Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Getting close to finishing up my main campaign. I'm thinking I'll play a vivisectionist or slayer for my next character. Don't want to be a kensai.

Do I have to pick a motherless tiefling? That extra bite attack will probably be used several thousand times through the campaign it is almost too good to pass up.

Tieflings are really gay though I don't want to be one. It is alright for a girl but it isn't manly for a king. Maybe an Elf (drow) or Human (can use the extra feat for an exotic proficiency and use the Spazz Matticus portrait).

Really it is a big consideration to take for such a long campaign. I want to stick strictly to a high difficulty so no rerolling characters so I get the achievement.

You only get that bite if:

(1) You've haven't moved that turn

(2) You haven't killed the mob yet with all your other attacks

(3) The mob hasn't killed you yet

On the harder difficulties (1) and (2) often preclude (3), so it will be more like a few hundred at most, not several thousand

If you're the kind of person who asks questions like "Do I have to pick x?" then your answer is no, it's not optimal without a lot of work to make it so.

Play Human Ranged Slayer. At range neither (1) or (2) above are necessary, making (3) much more likely. You can use Combat Style Feats to get TWF if you like spamming attacks, but the items are underwhelming.

 

[Haplo]

Octavia: He gives her 2 useless Alchemist levels, when the cardinal rule of building full casters is "Thou shalt not lose caster level needlessly".

I don't like Disintegrate much, it offers a saving throw as opposed to pretty much all other ray spells. But its capable of very good damage - possibly best, were the sneak attacks for other multi-ray spells not bugged.

And I definitely see value in going 2nd alchemist end game. Cognatogen +4 Int is +2 spell DC (and some extra spells)... often beats a Caster Level.

 

[Desiderius]

Octavia: He gives her 2 useless Alchemist levels, when the cardinal rule of building full casters is "Thou shalt not lose caster level needlessly".

I don't like Disintegrate much, it offers a saving throw as opposed to pretty much all other ray spells. But its capable of very good damage - possibly best, were the sneak attacks for other multi-ray spells not bugged.

And I definitely see value in going 2nd alchemist end game. Cognatogen +4 Int is +2 spell DC (and some extra spells)... often beats a Caster Level.

Caster Level does a ton of work (missing Spell Pen = zero dam, missing DC can still do damage depending with all the sneaks, four more rounds of Vitals/Haste/GInvis, another Hellfire Ray) and there are other opportunity costs. Plus you're only getting 20 min on that mutagen at lvl 2. Splashing for stats is almost always bad with all the stat bloat.

Only exception might be caster stats, but it's close. I've always been underwhelmed.

 

[Nerevar]

Ranged slayer seems like a cool meme but I want to use a melee weapon (or two) just so I can make the most of some of the good loot in the game.

This "freebooter" seems good what does it do? Give party wide ab bonus on hit like a slayer? That seems good to combine them.

I was thinking of doing 1 Scaled fist/1 Aldori Defender/18 Vivisectionist or something like that and using dueling swords, or picking another weapon or dual wielding and picking 2 Scaled fist/ 2 Pal/ 16 Vivi. Really don't know I'll mess around and see. I'm sure there is a good Vivi build out there somewhere.

 

[Desiderius]

the good loot in the game.

The game has so many great bows it's hard to find enough ranged attackers to use them all. I switched that toon to Eldritch Scoundrel to use the artisan bow that gives you +4 sacred DEX (anticipating the lvl 20 Scoundrel ability I never made it to). Still a great bow.

I'll mess around and see.

That's the whole point.

Enjoy

 

[Haplo]

Octavia: He gives her 2 useless Alchemist levels, when the cardinal rule of building full casters is "Thou shalt not lose caster level needlessly".

I don't like Disintegrate much, it offers a saving throw as opposed to pretty much all other ray spells. But its capable of very good damage - possibly best, were the sneak attacks for other multi-ray spells not bugged.

And I definitely see value in going 2nd alchemist end game. Cognatogen +4 Int is +2 spell DC (and some extra spells)... often beats a Caster Level.

Caster Level does a ton of work (missing Spell Pen = zero dam, missing DC can still do damage depending with all the sneaks, four more rounds of Vitals/Haste/GInvis, another Hellfire Ray) and there are other opportunity costs. Plus you're only getting 20 min on that mutagen at lvl 2. Splashing for stats is almost always bad with all the stat bloat.

Only exception might be caster stats, but it's close. I've always been underwhelmed.

Actually the opportunity cost is just 1 Caster Level. You've already paid the other 1 to access Arcane Trickster. If you use mods, you may even recover that CL.

 

[Desiderius]

Actually the opportunity cost is just 1 Caster Level. You've already paid the other 1 to access Arcane Trickster. If you use mods, you may even recover that CL.

So Spell Pen adds up different caster lvls from different classes? Good to know, lol. Let me test that.

Still lose out on durations/spells/extra rays/damage dice and the like.

 

[Haplo]

Well, I suppose. As long as these are Prestige Classes that progress the base caster class...

If you mean adding alchemist CL on top of Wizard CL, then no.

 

[Xamenos]

Octavia: He gives her 2 useless Alchemist levels, when the cardinal rule of building full casters is "Thou shalt not lose caster level needlessly".

I don't like Disintegrate much, it offers a saving throw as opposed to pretty much all other ray spells. But its capable of very good damage - possibly best, were the sneak attacks for other multi-ray spells not bugged.

And I definitely see value in going 2nd alchemist end game. Cognatogen +4 Int is +2 spell DC (and some extra spells)... often beats a Caster Level.

Caster Level does a ton of work (missing Spell Pen = zero dam, missing DC can still do damage depending with all the sneaks, four more rounds of Vitals/Haste/GInvis, another Hellfire Ray) and there are other opportunity costs. Plus you're only getting 20 min on that mutagen at lvl 2. Splashing for stats is almost always bad with all the stat bloat.

Only exception might be caster stats, but it's close. I've always been underwhelmed.

Actually the opportunity cost is just 1 Caster Level. You've already paid the other 1 to access Arcane Trickster. If you use mods, you may even recover that CL.

InEffect takes the 2 Vivisectionist levels IN ADDITION to her 1 Rogue level. Which make sense, as she starts as a rogue 1 wizard 1. His Octavia will end the game as a Wizard 17, when a normal Octavia would have been a Wizard 19. The spell DC doesn't matter f she's spamming rays without a save, as she should, the extra spells she gets from the cognatogen cannot be used as she's a wizard and cannot rest to prepare spells in them, and she misses out Spell Penetration, duration AND extra spells per day that another caster level will give you.

It MIGHT have been worth it for an MC who used the Vivisectionist Sneak Attack to qualify for Arcane Trickster, but this is not what's happening here. And even then I'd say the extra caster level is better.

 

[Haplo]

I disagree about 1 CL being better if you already have picked Vivi. I'd 100% take Cognatogen.
And IMO you should generally NOT spam Scorching/Hellfire Rays at level 20. With Surprise spells you should instead be spamming Stormbolts, Vulcanic Eruptions, Stone Calls, maybe some Chain Lightnings and (Delayed) Fireballs.

Which means spell DCs are relevant. Also for CC.

 

[Shadenuat]

Also spell resistance in game is generally either easily pened or is so high you might not bother. But at the same time you have spells which just ignore spell resistance so it's not an issue.

 

[Desiderius]

Also spell resistance in game is generally either easily pened or is so high you might not bother. But at the same time you have spells which just ignore spell resistance so it's not an issue.

You can get there with items/feats if you want. The same could be said for Unfair DCs. Pretty much only spell I cast in combat Pitax and after was Dispel Magic (Greater) 26 last playthrough.

 

[Xamenos]

I disagree about 1 CL being better if you already have picked Vivi. I'd 100% take Cognatogen.
And IMO you should generally NOT spam Scorching/Hellfire Rays at level 20. With Surprise spells you should instead be spamming Stormbolts, Vulcanic Eruptions, Stone Calls, maybe some Chain Lightnings and (Delayed) Fireballs.

Which means spell DCs are relevant. Also for CC.

This is a separate discussion than the one about InEffect's builds though. I still don't think losing 1 CL and the spells per day is worth it, but it's a more defensible position than losing 2 CLs for the same benefit.

 

[Pink Eye]

Also spell resistance in game is generally either easily pened or is so high you might not bother. But at the same time you have spells which just ignore spell resistance so it's not an issue.

Eh. Spell Resistance is actually an issue when applying buffs to allies.

 

[Ninjerk]

I don't know shit about character building in Pathfinder and I'm kind of just winging it, but this game is really doing it for me just when I thought maybe I didn't give a shit about video games in general. I killed

Spoiler

Tartuccio

in the

Spoiler

Old Sycamore

yesterday after he fireball spammed my party into submission (I took a rogue level on my bard and I think I must have saved against it for no damage a couple times or something). This game (so far) is delivering on everything I felt I missed out on in PoE (reserving judgement on Deadfire).

By the way, when does Greater Restoration actually become available?

 

[NJClaw]

I don't know shit about character building in Pathfinder and I'm kind of just winging it, but this game is really doing it for me just when I thought maybe I didn't give a shit about video games in general. I killed

Spoiler

Tartuccio

in the

Spoiler

Old Sycamore

yesterday after he fireball spammed my party into submission (I took a rogue level on my bard and I think I must have saved against it for no damage a couple times or something). This game (so far) is delivering on everything I felt I missed out on in PoE (reserving judgement on Deadfire).

By the way, when does Greater Restoration actually become available?

What do you need Greater Restoration for? If you need to remove the Death's Door condition, you just need to rest in your bedroom.

 

[Efe]

jhod and arsinoe should have every priest scroll in your capital

 

[Ninjerk]

I don't know shit about character building in Pathfinder and I'm kind of just winging it, but this game is really doing it for me just when I thought maybe I didn't give a shit about video games in general. I killed

Spoiler

Tartuccio

in the

Spoiler

Old Sycamore

yesterday after he fireball spammed my party into submission (I took a rogue level on my bard and I think I must have saved against it for no damage a couple times or something). This game (so far) is delivering on everything I felt I missed out on in PoE (reserving judgement on Deadfire).

By the way, when does Greater Restoration actually become available?

What do you need Greater Restoration for? If you need to remove the Death's Door condition, you just need to rest in your bedroom.

It says in the tooltip I need to visit a healer in the capital city or use Greater Restoration.

 

[Ninjerk]

Efe I haven't killed the Stag Lord yet and Jhod doesn't sell Greater Restoration as a scroll.

 

[Xamenos]

For Death's Door? You have a bedroom on the top floor at Oleg's. You can rest there.

 

[Efe]

Ninjerk you are not talking to him in your capital if you havent killed stag lord yet

 

[NJClaw]

It says in the tooltip I need to visit a healer in the capital city or use Greater Restoration.

Efe I haven't killed the Stag Lord yet and Jhod doesn't sell Greater Restoration as a scroll.

Try to rest in your bedroom at Oleg's post

 

[Desiderius]

Also spell resistance in game is generally either easily pened or is so high you might not bother. But at the same time you have spells which just ignore spell resistance so it's not an issue.

Eh. Spell Resistance is actually an issue when applying buffs to allies.

I think that was fixed in one of the last updates?

 

[Desiderius]

It says in the tooltip I need to visit a healer in the capital city or use Greater Restoration.

Efe I haven't killed the Stag Lord yet and Jhod doesn't sell Greater Restoration as a scroll.

Try to rest in your bedroom at Oleg's post

This is why they nerfed Blindness. Let's hope they'll trust the new tutorial and don't end up facerollizing WotR.

 

[111111111]