Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

Ultimately the game is broken from a difficulty perspective because enemy casters don't have time to buff themselves properly and enemies generally don't have sufficient AI to pose a threat.

 

[Yosharian]

And honestly the latter half of this game is filled with terrible design decisions that make you want to tear your hair out. Hopefully Owlcat learn from their mistakes with Wrath (Fabulously Optimistic)

 

[Sjukob]

Please suggest some good balance of difficulty settings. Normal is too easy, especially now in turn based mode. I have all damage set to normal values, reduced critical damage on party is on, and no bonuses to enemy ability scores. What should I bump.

I'm not even trying to optimize, multiclass or anything. My main char is a pure rogue - no munchkinisms.

>Doesn't it have the same sliders Kingmaker does?
Yes. It does. In spite of that, if you're playing below hard, enemies will get killed in one hit by you. If you're playing above hard, simply maxing the difficulty settings. Enemies will one hit *you* to death. There's no middle ground. It's either stupid easy mode, or super dice rolling simulator. Kingmaker was like this too. It's like playing a silly hack and slash game, instead of a tactics game.

Truth be told, there just isn't one. Relax and enjoy your powertrip.

 

[Sykar]

Ultimately the game is broken from a difficulty perspective because enemy casters don't have time to buff themselves properly and enemies generally don't have sufficient AI to pose a threat.

That is a common problem among most cRPGs though.

 

[Desiderius]

There’s a progressive difficulty mod that’s perfect. Or you can do it yourself. If it’s a dice rolling simulator for you you’ve got improvement to look forward to.

The sliders are lost in translation or something but if you just go Challenging to Hard to Unfair as game gets too easy it’s fine. You’ve just got to be a little more careful on Unfair and if you don’t like that you can turn double damage off and keep everything else Unfair.

 

[Nano]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/5/2972902451415804796/

^ This bug was apparently added in patch 2.1.0. Meaning Owlcat had several opportunities to fix it and didn't.

 

[Yosharian]

Ultimately the game is broken from a difficulty perspective because enemy casters don't have time to buff themselves properly and enemies generally don't have sufficient AI to pose a threat.

That is a common problem among most cRPGs though.

Perhaps, but there's no reason to keep putting up with it in 2021. Fucking innovate already you cunts.

Also I hate to bring it up every fucking time but BG2 has plenty of Mage encounters where the enemy pretty much always gets up their key buffs on time and presents a challenge as result.

20 years ago designers figured out how to use spell triggers to design challenging boss encounters but in 2021 it's too much work apparently

I mean for fuck's sake Vordakai just dropped in TWO HITS in my game yesterday and that's with Insane stat boosts.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Yosharian Part of the problem with Vordekai is that there really aren't any good spell protections in PFKM. Mirror Image is great, but doesn't cut it. BG2 mages actually had defenses that were worth a damn.

 

[Xamenos]

Yosharian Part of the problem with Vordekai is that there really aren't any good spell protections in PFKM. Mirror Image is great, but doesn't cut it. BG2 mages actually had defenses that were worth a damn.

Mirror Image is excellent, but you really think it's the only protection an L9 lich wizard has access to?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Yosharian Part of the problem with Vordekai is that there really aren't any good spell protections in PFKM. Mirror Image is great, but doesn't cut it. BG2 mages actually had defenses that were worth a damn.

Mirror Image is excellent, but you really think it's the only protection an L9 lich wizard has access to?

Mirror Image is great for a Level 2 spell. That's the best Kingmaker has outside of Improved Invisbility and Displacement, which are damn near the same thing. Did you even play Baldur's Gate 2? Mirror Image is a poor man's version of 2E Stoneskin. No mantle spells. No Absolute Immunity. No Protection from Magic Weapons. No Mislead. No Teleportation Field. That's just rattling spells off-the-cuff for mitigating melee attacks from 2E, of which pathfinder has 3E equivalents. As far as 3E goes, they don't even have Ghostly Visage, Shadow Shield, or Premonition. Do I need to carry on with spell protections? PFKM has exceedingly few good defensive arcane spells, which is why Mirror Image gets so frequently mentioned.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/216

somebody is making encounter overhaul for KM

from what I see it changes the spell list of enemies

for example in Tatuk battle instead of nuking his own kobold with fireball directly, Tatuk instead will caste Haste, Blur, Mirror Image, before actually Fireballing you so the small little bugger kobold actaullys is a threat

 

[ERYFKRAD]

kobold actaullys is a threat

Preposterous, I say.

 

[The_Mask]

No offense, but in turn-based, if he doesn't nuke the field with that fireball 1st round, he's eating dirt by the 2nd. Not sure who thinks has better ideas, but they probably shouldn't think they do.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

No offense, but in turn-based, if he doesn't nuke the field with that fireball 1st round, he's eating dirt by the 2nd. Not sure who thinks has better ideas, but they probably shouldn't think they do.

game is designed around rtwp and so is this mod

complaining about TB is moot when the game is not even considering it design wise

 

[Desiderius]

No offense, but in turn-based, if he doesn't nuke the field with that fireball 1st round, he's eating dirt by the 2nd. Not sure who thinks has better ideas, but they probably shouldn't think they do.

game is designed around rtwp and so is this mod

complaining about TB is moot when the game is not even considering it design wise

Doesn't matter. Anyone who has discovered the Charge button knows that the fight comes down to whether your charge gets there or the fireball goes off. No Fireball means easy fight.

 

[Yosharian]

Heaven forbid he starts the fucking encounter pre-buffed, Owlcat plz

 

[Sarkile]

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/216

somebody is making encounter overhaul for KM

from what I see it changes the spell list of enemies

for example in Tatuk battle instead of nuking his own kobold with fireball directly, Tatuk instead will caste Haste, Blur, Mirror Image, before actually Fireballing you so the small little bugger kobold actaullys is a threat

I actually thought the Fireball reflected Tartuccio's contempt for the Kobolds and was intentional to his character.

 

[Parabalus]

If you choose Vordakai, do you just miss out on all the imported Varnhold's Lot items?

Any straightforward way to work around this?

Not just adding the items, but visiting Lostlarn too.

Yosharian Part of the problem with Vordekai is that there really aren't any good spell protections in PFKM. Mirror Image is great, but doesn't cut it. BG2 mages actually had defenses that were worth a damn.

Mirror Image is excellent, but you really think it's the only protection an L9 lich wizard has access to?

Mirror Image is great for a Level 2 spell. That's the best Kingmaker has outside of Improved Invisbility and Displacement, which are damn near the same thing. Did you even play Baldur's Gate 2? Mirror Image is a poor man's version of 2E Stoneskin. No mantle spells. No Absolute Immunity. No Protection from Magic Weapons. No Mislead. No Teleportation Field. That's just rattling spells off-the-cuff for mitigating melee attacks from 2E, of which pathfinder has 3E equivalents. As far as 3E goes, they don't even have Ghostly Visage, Shadow Shield, or Premonition. Do I need to carry on with spell protections? PFKM has exceedingly few good defensive arcane spells, which is why Mirror Image gets so frequently mentioned.

On the flip side it was a bit of a downer when bosses were inferior to random high-level spellcaster trash mobs. KM goes to the opposite extreme, some middle ground would be ideal.

 

[Yosharian]

Quickened Mirror Image alone would make boss encounters so much harder. I'm sure Vordakai has a bunch of level 5 spell slots. All he has to do is last MORE THAN ONE ROUND and it will be a boost to his effectiveness.

Also he should have rods to auto-quicken anyway, not that that even works properly in RTWP mode as far as I can tell

 

[Nano]

It seems Holic agrees with the people saying blaster mages are underpowered. From CotW's new 'balance fixing' component:

Damage/Healing die of spells and abilities is increased by one step (by 2 steps if it was greater than d6).

 

[Sjukob]

Quickened Mirror Image alone would make boss encounters so much harder. I'm sure Vordakai has a bunch of level 5 spell slots. All he has to do is last MORE THAN ONE ROUND and it will be a boost to his effectiveness.

Also he should have rods to auto-quicken anyway, not that that even works properly in RTWP mode as far as I can tell

I don't think that mirror image, even quickened version, would help him much, because dispel exists. It would just mean that instead of CCing and killing right away, you dispel and go ham. He would still die in the first round.

 

[Delterius]

give horagnanon a wand of mirror image

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Quickened Mirror Image alone would make boss encounters so much harder. I'm sure Vordakai has a bunch of level 5 spell slots. All he has to do is last MORE THAN ONE ROUND and it will be a boost to his effectiveness.

Also he should have rods to auto-quicken anyway, not that that even works properly in RTWP mode as far as I can tell

I don't think that mirror image, even quickened version, would help him much, because dispel exists. It would just mean that instead of CCing and killing right away, you dispel and go ham. He would still die in the first round.

Depends on the DC as well. They also need to buff up his CL, give him a lot of quickened spells as well. They also need to give him mobs guarding him. Singular Big Bad Evil Guy stopped being a threat at certain levels in PF because action economy wise they can't compete. Give something like Royal Cyclops Guardian or something, 5 of them, each being Level 15 Fighter or something.

 

[Desiderius]

If you choose Vordakai, do you just miss out on all the imported Varnhold's Lot items?

Any straightforward way to work around this?

Not just adding the items, but visiting Lostlarn too.

Don't choose Vordokai.

Do the crime do the time.

 

[Desiderius]

Quickened Mirror Image alone would make boss encounters so much harder. I'm sure Vordakai has a bunch of level 5 spell slots. All he has to do is last MORE THAN ONE ROUND and it will be a boost to his effectiveness.

Also he should have rods to auto-quicken anyway, not that that even works properly in RTWP mode as far as I can tell

I don't think that mirror image, even quickened version, would help him much, because dispel exists. It would just mean that instead of CCing and killing right away, you dispel and go ham. He would still die in the first round.

Depends on the DC as well. They also need to buff up his CL, give him a lot of quickened spells as well. They also need to give him mobs guarding him. Singular Big Bad Evil Guy stopped being a threat at certain levels in PF because action economy wise they can't compete. Give something like Royal Cyclops Guardian or something, 5 of them, each being Level 15 Fighter or something.

Zecharias is casting multiple spells per round one way or another. Vord just needs to be prebuffed. He has the Oculus for fuck sake.

The mobs guarding him are the whole freaking dungeon. It's no pushover.