomes mind numbingly easy, once you reach a certain point. The game only spikes up when it introduces super buffed up enemies like Spawn of Rovagug, Lantern King, or crit/sneak immune stuff like worm man. Think about that for a second.

 

[Yosharian]

So what you're saying is, balance in a singleplayer game is more important than the fun of allowing me to craft my own items

gotcha

 

[Pink Eye]

So what you're saying is, balance in a singleplayer game is more important than the fun of allowing me to craft my own items

gotcha

No. You are free to do whatever you want to do. Just don't sit here and tell me that crafting mod is balanced.

 

[Desiderius]

I know that my Redeemer liveth!

Guess your lands just weren't thriving enough Hap. Pretty much obligated to have Tristian use that one.

One last go with Incomparable Petal:



Yeah, yeah, Linzi, we've heard it all before.

Was kind of a waste spending four feats on Crane Wing and not using it. Spellstrike hasn't been very good with his lousy Scion DCs. Looking forward to Frightful Aspect tying everything together next level.

 

[Pink Eye]

Lucky fooking bastard!

 

[Ramnozack]

Interesting. For mere 20k i can make it almost as good as the best melee weapons in game(Vanquisher, Bane of the Living, Blinding Light). Not sure what to think.
On one hand i understand that special merc is needed in addition to 20k, so it is not that simple. On another i now understand 'gamebreaking' point.

Meh, it costs 78% of the cost of the weapon itself (around 160% for tabletop prices) and requires a caster around level 14 to make with the prereq feats. You should have access to powerful weapons before this point.

Hmm. In the main game you can accumulate so much gold it's simply ridiculous. 20k might not seem a lot to you, but trust me, you can easily go over 2 million gold in the game. So, by dropping a mere 20k gold, you can easily get a powerful weapon. It does sound game breaking.

+2 on one weapon is not 'gamebreaking'. Again this is just basic pnp crafting. Your complaint lies not with the crafting itself, but with the design of the game and the insane amount of money and time it throws at you.

 

[Ramnozack]

See I don't think you do, as you keep bringing up irrelevant topics.

(1) What is this 'about' you keep bringing up? And cool, you dont use some of the best abilities available to a magus, just proves my point you lack understanding of the Pathfinder system.

(2) Again, basic crafting is not 'gamebreaking' you are, again, showing your lack of knowledge of the Pathfinder system. Magus gets his enchants for free and doesn't have to spend time, gold, and feats in order to enchant his weapon, he can do it on the fly. That is useful early game, but as time progresses it becomes much less relevant, especially since this game literally throws hundreds of thousands of coins and months of free time at you. Your problem with basic PNP crafting is in actuality a criticism of the design of this particular game and the magus class, not with crafting itself, which has long since predated both the magus and any other class with weapon enchanting abilities in PNP D&D/Pathfinder.

You said that Spellstrike is "about" the only thing that mattered. I quoted you as saying Spellstrike was the only thing that mattered and you shit your pants. Evidently relevant to you.

We all lack understanding of the Pathfinder System. That's what makes it great. You lack in this area far surpasses mine.

So this all boils down to more PnP butthurt. I feel for you man, truly. But you're missing a great game in it's own right.

I'll grant that your point (2) has some validity, but it does not follow that weapon enchanting is superfluous prior to endgame.

1. You intentionally misquoted me because you were butthurt and you fucked up.

2. Don't project your stupidity onto me.

3. I'm not the one butthurt about basic PNP mechanics in a game based on a PNP game. And I'm not missing anything I'm playing Kingmaker as we speak.

4. Thanks for the compliment bud, but wrong again on the second part. Enchanting is not relegated to 'endgame', its gated entirely by your knowledge arcana. The DC for crafting/enchanting an item increases by five for every requirement you don't meet and for every level below the required caster level for the specified enchantment. So if you invest more into your knowledge arcana skill feat wise, you can create more powerful items earlier in the game. So crafting powerful items is by no means restricted to the late game, it's quite feasible to craft decent items by early-mid game.
Magus enchanting is fine, it is just generic weapon enchantments after all, but the reason I say it is superfluous is because, again, you can get the same effects from craft magic arms and armor permanently without using a per-rest resource that can be used on other abilities, of course this requires a feat, gold, and time cost (and it can get quite expensive to create top-tier items for everyone in your party, to expensive in-fact if you want to buy BP or any of the powerful unique items from Pitax) that the magus does not have to pay.

Jesus, this level of mendacity and stupidity hurts my brain.

Ignore.

Can't defend his points and backs out like a bitch. Desiderius everyone.

 

[Desiderius]

All ten masterpieces by Curse 6. Rushing Divine for Circles looking pretty good.

 

[Ramnozack]

So what you're saying is, balance in a singleplayer game is more important than the fun of allowing me to craft my own items

gotcha

All of this butthurt is because that I dared to suggest magus weapon enchanting wasn't as good and unique as they thought it was. Now suddenly DnD shouldn't have crafting because it lessens their favorite class.

 

[Desiderius]

Sure, but crafting items is fun! And doesn't exactly break the game. I can add 1d6 cold damage to Perfection, oh noooo game is broken!

If it creates one super class to rule them all that is obviously better than the alternatives, then yes that is exactly what it does. If you're saying crafting is too weak to challenge Weapon Enchanting and thus Spellstrike isn't the only thing that matters (Dimension Strike really doesn't) for SS then congrats you've gotten all the way back to (about a fifth of - Canny Defense, Initiative, Perfect Crit, etc also matter) our original point and Ramnuts is wrong. As usual.

The essence of the game is it's multidimensionality which (in my mind, by design) undermines the usual reductionist min-maxxer "X is the (about - see pointless caveat) only thing that matters" attempted pwns.

 

[Yosharian]

Sure, but crafting items is fun! And doesn't exactly break the game. I can add 1d6 cold damage to Perfection, oh noooo game is broken!

If it creates one super class to rule them all that is obviously better than the alternatives, then yes that is exactly what it does. If you're saying crafting is too weak to challenge Weapon Enchanting and thus Spellstrike isn't the only thing that matters (Dimension Strike really doesn't) for SS then congrats you've gotten all the way back to (about a fifth of - Canny Defense, Initiative, Perfect Crit, etc also matter) our original point and Ramnuts is wrong. As usual.

The essence of the game is it's multidimensionality which (in my mind, by design) undermines the usual reductionist min-maxxer "X is the (about - see pointless caveat) only thing that matters" attempted pwns.

I'm not saying that? I'm just saying that I don't think it's necessarily broken if I can add a couple more minor enchants to an already-good item.

 

[Haplo]

Sure, but crafting items is fun! And doesn't exactly break the game. I can add 1d6 cold damage to Perfection, oh noooo game is broken!

If it creates one super class to rule them all that is obviously better than the alternatives, then yes that is exactly what it does. If you're saying crafting is too weak to challenge Weapon Enchanting and thus Spellstrike isn't the only thing that matters (Dimension Strike really doesn't) for SS then congrats you've gotten all the way back to (about a fifth of - Canny Defense, Initiative, Perfect Crit, etc also matter) our original point and Ramnuts is wrong. As usual.

The essence of the game is it's multidimensionality which (in my mind, by design) undermines the usual reductionist min-maxxer "X is the (about - see pointless caveat) only thing that matters" attempted pwns.

I'm not saying that? I'm just saying that I don't think it's necessarily broken if I can add a couple more minor enchants to an already-good item.

No, it's not an "already good" item. It's an item most sane DMs would hesitate to hand out to their players already. And you want to add "a couple minor enchants to it".
Like say, Holy Axiomatic, I suppose? Or Fey + Undead Bane? Is Ghost Touch available?

 

[Yosharian]

Sure, but crafting items is fun! And doesn't exactly break the game. I can add 1d6 cold damage to Perfection, oh noooo game is broken!

If it creates one super class to rule them all that is obviously better than the alternatives, then yes that is exactly what it does. If you're saying crafting is too weak to challenge Weapon Enchanting and thus Spellstrike isn't the only thing that matters (Dimension Strike really doesn't) for SS then congrats you've gotten all the way back to (about a fifth of - Canny Defense, Initiative, Perfect Crit, etc also matter) our original point and Ramnuts is wrong. As usual.

The essence of the game is it's multidimensionality which (in my mind, by design) undermines the usual reductionist min-maxxer "X is the (about - see pointless caveat) only thing that matters" attempted pwns.

I'm not saying that? I'm just saying that I don't think it's necessarily broken if I can add a couple more minor enchants to an already-good item.

No, it's not an "already good" item. It's an item most sane DMs would hesitate to hand out to their players already. And you want to add "a couple minor enchants to it". Like say, Holy Axiomatic, I suppose? Or Fey + Undead Bane?

I dunno, I haven't used the mod yet lol

 

[Haplo]

No, there already exist powerful items, possibly too strong.
What you're doing is equalizing access/properties and making core itemization of little consequence.

Yes, cos Kingmaker's items were so balanced before this mod came along =)

They were certainly not.
But someone designed their pool, made certain equipment choices matter.

The mod is pushing the imbalance further AND making those equipment choices largely meaningless.


The only kind of crafting I enjoy in these kinds of games is Deadfire style crafting - with exclusive special property development paths for each unique item - which add to its uniqueness, rather then equalizing everything.

 

[Cael]

The original PnP crafting is gated by caster level. You can't even get a +3 weapon until you are caster level 9 minimum, for example. When you are talking AC 72 or to-hit bonuses of +50, +3 is a drop in the ocean...

 

[Yosharian]

I.e. fucking boring

 

[Pink Eye]

This item has to be a trap, right?

 

[ArchAngel]

It is a trap because it gives only +2 con in strength slot